Commodore to get run flat tyres

[DanielXR8]

Looks like Holden intends to keep and grow its market share....

Dan

Commodore to get run flat tyres
Toby Hagon, drive.com.au, August 15, 2008



Holden is re-engineering the Commodore to give it the performance of a V6 and fuel economy of a four-cylinder.

Holden is looking at removing the spare tyre from the Commodore and instead fitting controversial run-flat tyres as part of a broader plan to improve fuel efficiency by more than 20 per cent and reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

General Motors Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss says the imminent move to tyres that can be driven on after a puncture is designed to reduce weight, helping the V6 Commodore the efficiency of a four-cylinder.

Reuss believes getting the basics of the Commodore design right is more important than relatively expensive additions such as a hybrid powertrain, which he is now hinting will not happen as early as 2010. This is in contrast to General Motors group vice president Nick Reilly, who said hybrid Commodores would arrive in “a couple of years”.

“There’s a lot of things we can do in the near term and a lot of things we can do in the further term … there’s a lot more to go (in terms of efficiency improvements),” says Reuss, citing everything from weight reduction to more efficient tyres, engine improvements and better aerodynamics.

“It would be really stupid to make a sequential decision around a hybrid in a Commodore before we have efficiency in the base architecture done. I’m talking about all the pieces to get an efficient platform.”

Reuss believes the fuel economy of a regular, petrol engine Commodore can be reduced by 20 per cent or more. He says today’s official average fuel consumption figure of 10.8 litres per 100km could drop to 8.5L/100km.

That would make the entry-level Commodore as efficient as many of today’s smaller, mid-sized four-cylinder cars. A Mazda 6 uses a claimed 8.4 litres of fuel per 100km while a Toyota Camry uses 9.9L/100km.

“We want to give what’s important to the customers, which is the operating efficiency of a small car in a large car.”

Key to the Commodore’s fuel efficiency and CO2 reductions – which Reuss cites as “a very high priority” - is stripping weight.

“If we have a mindset that we have to go after every gram the opportunity there is quite large,” says Reuss. “Mass begets mass, so the bigger the car is, the more massive the car is, the bigger the brakes are, the more you have to press the throttle. It just goes on and on.”

Reuss says the removal of a spare tyre (and jack, tools, etc) as a great way to save up to 16kg of weight.

“There’s plenty of things in the industry, like a Honda Odyssey mini van in the US, that uses a run-flat tyre,” says Reuss. “The technology is there, but we have to make sure the technology of a run-flat tyre is applicable to the car you’re putting it in.”

Reuss is acutely aware of the controversy surrounding cars fitted with run-flat tyres.

The pioneer of the technology locally, BMW, staunchly defends run-flat tyres as being safer and more convenient if you do get a puncture. Opponents have criticised the higher costs (no longer an issue), compromises in ride quality and change in driving dynamics if you do get a puncture.

Reuss plans to circumvent those concerns by giving buyers the choice between regular tyres (including a spare) and runflat tyres.

“[We’ll] make it a free option and tell the customer how much fuel they’re going to save by not carrying it around in the city,” he says. “As long as we option it at no cost then who cares? If [a spare tyre] is what you want and you’ve got to have it then great, but don’t penalise everybody [by adding weight].”

Reuss also says the increased use of lighter materials, such as aluminium, is also being considered.

“How do you measure the cost of lost sales due to fuel economy and mass?” he asks. “What it gets down to is you want to have a rule with everything you look at in a car on a cost per kilogram basis. [This is a] rule of thumb you apply to every single piece of the car”

He also says Holden’s large car could get a smaller V6 engine – the current V6 family can be built in sizes from 2.8 litres to 3.6 - and has not ruled out the option of the return of the four-cylinder Commodore.

“If you look at technologies like direct injection you can decrease the engine size and actually increase the power and increase fuel economy,” says Reuss. “The performance of the Commodore could be equal to or better than today if we can achieve both fuel technology, engine technology and mass efficiency and vehicle efficiency.”

The Commodore’s hydraulic power steering is also set to be replaced by a more efficient electric system.

