GM have about 100 days to go??

[Yellow_Festiva]

Just heard that GM will go belly up in around 3 months.

At that time it is predictd that cash will run out, and they will need to go into whatever the US calls bankrupcy (Section 11???).

[Cobra]

Links?

[FlipXW]

Where did you get that from? If thats true then that is huge news.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Just heard that GM will go belly up in around 3 months.

At that time it is predictd that cash will run out, and they will need to go into whatever the US calls bankrupcy (Section 11???).

Chapter 12

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Chapter 12

Chapter 12 Bankruptcy is strictly for Farmers and Fisherman

It doesn't relate to GM at all.


Chapter 11 reals with corporate restructuring and Chapter 7 is Liquidation

This is US law.

[irlewy86]

Chapter 11, saving what can be saved and dumping the rest..... remember Ansett?

[Hally]

Ansett went broke because of Air New Zealand gross incompentance, plain and simple.

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by Hally

Ansett went broke because of Air New Zealand gross incompentance, plain and simple.

Actually no. Ansett was made unviable by Ansett himself. ANZ bought it for the parts stash, stripped it and left it to die. No incompetence there. Their only incompetence was not keeping their own operation viable, but then they knew the gov would bail them out.

This is an interesting thread. It started about GM going belly up and has become a discussion on our whole economy and way of life. Let me wade in...

First we have to engage the population, get them interested enough to think about this for a while. Next we have to make some decisions about our priorities. From there assuming the populations remain engaged enough to back the measures that are required we can achieve the desired outcome.

When I was young Australia had one of the most egalitarian societies in the world. The middle class was large, very little poverty and likewise relatively few VERY wealthy. I liked that society.

In the late 70's there arose the idea that high tarriffs and socialised infrastructure were unsustainable and inefficient. That word, inefficient, is important.

During the 80's under Hawke/Keeting we privatised, deregulated and opened our markets at a cracking pace. Between 1984 and 1994 our poor and rich doubled while the middle class shrank. Unions got bigger and less in touch with membership and everyone more and more is out for themselves rather than the community. Some do very well, some don't.

I saw this happening in the early 90's and realised I wouldn't be able to just be middle class. I had to decide between being wealthy or poor. I'm pretty comfortable and none of this economic stuff will bother me much, in fact I'll probably do quite well out of it, but I am far from unconcerned about the impact on our society.

The real issue here is that the electorate allows itself to be conned. They jump onto slogans, promises, bribes and now are paying the price. The baby boomers paid into the pension fund, paid their income taxes and now feel entitled to a pension. Trouble is they alos hired governments that spent it all, had not enough kids to support them and p*s'd away their inheritence. Gen Y have borrowed up to thier eyeballs and are now complaining interest rates have risen to historical averages again.

So you see you have to make some decisions, set some priorities and work consistently towards them. You can't have cake and eat it. If you deter competition then value and efficiency and innovation are also stifled. Conversely if you open the markets to an uneven global playing field your local industry can't compete.

Finally I have to say I'm shocked by the anomosity I am hearing towards ford. I like my NL but have been recently looking for another car. Everywhere I go I hear people complaining viciously about fords parts prices, ease of repairs, quality, after sales service etc. I've bene quite shocked by it, but as stated elsewhere I was singularly unimpressed by the BF2's I looked at. I rather suspect the big companies management has been unspectacular in doing thier jobs, and now everyone is going to suffer for it. Kinda like the investment banks

http://xkcd.com/386/

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Hally

Ansett went broke because of Air New Zealand gross incompentance, plain and simple.

Ummm...May pay to check your facts

I agree Air NZ were incompetent, but for different reasons....The area where they were incompetent was their failure to conduct a full due dilligence on Ansett before making the offer. They wanted quick entry to the Australian domestic market (like Qantas has in New Zealand). However Ansetts fleet was old, decrepid and falling apart at the seams....It's well known that Ansett had several instances of their planes being grounded for mechanical reasons long before Air NZ arrived on the scene.

Air New Zealands incompetence with the Ansett purchase nearly resulted in their own demise and thankfully for them and their shareholders the NZ govt bailed them out. They learned a huge lesson from that and have now turned around since that blimp on the radar screen back in 2001 and have returned to profitability. Australian CEO running Air NZ then I believe (ex Qantas Finance Director Gary Toomey...resigned not long after)

Ansett would have been history whether or not Air NZ had been there, as some other fool would have bought them.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Chapter 11, saving what can be saved and dumping the rest..... remember Ansett?

Ansett wasn't Chapter 11 (which is a US broad rand "bankruptcy" protection provision against creditors), it was a Voluntary Administration, first with PwC, which ceased flight operations, then with Andersen (which itself subsequently collapsed) leading itself to be managed by Korda Mentha.

