AUII XR8 on gas?

[Deaks]

I was just curious as to how these cars react to being on gas? My car is a 2000 AUII 5Ltr automatic. It has 114k on the clock. Now im not definitely going to put it on gas, but it is an option.

I have also got a 2000 GU patrol 4.5ltr that hasnt done so well on gas (burnt valve) so i really just wanted peoples opinions on how these engines cope with running on gas, and how well they run?

Thanks
Deaks

[JC]

Mixer ring or injected SVI/LPLI? I had mixer ring on an AU1, and it was fine (a few problems initially, but new plugs and leads cured that - you need good spark for LPG, especially with windsors because the leads tend to short to the block as they get old, reducing spark and therefore poor combustion and therefore backfires which blow up air boxes).

SVI/LPLI - no different to using petrol really. Still need good spark, but power and economy usually better than mixer ring, and almost zero chance of backfire because the fuel is delivered to the cylinder, not the air intake as per mixer ring method.

If I had kept my AU2 220kw XR8, it would've been on gas by now.

[Deaks]

I was thinking Gas injection, seems more suited to the XR8. The mixer setup on my Patrol is good, but im not really expecting power out of that car.

You seem to know a fair amount about Gas, what is a good Gas injection setup worth? And is the rebate the same (that may be a Victorian question)?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Deaks

I was thinking Gas injection, seems more suited to the XR8. The mixer setup on my Patrol is good, but im not really expecting power out of that car.

You seem to know a fair amount about Gas, what is a good Gas injection setup worth? And is the rebate the same (that may be a Victorian question)?

By Victorian, do you mean I might not understand it? . I am Victorian by birth if that helps.

Good SVI setup for a V8 should be between $3500 and $4500 (depending on brand, installer etc). LiLPG is around the $4.5 to 5k mark. There is a national rebate which is currently at $1250 - reducing to $1000 in July 2012 (http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/Energy...ges/home.aspx).

[Daniel B]

I'm also quite interested in this topic Deaks as I may be looking to go down this path in the not to distant future.......

I think the Injection type setup is a lot neater from the little bit of research I have done so far, but much more expensive. I guess it depends how much driving you do and how long you plan to keep the car for.

Anyway, will be watching with interest. Let us know how you go.

[Deaks]

Ok theres more i need to research than i thought. One thing im pretty sure of is i dont want a mixer, id much prefer an injection setup.

And no, i thought the rebate may have been state relevant, didnt realize it was nation wide.

Thanks for your help.

Do you have any suggestions on brands that are good? Whats the diff between SVI or LiLpg?

[Deaks]

Ill will let you know what i decide, ive only had the car a week, but im just thinking ahead as i can see this thing costing a fortune to run if i drive like a looney tune.

[JC]

Brands like ACME, Eurogas, Sprintgas, Prins, etc.

LiLPG injects LPG in liquid form using special injectors and no LPG converter, SVI injects LPG also using special injectors, but in vapour (gas) form so it has a similar converter to a mixer ring system. Essentially the same principle, just different technology. LiLPG can result in more power and better economy than petrol. SVI usually results in only slightly less power and economy than petrol.

[david256]

My V8 Fairlane has a Mixer Ring setup and it runs quite well, I actually prefer running on gas and I don't really notice a power drop, though I don't drive it hard. Cost saving on LPG is around 50% of Petrol.

After changing leads and plugs I rarely get backfires maybe one every 6-8 weeks.

As a prevention I use the air box spring slips ( EETVE 0036 A ) and also removed the back fire tube and replaced with a 57 mm black rubber floor protector from Bunnings with a smear of black silastic so it can easily blow out without damage, these only cost $1 each so not worried if its lost.

[Uncle_Ken]

Originally Posted by david256

As a prevention I use the air box spring slips ( EETVE 0036 A ) and also removed the back fire tube and replaced with a 57 mm black rubber floor protector from Bunnings with a smear of black silastic so it can easily blow out without damage, these only cost $1 each so not worried if its lost.

Got any pics of this set up?

UK

[david256]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Ken

Got any pics of this set up?

UK

Here's some

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/img014y.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/img007qv.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/img006yl.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/408/img001lu.jpg/

David

[robbyj]

Liquid injection ftw. A mate's dad did this on his VY or VZ, very neat and seemed to have some noticeable extra power.

