What ford engines are more powerful than a 351???

ILLaViTaR · 26-10-2007, 04:56 PM

I've never driven a 351 but keep hearing lots about them.

Are they more powerful than my ED inline 6 or the BA's 6?

What about fords current V8?

I don't understand it really everyone goes on about the 351 but it's a 30 year old engine. Surely technology would give the New 8's the advantage???

sfr rob · 26-10-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

I've never driven a 351 but keep hearing lots about them.

Are they more powerful than my ED inline 6 or the BA's 6?

What about fords current V8?

I don't understand it really everyone goes on about the 351 but it's a 30 year old engine. Surely technology would give the New 8's the advantage???

A 351 would eat your Ed I6 for breakfast, and give the BA v8's a real good run. 30 years or not, a 351 tuned properly is a whole lot of HP.

I don't know the exact HP figures of a stock clevo 351, boss 260 ed I6. Someone will fill us in i am sure.

poolkeeper · 26-10-2007, 05:02 PM

30 years of research & development
but yeah, id say it would be even???

HOON69 · 26-10-2007, 05:03 PM

My Mates and the Ex Inlaws 351's were basically great tuned 351's and ran like Monsters
a good tuned 351 will eat I6's in the E series range(stock to stock tuned)

makes me wanna go and buy another now

||| · 26-10-2007, 05:03 PM

351s are really fast. like fast as the wind.

an engine is just an air pump. technology does them more harm than good. look at top fuel engines. no vtec there

HOON69 · 26-10-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |||

351s are really fast. like fast as the wind.

an engine is just an air pump. technology does them more harm than good. look at top fuel engines. no vtec there

and to get power most big HP engines are back to the Carby setup
so much for technology

sleekism · 26-10-2007, 05:18 PM

At it's peak under the nose of the XY GTHO phase 3 the Cleveland 351 put out an estimated 294 kilowatts.

The current peak for the Modular BOSS is 302 kilowatts.

The peak reached by the SOHC 250 crossflow found in the ED reached 172 kilowatts in the AU XR6.

The DOHC six found in the BA/BF has hit a peak of 190kw naturally aspirated and 270kw turbocharged.

Even though it's the oldest I am under the impression that the best engine out of the 250 crossflow, BOSS and Cleveland is in fact the Cleveland 351..why???

The Cleveland is a oversquare design which encourages high rpm. I think engine builders have seen upwards of 400kw naturally aspirated in the Cleveland 351.

I'm sure the Cleveland guys have much better knowledge but the Cleveland 351 is in fact a new engine in relative terms. The BOSS 302 Mustang was used as a development fuel for the design of the excellent heads on the Cleveland and it was until the end of the muscle car era that the Cleveland was put into production which is a shame because the Cleveland had the potential to dominate the muscle car scene (which it did in Australia).

While not as powerful as the FE big blocks the big blocks were too heavy and inefficient for circuit racing and the Windsor small block was an outdated and restricted design by the late 60's.

For circuit racing the Cleveland was THE BEST engineavailable (though I think they had oiling problems).

Though many would dispute it there hasn't been a V8 to match the Cleveland since. The Windsor had shocking head flow and the Modular V8 is an overweight monstrosity with a design limiting it's ability to rev and be bored and stroked.

GM and Dodge took the path of in fact modernising their pushrod V8's from the 70's such a shame that we didn't get a modern Cleveland.

Don't be fooled by it's age remember man landed on the moon when the Clevo was released and that fest hasn't been matched since.

**Peuty** · 26-10-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

....Even though it's the oldest I am under the impression that the best engine out of the 250 crossflow, BOSS and Cleveland is in fact the Cleveland 351..why???....

I'm a bit concerned as to why we are comparing a 250 crossflow to a 351 Cleveland......................

nugget378 · 26-10-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

I'm a bit concerned as to why we are comparing a 250 crossflow to a 351 Cleveland......................

You'll get over it...

bob 351 · 26-10-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

I'm a bit concerned as to why we are comparing a 250 crossflow to a 351 Cleveland......................

i know there is no comparison to a 351 but i did read an article about some engine builders that got a 250 crossflow to develop 600 bhp

nugget378 · 26-10-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob 351

i know there is no comparison to a 351 but i did read an article about some engine builders that got a 250 crossflow to develop 600 bhp

Post it up Bob,I'd love to see it..

bob 351 · 26-10-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Post it up Bob,I'd love to see it..

mate if i could find magazine i would but true story

RIPGMH · 26-10-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Post it up Bob,I'd love to see it..

There are plenty of turbo 250 c/f's making in excess of 600hp

ILLaViTaR · 26-10-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

At it's peak under the nose of the XY GTHO phase 3 the Cleveland 351 put out an estimated 294 kilowatts.

The current peak for the Modular BOSS is 302 kilowatts.

The peak reached by the SOHC 250 crossflow found in the ED reached 172 kilowatts in the AU XR6.