[Yellow_Festiva]

No links sorry.... yet.

May be true, may be BS. We may / may not see more come out in a day or two.

[AlbertM]

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCan...3418GM20081106

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by AlbertM

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCan...3418GM20081106

And this one:

http://www.financialpost.com/most_po...html?id=935227

[DJR-351]

Bloody Hell!!!!!!

Some of, NO!, all of the figures mentioned in these reports are mind boggling,
where the hell, even with a country like the US, will the money come from for all these bail outs.

GM goes to the wall its not only its motoring arms, it has its sticky fingers in a few pies.

I heard a story years ago that the Vatican was one of its biggest share holders, if so i think having God on your side might not help with the pile of poo they are now in.

Australia needs to pull in her ranks and consolidate before we get pulled down into the mire along with the US, sorry forgot, one thing stands in our way GLOBALISATION...

Tongue in cheek but again Bloody Hell............

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

Bloody Hell!!!!!!

Some of, NO!, all of the figures mentioned in these reports are mind boggling,
where the hell, even with a country like the US, will the money come from for all these bail outs.

GM goes to the wall its not only its motoring arms, it has its sticky fingers in a few pies.

I heard a story years ago that the Vatican was one of its biggest share holders, if so i think having God on your side might not help with the pile of poo they are now in.

Australia needs to pull in her ranks and consolidate before we get pulled down into the mire along with the US, sorry forgot, one thing stands in our way GLOBALISATION...

Tongue in cheek but again Bloody Hell............

Post Script:

Barack, my heart goes out to you, hope you are upto it.........

[CRUSHU F150]

GM has placed it's world wide AC Delco arm on the market, and it's GMAC finance arm is withdrawing from Australia and New Zealand by the end of the year. BTW, General Electric is also considering shutting down it's finance arm, which will be a major blow to all the furniture and whitegoods shops, car yards etc, as GE finance is everywhere.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by CRUSHU F150

GM has placed it's world wide AC Delco arm on the market, and it's GMAC finance arm is withdrawing from Australia and New Zealand by the end of the year. BTW, General Electric is also considering shutting down it's finance arm, which will be a major blow to all the furniture and whitegoods shops, car yards etc, as GE finance is everywhere.

Think you'll find the GE fianance withdrawal is centred around their lending to the auto industry and home loans... Not whitegoods or furniture (YET?)
From the Age, Last week...

GE Money Australia and New Zealand will no longer offer home loans, motor finance and small business loans because of lack of funding in wholesale markets.

Chief executive and president Mike Cutter said the decision was a direct result of the credit crisis, which has prevented the company from raising funds in Australia.

It is ineligible to apply for a total of $8 billion in funding that the Federal Government is offering to promote competition in the mortgage market.

But GE Money will continue to offer retail store finance with interest-free periods, credit cards, personal loans and insurance.

[Jason[98.EL]]

i know this is probably a stupid question but

what would this meen to gmh here in au

if their parent co falls wouldnt that take them as well

i would hope not as it would have a big part to play in what cars we see here from now on

Grimus

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Grimus

i know this is probably a stupid question but

what would this meen to gmh here in au

if their parent co falls wouldnt that take them as well

i would hope not as it would have a big part to play in what cars we see here from now on

Grimus

GM the business will declare bankruptcy but that doesn't mean the end of Holden.

[dreadly]

Wouldnt holden have to fold?? Due to GM being the parent company if it closes holden will too? - because holden isnt an Australian listed company on the ASX

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by Grimus

i know this is probably a stupid question but

what would this meen to gmh here in au

Grimus

I can only imagine that it would be sold off b4 GM go under. I doubt that GM Holden would go down with them.

[XRtowcar]

We all know what the close down stories did for Mitsubishi in this country....

[vanman_75]

interesting,thats a big hole in the world market .we will wait and see on this 1

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

interesting,thats a big hole in the world market .we will wait and see on this 1

World wide there are too many car manufacturers.. one of the big ones must go.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

World wide there are too many car manufacturers.. one of the big ones must go.

Exactly. Although brand choice is great in an ideal world, from a business sense it's madness that GM and Ford are spending many many millions / billions designing, engineering and producing products that are near identical in their design, prupose and price.

At one stage GM was the largest car manufaturer in the world.

If this has to go ahead, who knows what will happen? Half of me is saying that it will be a bonus for Ford (more customers / less competition) but then, perhaps negative public perception will drag Ford down as well.

Wonder if a GM / Ford merger will be again mentioned in the comming weeks?

