Diff gears, LSD, stall

[The Monty]

Just a couple of questions regarding buying diff gears, LSD's and Stalls.
Firstly, what should I be looking for in terms of splines, and size of diff.
For instance, would these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...spagenameZWD2V
Diff bears fit, as I know the Commodore, early skyline ones do, but these are a great price, Id pay the extra to get it from the US, as they are new and are Ford products.

Also, is it just the 4.11's that need to be modified to fit the diff, or all of them.

With the LSD, same Q's, but what are the alternatives, ie., LOKKA, mini spool (no Im not getting a mini spool), etc.

Anyone have any suggestions as to who could build it for me, and what other parts would I need, like seals, bearings etc.

Do I use my original housing?

Ok, onto Stalls, I know what I want, Im just after opinions on how people have paid and from who.

Ive just had a full flush, so would I need another one, or can I just top it up?

Thanks to anyone who helps even in the least,
Josh

[bloggs24]

Torque converter industries Seven Hills.

Apparantely there cheap, they've got a website but its not very informative, much later on down the track there most likely who im going to talk to.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Just a couple of questions regarding buying diff gears, LSD's and Stalls.
Firstly, what should I be looking for in terms of splines, and size of diff.
For instance, would these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...spagenameZWD2V
Diff bears fit, as I know the Commodore, early skyline ones do, but these are a great price, Id pay the extra to get it from the US, as they are new and are Ford products.

Those gears won't fit any BW78 as far as I know. The 8.8 is a different diff.

Also, is it just the 4.11's that need to be modified to fit the diff, or all of them.

I wasn't aware of 4.11's needing any modding to fit, though I haven't done any myself, so not certain.

With the LSD, same Q's, but what are the alternatives, ie., LOKKA, mini spool (no Im not getting a mini spool), etc.

Unless you're going to use it only on the track, a LSD is more than good enough.
Good LSD's are tire friendly, axle friendly, safer in the wet, and for most applications work just as well as a locked rear.

Anyone have any suggestions as to who could build it for me, and what other parts would I need, like seals, bearings etc.

Diffs are relatively easy to recondition contrary to what diff builders like you to believe.
All you need is new bearings and seals and the cones either machined or fit new ones.
You can increase the spring tension to decrease slip.
A handful of shims and away you go.

Do I use my original housing?

Can't see why not.

Ok, onto Stalls, I know what I want, Im just after opinions on how people have paid and from who.

Ive just had a full flush, so would I need another one, or can I just top it up?

The converter holds most of the oil anyway, so you may as well ditch the lot.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Just a couple of questions regarding buying diff gears, LSD's and Stalls.
Firstly, what should I be looking for in terms of splines, and size of diff.
For instance, would these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...spagenameZWD2V
Diff bears fit, as I know the Commodore, early skyline ones do, but these are a great price, Id pay the extra to get it from the US, as they are new and are Ford products.

Also, is it just the 4.11's that need to be modified to fit the diff, or all of them.

With the LSD, same Q's, but what are the alternatives, ie., LOKKA, mini spool (no Im not getting a mini spool), etc.

Anyone have any suggestions as to who could build it for me, and what other parts would I need, like seals, bearings etc.

Do I use my original housing?

Ok, onto Stalls, I know what I want, Im just after opinions on how people have paid and from who.

Ive just had a full flush, so would I need another one, or can I just top it up?

Thanks to anyone who helps even in the least,
Josh

My 4:11's went in with no modifications.I dont know what type they were. I dont recommend 4:11 diff ratio.If I could go back in time 3:9's would be a better ratio. The 4:11 gears rev significantly harder at 110 kmph so long distance travell chews more fuel.Also the 4:11's seem to hold the car back a bit after half track..

My hi stall cost me 300 dollars two odd years ago and it is a 2500 rpm unit.I got it from torque convertor industries in Seven Hills NSW. Speak to Len Pendlebury. Hes been doing convertors even when I was in school!! Have a chat what you want and hell do the right thing.

[The Monty]

I will be limiting myself to 3.7's. Taking into account new shift points, and stuff, Ill be just about hitting 4th gear at 159, which I will get to not far over theline. But I dont want to hit the limiter, as this will come down to 159 also, due to the shorter gear ratios.

