States urged to impose total ban on mobile phone use in cars

[balthazarr]

From http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...07-1aite.html:

States urged to impose total ban on mobile phone use in cars
Nicky Phillips
February 7, 2011

TOUGH new laws to ban all mobile phone use in vehicles are being considered by transport ministers after a landmark report found that even hands-free devices dramatically increased the risk of crashing.

The report by state transport heads reflects the growing concern about distraction to drivers involved in accidents.

It found: ''Mobile phone use produces a significant increase in casualty crash risk, regardless of whether the phone is hand-held or hands-free.''

The draft national road safety report comes amid a dramatic rise in the number of people fined for using a phone when behind the wheel, which has become one of the fastest-growing driving offences in the state.

Last financial year almost 50,000 drivers were fined more than $11 million for calling, texting, reaching, even touching their phone while driving - more than double the number fined six years ago.

The aim is to reduce annual road deaths by 30 per cent during the next decade.

The draft, which federal and state ministers are reviewing, stated: ''There is evidence to support bans on all mobile phone use while driving.'' The federal parliamentary secretary for infrastructure and transport, Catherine King, said on average 1500 people died on Australian roads each year.

''We've come to the conclusion that we are going to have to do things differently if we are going to get that road toll lower,'' she said.

Ms King acknowledged it would be difficult for many people to stop using hands-free phones so the first step of the strategy would be to encourage drivers of heavy vehicles, buses, taxis and government cars to stop using the phone hands-free voluntarily.

NSW Police supported a ban. ''In my view it is as dangerous as speed and drink driving,'' said Superintendent Max Mitchell, the acting assistant commissioner, traffic services branch. During the past decade research has clearly demonstrated that drivers using mobile phones are at least four times more likely to have an accident.

In 2006 US researchers found that being distracted by a mobile phone was the equivalent of having a blood-alcohol level of 0.08, which is considered over the limit in every Australian state.

In NSW, being caught handling a mobile phone will earn a driver a $258 fine and three demerit points.

But many believe this does not go far enough. In US state of Utah, a driver caught texting can receive a three-month jail sentence and a $US750 fine. If they injure or kill someone they could go to jail for 15 years.

Mark Stevenson, an epidemiologist who studies driving distractions, said allowing hands-free phone use to remain legal sent the wrong message.

Several of his studies, including one examining the number of people admitted to hospital after a mobile phone-related crash, had shown using a phone hands-free carried almost the same crash risk as using it hand held. ''We are very aware of the risks associated with using your phone,'' said Professor Stevenson, from the Monash University accident research centre.

He called for more drastic intervention and tougher penalties. ''Vehicles could be manufactured with in-built blockers so drivers cannot receive phone reception when the car is turned on.''

In cases of emergency, drivers could switch off the engine to make a phone call, he said.

An online survey of Victorian drivers found almost 60 per cent of people who owned a mobile phone admit using it while driving. The leader of the research, Kristie Young, said most people recognised that using a phone while driving was dangerous.

''But drivers seem to have this optimistic bias where they don't think it will happen to them, or they are better than the average driver,'' said Dr Young, a research fellow at the accident research centre.

''Drivers have this really low perception that they are going to be caught,'' she said.

So what's next? Banning the driver from carrying on a conversation in the car? No passengers (which they already do for certain P platers)?

[aussie muscle]

yeah, what's the difference between talking to someone in the car or someone on a phone? how do police tell if someone in a car is talking on a hands-free or just singing along to the music or even talking to themselves?

[El Venom]

Are they going to ban CB/UHF raidos? How are they any different than using a phone. I have built in hands free in our Pajero and phone calls are handled automatically and all I have to do is talk. They claim that talking is a distraction but a gps, uhf, cd player and many things that are standard on cars these days could also be considered a distraction as well, especially to people learning to drive and people with recently purchased/ unfarmilar vehicles. If this happens where will it end. This is as bad as trying to ban bullbars/nudge bars.

[Rockape]

Why don't we just get to the place they really want and ban the car all together. Starting to get sick of the ban this ban that mentality of our Gov.