The Commodore is also undergoing a complex analysis of its aerodynamics. Reuss plans to put the Commodore in a wind tunnel to verify proposed changes, which could encompass underbody updates, adjusted ride heights and revised tyre designs.

Reuss says the improvements to the Commodore will be rolled out progressively over the next few years, rather than in one big project. The first updates are due by the end of the year.

“Over the next three years you’re going to see a new entry, a new technology or both over the next couple of months.”

Holden and its parent General Motors are embarking on a strategy to diversify the fuel options that can be used in its vehicles. It is working on everything from electric and hydrogen power to natural gas, LPG and ethanol.

[Serial_Fool]

Sounds like a big advertisement from Holden. Always trying to outshine and outmanouver a superior porduct.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Sounds like a big advertisement from Holden. Always trying to outshine and outmanouver a superior porduct.

A superior product never guarantees superior sales.

[Supercharged]

Here comes a face lifted VB commodore, that VE is a big heavy gutless thing.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Sounds like a big advertisement from Holden. Always trying to outshine and outmanouver a superior porduct.

And they do it time and again and Ford are too stupid to counteract them.

[Bossxr8]

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

[Fev]

From every single review of a car that has runflats they have only recieved bad comments whether the tyre was popped or not.. and with holdens claims!? PAH! good luck! BUT: its a publicity release, they are trying to get the public to believe that the next holden to be released will be cheap on fuel, huge savings etc etc etc.. Never enough words of praise for holdens marketing department(atleast compared to fords)

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

1400KG XR6T ohhh yeah oh the drifting!

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As if 16kg of weight is going to save anything bar the smallest thimble full of petrol.

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

Oh that's great news!!! :

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Otherwise, it sounds about as plausible as Holden adopting run-flats + 16kg weight reduction and achieving a 25% improvement to fuel economy to its Commodore.

Boy there sure are a lot of buzz words being bandied around in the press...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Oh that's great news!!! :

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Otherwise, it sounds about as plausible as Holden adopting run-flats + 16kg weight reduction and achieving a 25% improvement to fuel economy to its Commodore.

Boy there sure are a lot of buzz words being bandied around in the press...

Bill Osbourne recons lightweight materials are the way to go, but rejected the idea of an aluminium body. He's an engineering PHD so if he believes its possible i'd believe him over Holdens BS marketing department. Like when one of the Holden guys said they will have a Hybrid Commodore ready in a few years, and the engineering bosses didn't even know what he was talking about because they haven't even looked at it. They then conceded it wasn't going to happen any time soon and they didn't know where they had got the idea of a Commonwhore Hybrid by 2010.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bill Osbourne recons lightweight materials are the way to go, but rejected the idea of an aluminium body. He's an engineering PHD so if he believes its possible i'd believe him over Holdens BS marketing department. Like when one of the Holden guys said they will have a Hybrid Commodore ready in a few years, and the engineering bosses didn't even know what he was talking about because they haven't even looked at it. They then conceded it wasn't going to happen any time soon and they didn't know where they had got the idea of a Commonwhore Hybrid by 2010.

Can't argue with that wisdom!

So it's Falcon minus 300kg ... all systems go. :

Vote 1, Bill Osbourne for Ford's Global CEO position.

[FalconXR6]

A Commodore with a smaller capacity V6 than the current 3.6 litre?
I honestly can not imagine anything worse.
I can't imagine fuel consumption dramatically changing either.
A smaller V6 with less torque than the current torqueless motor will need to be whipped harder to get it to move - thus using more fuel to do so.

What Holden needs is a PROPER 6 speed gearbox for it's base models, not a public masturbation over run flat tyres and implying a 25% fuel saving as a result...!!!

Direct injection and light weight materials are the two biggest hurdles both Holden and Ford need to tackle if they want the efficiency of a current 4 pot. The Commo V6 in Caddy form already has direct injection, so it's only a matter of time before Holden adopts the tech. While Ford's new V6 for the Falcon will (from what I've read) be a DI engine.