[JAZSXY]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

I heard a story years ago that the Vatican was one of its biggest share holders, if so i think having God on your side might not help with the pile of poo they are now in.

The worlds largest organisation...and also the worlds largest tax free organisation. If this is true you could expect a nice little prop up by the Vatican. Who probably have more money in the bank than a bank. Hey dont they even have their own bank? Maybe its time for a loan?

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Exactly.
Wonder if a GM / Ford merger will be again mentioned in the comming weeks?

Didnt Ford employee's break away from Ford and form GM back in the days? Wouldnt it be ironic that just after 100yrs of independance that they reunite.

Originally Posted by BA Waggn

But because our labour is so dear (expensive), they can not compete with O/S model prices.

Unions have played a part along with governments and government organisations. Safety regulations through the roof to some obsurd levels is one factor. Another is striking for extra $$ here extra $$ there. Dont you see your extra $2hr might be good but what if your boss can only afford that for the next 4 months and then your out of a job? It all adds up over time and the employer can no longer afford to compete with the oversea's goods made at a fraction of the cost. Which mind you the government allow to be imported...because hey we all want to save money and have everything as cheap as possible dont we?

Nothing has helped this year. Everyone rode the wave of the stockmarket going up and tried to get on it and make a killing. But everyone is up the creek without a paddle now the wave has dumped them.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by JAZSXY

Unions have played a part along with governments and government organisations. Safety regulations through the roof to some obsurd levels is one factor. Another is striking for extra $$ here extra $$ there. Dont you see your extra $2hr might be good but what if your boss can only afford that for the next 4 months and then your out of a job? It all adds up over time and the employer can no longer afford to compete with the oversea's goods made at a fraction of the cost. Which mind you the government allow to be imported...because hey we all want to save money and have everything as cheap as possible dont we?

.

Mate you really have no idea. No auto union would pursue unviable cash from a major. Its simply not in their interests. When was the last time Ford or GM employees went on strike for $$. As for the safety regs being expensive & obsurd, you obviously havent seen the dangers & threats of a heavy manufacturing environment or you wouldnt be making those statements. If there not up to spec, you are potentially dead.

But you are correct to some degree. Lets not strike, lets keep quite, accept $300pw so our boss makes more & is happy, lets pay $500,000 for a rundown house and top it off with $2.00p/l fuel. FEELING EXCITED

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

World wide there are too many car manufacturers.. one of the big ones must go.

yes & why is this so?

Because we let the Asains Copy the Western Industry & now they have Destroyed it!

If we need to reduce a few Car Makers why not get rid of Kia or Daewoo or Hyundi, Why oh Why did we allow this in the First place :

When the small Invaders started to come to our shores we should have said NO WAY will we buy your Crap Cars :

We only have ourselves to Blame Coz Many of us buy these things!

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

yes & why is this so?


If we need to reduce a few Car Makers why not get rid of Kia or Daewoo or Hyundi, Why oh Why did we allow this in the First place :

When the small Invaders started to come to our shores we should have said NO WAY will we buy your Crap Cars

We only have ourselves to Blame Coz Many of us buy these things!

It seems that half you folks have no idea of reality in regards 2 this topic. The truth is the car makers THEMSELVES are at fualt. In short its fn greed. The big majors in Australia all form part of the AIG.
They themselves constantly derive costdowns from our local suppliers etc. When they can no longer compete, the majors head to asia looking for cheaper .
This is globalisation & free trade, except it aint on a level playing field. How does a western nation produce/compete at asian cost - they eat rice drink water, we eat steak drink beer and in a porcelain bowl.
Why do we have 10% tarrif, yet our export markets have up to 60% tarrif protection.
They sought these asian bases to increase their profits and did so, but their vision was short sighted. Look at holden as an example. The VE is now less than 50% local content and its new v6 is a barge considering its an all new development of approx 6 yrs. For GM to have not predicted the market so close as 6 yrs is a flop. Dont believe the sales figures, as half of the commodores recorded are employee lease cars. Holden has had more down day lay offs than Letterman being on tv. And 90% of its cars are .
Anyone care for a daewoo with a lion badge. Again they thought the public are dumb, niave and down right stupid. Barina, Viva Captiva ARE all a flop. Again this is greed. Thay HAD the good cars in the Vectra, Astra etc and spanish barina, but korean means less car sold at same rrp, more profit.
Im a lefty and can talk all day, but the truth is manufacturing will continue to go offshore as we speak and get bombarded with chinese . Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by fte50

Why?- because as a nation we/media focus more on AFL than on the REAL issues in life which affect us all.
Unless we march in the streets against our own sellout, they will keep doing it.

Spot on, we will be looking around in a decade or so asking "what happened?"