[Seduce XR6]

This has to be the most stupid thing I have seen in recent times.
Why is it stupid, well because while I support a ban & fines for people using Mobile phones which are not hands free I DO NOT support a ban on all mobile use in cars including... hands free which I have & can use easily & still give the traffic & the road my full concentration.
If something happens like a truck coming too close etc I just stop talking as safety comes first.
I would say just a sec & then continue after danger was over or just stop talking straight away.
So I dont want my mobile use banned as it is safe for me just because others cant talk & drive at the same time lol
Ban the bad drivers & solve some of the issues!
I mean why should the people who can do this or that (safely) not be allowed because some others cant!
Maybe we should all be tested to see who can operate a hands free safely & who cant lol
So those who pass can use them & those who cant cannot.
Just as to get your license in the first place should be more about who can actually handle a vehicle in tricky situations without losing the plot & making stupid mistakes as a result of panicking etc & not just who can park the best

PS: I will keep using my phone on handsfree regardless

[pottery beige]

bring it on.. just another ****ant nanny state rule i'm happy to break......

[Revolver]

I totally agree.

Mobile phones are dangerous, speeding, arm on the window sill, radio on to listen traffic reports, & perving at the hot traffic controller at road works. ALL distractions are dangerous. Everything outside hands on the wheel or gearstick, eyes-on-the-speedo-only is the only way to drive....

[flappist]

I would not panic too much.

It is a report done by a self important nutter of the "scruby klan" that will be looked at and then thrown away.

FAR too many votes to lose over this one as Austrailia has the highest mobile phone usage per head of population in the world. Like the "cash for clunkers" and the "get old cars off the road" ideas they just cannot be made viable in the 21st century.

No one ever seems to put forward an idea like "lets train peope to do this" or "make answering a handsfree call part of the driving test".

I wonder why.......

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

...
So I dont want my mobile use banned as it is safe for me just because others cant talk & drive at the same time lol
Ban the bad drivers & solve some of the issues!
I mean why should the people who can do this or that (safely) not be allowed because some others cant!
...

This.

It's a pity that things continually get dumbed down to the lowest common denominator... oh, 0.001% of the population can't safely handle talking (on hands-free) and driving at the same time... well, then, ban it altogether. As for the 99.999% of you that can... Statistics! Look! Look at the figures! Think of the children...

[LTDHO]

On a serious note, I tend to agree. We all did fine 20 years ago without the need to chat on the phone whilst driving.
I've spoken to people on the phone who miss turn offs, etc because they were paying attention to the phone call and not the road.
It's easier to zone out of a conversation with someone in the car then on the phone, being on the phone takes more concentration. (At least in my opinion)

Sure there will be the argument of “Well if ya ban phones, why not ban CB’s”

No answer for that, perhaps it’s the primary/intended use of each?

Simply, drivers do not pay enough attention to the road and surroundings.

[Kingsley]

I'm not overly concerned about people using phones. However Saturday afternoon I was rounded up by a red P-Plater female in a 90's model Toyota on the F3 trying to text and drive. She was holding the phone against the steering wheel with one hand and typing with the other. I was sitting on around 117 (yes, I'm naughty) however she was so engaged in what she was doing she was weaving all over the joint. If I was sitting on 117 she would've been in the 125+ zone. Even though I never use my phone while driving (if it's important enough they'll ring back) it never bothered me too much about others doing it until I saw this on Saturday. It's this 'low end common denominator' that these laws are aimed at. We need better driver education.

[munners]

So do you ban having a conversation with the passenger in your car as well? Surely that would have to be equally as distracting? What about when little kids in the back seat want to talk to you? That can be distracting.
If you have some discipline and make an effort to focus on how you are driving... no wait. That would involve taking responsibility for your own actions... Forget it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

On a serious note, I tend to agree. We all did fine 20 years ago without the need to chat on the phone whilst driving.
I've spoken to people on the phone who miss turn offs, etc because they were paying attention to the phone call and not the road.
It's easier to zone out of a conversation with someone in the car then on the phone, being on the phone takes more concentration. (At least in my opinion)

Sure there will be the argument of “Well if ya ban phones, why not ban CB’s”

No answer for that, perhaps it’s the primary/intended use of each?