The DOHC six found in the BA/BF has hit a peak of 190kw naturally aspirated and 270kw turbocharged.

Even though it's the oldest I am under the impression that the best engine out of the 250 crossflow, BOSS and Cleveland is in fact the Cleveland 351..why???

The Cleveland is a oversquare design which encourages high rpm. I think engine builders have seen upwards of 400kw naturally aspirated in the Cleveland 351.

I'm sure the Cleveland guys have much better knowledge but the Cleveland 351 is in fact a new engine in relative terms. The BOSS 302 Mustang was used as a development fuel for the design of the excellent heads on the Cleveland and it was until the end of the muscle car era that the Cleveland was put into production which is a shame because the Cleveland had the potential to dominate the muscle car scene (which it did in Australia).

While not as powerful as the FE big blocks the big blocks were too heavy and inefficient for circuit racing and the Windsor small block was an outdated and restricted design by the late 60's.

For circuit racing the Cleveland was THE BEST engineavailable (though I think they had oiling problems).

Though many would dispute it there hasn't been a V8 to match the Cleveland since. The Windsor had shocking head flow and the Modular V8 is an overweight monstrosity with a design limiting it's ability to rev and be bored and stroked.

GM and Dodge took the path of in fact modernising their pushrod V8's from the 70's such a shame that we didn't get a modern Cleveland.

Don't be fooled by it's age remember man landed on the moon when the Clevo was released and that fest hasn't been matched since.

Hang on, werent the phase 3's a modded 351? So your comparing a modded 351 to a stock Boss?

MO · 26-10-2007, 09:57 PM

Give me the grunt, the sheer bloody mindeness and lack of ultra smooth response everytime.

If you've got a grunt 351 you drive the beast...not steer it like todays stuff.

XCSEDAN · 26-10-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Hang on, werent the phase 3's a modded 351? So your comparing a modded 351 to a stock Boss?

phase 3s came out of the factory like that mate, no aftermarket add ons ;)
so its the same, just like a boss 302/290 is an upgrade from a 260.
same same
in australia, everything same,
elephant lion same

RE: WOG BOY

Mongoose · 26-10-2007, 05:51 PM

I always thought the 390 in the galaxies and other american fords had more power, certianly feels like it.

cuz · 26-10-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose

I always thought the 390 in the galaxies and other american fords had more power, certianly feels like it.

Thats the torque your feeling there buddy.... feels great don't it!! lol

aquahead2001 · 26-10-2007, 06:27 PM

I've driven heaps of Cleveland powered cars and even the 4 barrelled 302 clevelands were dogs compared to a stock 2 barrel 351. I remember how well even the smog restricted XD 5.8 went.

That 4 inch bore and 3 1/2 inch stoke plus the semi hemi heads with them huuuuuugggggeeee valves (2V valves were bigger that Chev fuelly valves stock!) just seem to make power right across the rev range. May be the crank to deck height was "just" right where in the 302 clevo is so wrong...

It was designed as a performance engine and that really shows.

Just dragged out my old copy of Ford Performance Engines by Bob Ganahl (ISBN 0-931472-05-9), he loved them.

Long live the 351 Cleveland as one of the great ford engines ever.

GT 4eva · 26-10-2007, 05:58 PM

i wish they would bring back the 531 please,please,please

bob 351 · 26-10-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT 4eva

i wish they would bring back the 531 please,please,please

i want one of these 531 cudic inches now thats big

**gregaust** · 26-10-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob 351

i want one of these 531 cubic inches now thats big

Easy to do mate and they do make power

:

ILLaViTaR · 26-10-2007, 06:01 PM

Ah so stock the boss is better and when modded the 351 can handle way more?

Also I thought fuel injection gave more power than a carburettor setup?

nugget378 · 26-10-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Also I thought fuel injection gave more power than a carburettor setup?

Not yet they cant..

atec77 · 26-10-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Not yet they cant..

Of course injection can produce more power

nugget378 · 26-10-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Of course injection can produce more power

How so?
Do you have any proof?
We are talking EFI here,not a mechanical injection hat...

jabba · 26-10-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Of course injection can produce more power

Actually the carburetor will make more power then fuel injection.. It's just fuel injection is more tunable and easier to tune....

Fact

Tiapan · 26-10-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

Actually the carburetor will make more power then fuel injection.. It's just fuel injection is more tunable and easier to tune....

Fact

IF you have the right equipment, i can tune my carb with an allen key and a screwdriver

Barry_v · 26-10-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Of course injection can produce more power

Im not sure its that simple. I have a book titled "Ford 5.0 dyno tests" and it does back to back testing of a windsor with and without fuel injection. the test showed that the carb produced more power overall but the injection made more power on the way up... this was put down to the fact that the injection manifold had longer runners. overall very similar results, and not as black and white as you might think.

Nostalgia · 26-10-2007, 06:50 PM

A trio of 97s for me anyday.