[Stav]

I had 3.73's and the car hit mid range power and kept pulling away freely.They are a good choice.Also good drivability on the freeway. With the 3.73's you will be pulling third at around 4500 to 4700rpm a cross the line at the drags

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Stav

I had 3.73's and the car hit mid range power and kept pulling away freely.They are a good choice.Also good drivability on the freeway. With the 3.73's you will be pulling third at around 4500 to 4700rpm a cross the line at the drags

That kinda sucks, no more 6400rpm across the line, lol.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I will be limiting myself to 3.7's. Taking into account new shift points, and stuff, Ill be just about hitting 4th gear at 159, which I will get to not far over theline. But I dont want to hit the limiter, as this will come down to 159 also, due to the shorter gear ratios.

MMM, have you done your numbers right?
At 6000rpm in 3rd gear, your speed will be 196kph, based on a 25.5" tyre.
What do you have the limiter and shift points at?

[The Monty]

With 3.08's, limiter is at 180, and it changes into 4th right at the limiter. With the 3.7's as they are shorter, the engine speed will be higher at the same speed. Im pretty sure thats how it works. So instead of the end of third gear at the old 5600 or whatever the old limiter is, being 180, it should be at 159(ish).

If Ive stuffed that up Im sorry, but thats how it seems to me.

Regarding shift points and limiters, I have neither. If I hold say first, it will go to whatever RPM it is at when I change it, so if I maunally shift into 2nd at 6500, itll shift at 6500, but if I leave it in Drive I think its still the same shift point (great inventions these capa boxes).
I have no speed limiter, but I just dont want to make the tailshaft let go.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

With 3.08's, limiter is at 180, and it changes into 4th right at the limiter. With the 3.7's as they are shorter, the engine speed will be higher at the same speed. Im pretty sure thats how it works. So instead of the end of third gear at the old 5600 or whatever the old limiter is, being 180, it should be at 159(ish).

If Ive stuffed that up Im sorry, but thats how it seems to me.

I'm not sure, but the figures don't look right, in any case for your own info, using 25.5" tyres (235/45/17), the speeds will be as follows -

6000rpm - 3.08 - 3.45 - 3.73 - 4.11
1st - 99 - 88 - 82 - 74
2nd - 163 - 145 - 134 - 122
3rd - 236 - 211 - 195 - 177
4th - 347 - 310 - 287 - 261

[The Monty]

Im not saying your wrong, as you are probably right, but I pull 6400 over the line in 2nd and thats just under 150K's. Thats with 3.08's. I use 15's, but they are practically the same rolling diameter as the 17's, so that doesnt make a difference. Weird, lol.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Im not saying your wrong, as you are probably right, but I pull 6400 over the line in 2nd and thats just under 150K's. Thats with 3.08's. I use 15's, but they are practically the same rolling diameter as the 17's, so that doesnt make a difference. Weird, lol.

Ok, there will be some difference because a torque convertor isn't 1:1 as it slips a bit. Your tacho may also be a few hundred rpm out.

Now, 6400rpm is 174kph if we assume no tacho error and T/C slip.

So if your real engine speed is (say) 6100rpm (at the indicated 6400rpm), which brings speed down to 166kph. And the torque converter has 10% slip, then we are actually down to around 150kph.

Clear as mud! :togo:

[The Monty]

Lol, I see....
I dont actually 100% believe the tacho in the car, so that makes a bit more sense.

[The Monty]

What about a LOKKA?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

What about a LOKKA?

Waste of time IMO. A good LSD is all you need.
If you had 600hp, then a some kind of locker/spool might be a good idea, even so a good LSD usually does the job even with that kind of power.

They just make any car unpredictable in the dry, and downright dangerous in the wet.
They're just a track item.

[The Monty]

No no, not locker, a LOKKA, fully open under cruising conditions, but lock under acceleration or deceleration, so turning a corner it will be open until you mash the loud pedal, but if your soft on it, it wont lock. I heard they are noisy though, but then again, so's a three inch.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

No no, not locker, a LOKKA, fully open under cruising conditions, but lock under acceleration or deceleration, so turning a corner it will be open until you mash the loud pedal, but if your soft on it, it wont lock. I heard they are noisy though, but then again, so's a three inch.