Simply, drivers do not pay enough attention to the road and surroundings.

And we also did fine 40 years ago without music in cars, air conditioning, satnav, automatic transmissions and full size cars with 100kw engines.....

So maybe we should completely ban car sound OUTRIGHT so as to remove distractions and ban all cars over 100kw to reduce all the speed problems.....

[Rodp]

As someone often required to talk on the phone while driving, I'm actually all for them being banned. I know it takes a portion of my focus from driving as I'm usually required to answer difficult technical questions and diagnose difficult problems while driving. I tend to go in auto-pilot mode and quite often will miss a turn on a road if it's a road I travel often and the turn off I take is one I don't normally take.

I'm nowhere near as distracted when I drive with the missus in the car. She can also see the road ahead and can keep quiet in a time where the conditions I'm currently driving in require more focus - a person on the other end of a phone cannot.

[nstg8a]

we should just ban people. save all the 11ty different rules coming out over the next 50 years.

and i dont just mean from the road, from everywhere.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by flappist

And we also did fine 40 years ago without music in cars, air conditioning, satnav, automatic transmissions and full size cars with 100kw engines.....

So maybe we should completely ban car sound OUTRIGHT so as to remove distractions and ban all cars over 100kw to reduce all the speed problems.....

ban stupid people from breeding.... much better.....

[sleek7]

It's not good to see that these laws being proposed and considered. It's looking more and more like 'driving' is now becoming a right, and not a privilage.

What do they think the outcome of this would be??? No phones in the car will now mean the amount of cars having to suddenly pull over is going to go through the roof and following that will come a whole new list of increased risks... i.e. increase in nose to tail collisions, increase in risk of cars hitting other stopped cars that have not pulled over far enough, increase in risk of head on collisions where car trying to get around pulled over car.....etc etc. the list goes on and on.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

yeah, what's the difference between talking to someone in the car or someone on a phone?

The person in the car knows when to be quiet when more concentration is required. As opposed to the person on the phone who will keep talking.

But not really a fan of this and doubt it will happen any time soon. You need to barinwash people first before making a change like this.

[TheInterceptor]

Maybe if theres a bubble around the driver, somthing like the cabbies used to (still?) have, but closing out the center console just leaving room for gear changing. So block out the rest of the cabin and put sticky crap on the sill so you dont rest your arm on there, also look into painting the dash matt black so it doesnt reflect light and distract the driver....

If govco put the effort it to do some good for a change, we'd probobly be advancing...

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The person in the car knows when to be quiet when more concentration is required. As opposed to the person on the phone who will keep talking.

But not really a fan of this and doubt it will happen any time soon. You need to barinwash people first before making a change like this.

I accept the argument that a passenger in the car can see the surroundings, traffic conditions etc., and therefore should know when the driver has to concentrate more (though I disagree that any but a tiny percentage of passengers would actually notice, let alone do anything about it... if you're a passenger, you tend to pay far less attention to the road). Fine. But what's wrong with a driver taking responsibility and calling back or not answering an incoming call?

Perfect example - was caught in the huge downpour last Friday in Melb. Happened to be on the phone (hands-free) at the time. I told the person I was speaking to that I'd call back (could barely hear them over the rain, anyway). It got so bad I ended up having to pull over as couldn't see anything but a wall of water. I survived, didn't I?

What about a screaming toddler in the back seat in the middle of a tantrum? I can guarantee this is more distracting than having a conversation via handsfree. And I'm sure that the first thing that the parents of such a toddler think is, 'Gee, that's quite distracting... better pull over until the tantrum ends.' PFFFT... the thing they're thinking is they want to get to wherever it is they're going as fast as possible. So let's ban toddlers in cars?

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The person in the car knows when to be quiet when more concentration is required. As opposed to the person on the phone who will keep talking.

But not really a fan of this and doubt it will happen any time soon. You need to barinwash people first before making a change like this.