Neither camp has confirmed plans to reduce weight and how they propose to this.

DSG transmissions, while currently too expensive for a family sedan, would also assist economy.

But once again (with regards to consumption) it's not what you drive, it's what you do with it that matters!!!

[prydey]

maybe holden should talk to a few bmw owners who drive cars with run flats and how much poorer the ride quality is. as others have said, these get very poor reviews worldwide.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Oh that's great news!!! :

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Otherwise, it sounds about as plausible as Holden adopting run-flats + 16kg weight reduction and achieving a 25% improvement to fuel economy to its Commodore.

Boy there sure are a lot of buzz words being bandied around in the press...

FORD will bring in the LWB Mondeo !!!!

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by csv8

FORD will bring in the LWB Mondeo !!!!

Well that might save 100kg at best...

Or how about this:

"Introducing the Bill Osbourne inspired, new-generation Falcon... made from corrugated cardboard!".

[snappy]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Well that might save 100kg at best...

Or how about this:

"Introducing the Bill Osbourne inspired, new-generation Falcon... made from corrugated cardboard!".

100kg still bloody lot better then 16kg
Then you have the new alloy duratec motor probly another 50kg (guessing)
then you half way there . maybe shave a few hundred grams off every other part or where they could.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

So... have you thought about how exactly Ford plans to achieve its objective, short of packaging an undersized, FWD, Camry rival and slapping on the famous Falcon badge? Be careful what you wish for.

Volvo actually has designed a way of pressing metal where it would reduce the weight of the panels but would keep their strength. Bossxr8 would know better then me whats going on over at Ford. But as the technology is there it is an option. Problem with this is the upgrade to the stamping plant will prob be high.

[OzJavelin]

If Holden are that worried about size/weight they should ditch the barge-like VE and start building the TT36 "Torana" showcar .. turbo'd V6 or 4.0L(ish) V8 would be nice ..

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Bill Osbourne was in one of the carsguides recently saying they believe they can possibly shed 300kg of weight out of a future Falcon and get economy down to the 7 litre per 100 region, so looks like Ford are planning to take economy even further past the Commodore.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Too many half baked ideas and promises from Ford and Holden.

There seems to be a trend of people moving to SUV/4wd as well, people finding these more relevant and practical than the traditional sedan. Ford need to rejig the Territory, update the bland styling, offer some nice goodies inside with the option of a DIESEL engine.

[AWD Chaser]

Well, to have run flats fitted, they will need a Tyre Pressure Monitoring system on each vehicle that is fitted with run flats (requirement).

Saving 16kg of weight to save on fuel?

Why not just only ever put in half a tank of fuel. Saves carrying an extra 35L of fuel around, which would save more fuel....

[yift]

run flat tyres.....they were meant to be released with them! cant wait to see the look of each and every commodore owners face when they have to replace them, they can be double the price of conventional tyres

[nugget378]

Commodore sales around punchbowl will spike heavily on release..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Commodore sales around punchbowl will spike heavily on release..

I'll tip the new fad in 5 years time is two runflats on the rears of every p plate commodore.....

[Airmon]

I hope Ford don't follow suit, I can see a real fuel saving in taking out the spare though. :

[Miller]

lol at power of a v6 with fuel ecconomy of a 4 pot. Good luck with that.

[Nikked]

so you save money on fuel but have more expensive tires?

[Nikked]

beta!

[MOTORE]

I don't mind run flats. Yeh sure you pay extra but I think it's worth it if it saves you changing a flat on the side of a busy road. They aren't as practical outside metro areas though because they can be hard to get.

[ebxr8240]

They say all this but its never released..
Holden have disabled these features but advertise them!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine
Had a BMW with these tyres.. Trust me they are no big deal..
Very expensive tyres to replace.. Yes you can drive with them flat !!
But you have to replace the tyre. It cannot be repaired....

[XF Falcon]

Aren't run flats heavier than regular tyres anyway? What would the extra weight of 4 run-flat tyres be over 4 conventional run-flat tyres?

[ebxr8240]

YEP!! The one's I had ....