Also, duel fuel is rubbish imo, run one or the other. Everyone i personally know that has had duel fuel has giving them grief on some sort of way.

[JC]

Originally Posted by bobuleh

Liquid injection ftw. A mate's dad did this on his VY or VZ, very neat and seemed to have some noticeable extra power.

Also, duel fuel is rubbish imo, run one or the other. Everyone i personally know that has had duel fuel has giving them grief on some sort of way.

There's no reason injected dual fuel won't work. Each has it's own computer/ECU.

[PoweredByCNG]

And furthermore, aftermarket LPI system can NOT be configured as single-fuel systems due to Australian laws. For high performance applications, many gas injection systems will either use petrol supplementation (where gas and petrol are supplied to the engine at the same time) or completely switch over to petrol at high engine speeds due to regulator and/or injector flow restrictions. There are certain gas injection systems that WILL be capable of supplying your V8 with enough gas at high speeds without the need for petrol. Look for either the Emer or Eurogas systems by ALPGW.

[Deaks]

I had a quick chat with my local Gas shop today, he gave me a few options on Vapor Injection that would suit the XR8. 86ltr system with the gas ecu going in the cabin under the dash. Was going to be $3950 installed then get the $1250 rebate from the government.

Thats $2700 after rebate, so $95 to fill up with 95ron, with say 400ks per tank, verses $35 for a tank of gas for the same mileage (dont care so much about the power). So over a year i would do a tank every two weeks, so thats $4940 vs $1820, thats paying off the gas setup bloody quick. Unless my maths is all up the creek.

Petrol: $95 60ltrs 400k $4940 per year
Gas: $35 70ltrs 400k $1820 per year

Seems to be a good option, as i do like to go for random drives.

[JC]

Your maths sounds about right. Sounds like a logical option to me, and savings in your pocket after first year.

[Reaper8]

i have a s1 xr8 on lpg and it is great, just remember that the gov will be hittin lpg with the lovely growing tax bug next year and in summer prices go up as the sale to china for heating is under way. have seen some servo's in adelaide go upto 75c already but only stay there for a couple of days.

[michael_ozzie]

And that LPG km per litre is about 30% higher in most day to day uses. My car on petrol used to average 10.5l/100, and on gas 14l/100.
But yes, it works out at about half the weekly running cost.

[Deaks]

But isnt that the point of LPG injection? Its more fuel effient than the old mixer isnt it?

And even if it does go up by 25c a litre it will still be cheaper than running on 95ron (i think).

[JC]

Originally Posted by Deaks

But isnt that the point of LPG injection? Its more fuel effient than the old mixer isnt it?

And even if it does go up by 25c a litre it will still be cheaper than running on 95ron (i think).

Kind of - SVI is a little bit more efficient, so it might use 20% more LPG than petrol instead of 30. The big advantage is the low risk of backfires.

So as long as LPG stays just under 70% of the cost of petrol, you will be in front (tough at 70% it takes a long time to recoup the initial conversion costs). Even with the extra tax though, LPG is always going to be around 1/2 price of 95.

[Deaks]

I understand that if gas goes up obviously recouping the cost will take longer. What hasnt been brought up yet is the idea that 95ron will also rise over the next few years, so while gas will creep up, so will unleaded.

Whether the extra tax on gas is just lumped on or it will be a gradual thing is to be seen, but talking to a few in the industry, they seem to think it might be yearly increases. But i guess its a who knows kind of guess.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Deaks

I understand that if gas goes up obviously recouping the cost will take longer. What hasnt been brought up yet is the idea that 95ron will also rise over the next few years, so while gas will creep up, so will unleaded.

Whether the extra tax on gas is just lumped on or it will be a gradual thing is to be seen, but talking to a few in the industry, they seem to think it might be yearly increases. But i guess its a who knows kind of guess.

As I understand it, it's an additional 2.5cpl over 5 years for a total of 12.5cpl increase.
Article here: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0513-uz1g.html

[rayban76]

I'm running the Eurogas mixer on my 5.0L (Duel Fuel) and have no problems with it at all, it costs me about $39.00 (averaged) to fill my gas tank and I get around 380-400km's, as long as you have good coil, plugs and leads you should not get any backfiring problems and the power is still really good both low and high end.