People are already brainwashed vztrt. Seeing how many people travel 10-20km/h under the posted limit with their gaze fixed on the speedo instead of the road is proof positive of that. If govco pass this sort of legislation, the masses will stop baa'ing on their phones because it will be drummed into them that its bad mm'kay. The few of us that can still string a coherent thought together (thankfully this forum has more than its fair share) see it for the farce it is (along with a lot of the other legislation enforced by the wallopers).
Besides, they have no way of enforcing such a road rule anyway; from the outside looking in, the driver could well be singing along to their favorite song.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

ban stupid people from breeding.... much better.....

Do you really think that any of the incumbent governments would prevent the creation of stupid people in a country where voting is mandatory..........

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

I'm not overly concerned about people using phones. However Saturday afternoon I was rounded up by a red P-Plater female in a 90's model Toyota on the F3 trying to text and drive. She was holding the phone against the steering wheel with one hand and typing with the other. I was sitting on around 117 (yes, I'm naughty) however she was so engaged in what she was doing she was weaving all over the joint. If I was sitting on 117 she would've been in the 125+ zone.

Nothing to do with the texting, the government would blame the fact you were both speeding!! You are both lucky that you didn't just vaporize!

I am on the phone a lot in the car, but have now got a Blackberry, you have to adjust to the fact that it vibrates every 10 minutes from incoming emails. I think Blackberries and any other phone that is capable of recieving emails should be banned.

[redxm]

Yeah, great. There goes half of our business. With luck this will end the same way as suspension mods & bullbars

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

perving at the hot traffic controller at road works.

Which roadworks are you driving past?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Riksta

Which roadworks are you driving past?

I've noticed the same. I don't know what the deal is but I've seen some very attractive traffic girls with the lollipop signs the last couple of years.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

From http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...07-1aite.html:



So what's next? Banning the driver from carrying on a conversation in the car? No passengers (which they already do for certain P platers)?

Political suicide
Of course the next things I and many other will vote them out of course but I wonder what sneaky bit of legislation is about to be hidden in the noise ?
Certainly I want less of a nanny state and see more of my tax mponey spent on infrastructure I use and not of some b/s minority crap with the pollies salery being reduced to a minimum and a light bonus being performance based , in one term show results or by election mandatory

[atec77]

Originally Posted by flappist

Do you really think that any of the incumbent governments would prevent the creation of stupid people in a country where voting is mandatory..........

Try not voting
I never heard a thing apart from a phone call from some govco fool who was told exactly where to go , matter dropped

[AussieAV]

What annoys me most of all is the way the media just report "statistics" from any old source, giving them implied credence, without bothering to see if they have any real world relevance.

Some knob has claimed that even hands free use increases accident risk by 3.7 times. Then the media also report that 60% of drivers admit using phones whilst driving.

So if this were true (even assuming all phone use was hands free) we should have seen a 222% increase in road deaths. The reality is however that fatality rates are way below those of 25 odd years ago when everyone started getting mobiles, and in recent years, as mobile phone ownership has exploded, the road fatality rate has stayed relatively constant or even reduced slightly.

Here is the stupid thing about some of these studies. They often assign blame without really proving a causal link.

I could easily run a study showing that cars with wheels are involved in 99.9999% of fatal accidents. That doesn't make wheels the proximate cause of every accident.

Do mobile phones have the ability to distract, of course they do, but its the idiot drivers who allow themselves to be distracted in high risk situations that cause accidents.

I pick my son up from school each day. If my phone were to ring while I'm in the school zone (and it has) I don't answer it. I'm not going to let myself be even slightly distracted while I'm surrounded by hundreds of kids trying to get to their mum's or dad's car and not looking where they are going. I don't even let my son talk to me until we're well clear of the car park/pick-up area. If however it rings on the way home while I'm driving on familiar roads with moderate traffic, why wouldn't I answer it (in-car handsfree of course).

Its all about the ability to risk assess and realise how much concentration is needed in given situations. Good drivers do this without even realising it, bad ones can't even grasp the concept. The only way to truely decrease the road toll is to get the worst drivers off the road, but the government won't do this, because there will be to many of them, and how do they work/shop/survive without transport.

[aussie muscle]

How about this guy, who answers his mobile phone during his driving test, and wonders why he failed 5 times....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp8HXtuCNts