Ya, I know what you mean, GTHO phase 3's had them.
They are definitely friendlier than a full locker, but still not needed IMO, for similar reasons to the above.
You just need a well made tight LSD, they do the job just fine and are MUCH nicer to drive.

Any kind of solid locking device (for the road) is just for hero talk at the local maccas. :

[The Monty]

Im just thinking LOKKA, as LSD is more expensive, and needs repacking from time to time. LOKKA shouldnt ever break with the power of an AU.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Im just thinking LOKKA, as LSD is more expensive, and needs repacking from time to time. LOKKA shouldnt ever break with the power of an AU.

Yeh well, if you're thinking of $$$, then also consider they will chew through tyres at twice the rate.
And really, LSD's aren't that expensive IMO.

Do you do much spannering yourself?

[The Monty]

Not really, but I pass spanners to the people when we work on my car, lol. I thought you understood, Im just throwing up all ideas. Im not into the whole hero talk either, lol, I just want traction at willowbank, and a diff that will let me do burnouts on slicks and not die.
Thanks for all your help though, youve been awesome so far.

Stav, I rang Len, Im ringing back on Monday for my new mod

What can you expect in the way of improvements at the track with a 3g stall?

[Stav]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Not really, but I pass spanners to the people when we work on my car, lol. I thought you understood, Im just throwing up all ideas. Im not into the whole hero talk either, lol, I just want traction at willowbank, and a diff that will let me do burnouts on slicks and not die.
Thanks for all your help though, youve been awesome so far.

Stav, I rang Len, Im ringing back on Monday for my new mod

What can you expect in the way of improvements at the track with a 3g stall?

3g stallie!!! Wow.. At the track with my 60 footers I got 2.1 60 footers.That is a 2500 unit. A 3000 unit I am not sure. What did he say? He told me in recent times that my car with a 3000 stallie will get ahead of my car today by roughly the same amount as the jump to 2500. If that is right and my best 60 footers are 2.02 then a 1.9 60 footer is there for the taking youd think.

What did he say? Did he remember me?

Be aware mont that at 3000 stall speed you may need a limp home defender type box.

How much did he quote?

[Stav]

You really have to match the convertor to your peak torque curve. Our cars typically make it around 3000 to 3200 and vct's at 3500.This may explain why Casper had a 3500 rpm unit and ran 14.5's. He was smart and used the torque to get the car going.

My convertor is way too small for drag racing but a good compromise for daily driving and occasional drags.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Not really, but I pass spanners to the people when we work on my car, lol. I thought you understood, Im just throwing up all ideas. Im not into the whole hero talk either, lol, I just want traction at willowbank, and a diff that will let me do burnouts on slicks and not die.
Thanks for all your help though, youve been awesome so far.

Ok, well IMO a LSD won't bust, we're not talking big power, so will be ok.

What can you expect in the way of improvements at the track with a 3g stall?

With traction and the right gears, you might lift the front wheels off the deck!

Don't go too high with stall speed, as Stav said, you want it to be nice on the road too I assume? Too high a stall speed and the thing will be revving it's guts out just parking.

BTW, I probably have a set of 3.45 gears if you want a quick compromise. Maybe not ideal, but a shirt load better than 3.08's, and with the higher stall, you might find they are ok. You could have them for $150.

[The Monty]

I just rang and told him what I wanted. I have the capa flash, so if it goes into LHM, Ill just get Elite auto to touch it up for me. But seeing as all the other limiters are removed, maybe that has been touched up on already.

[Stav]

If he does your convertor your gonna need one more thing...traction!! :

[The Monty]

I also have run a few 2.1 60's with the stock stall/single spinner/3.08's, so this should liven it up lots. I will get something in the diff done at the same time, but no diff gears for the time being, I just cant stretch the budget that far.

[The Monty]

Blackers has a spare set of 3.45's when he does his LSD conversion, WHEN he does itlol. But I might think about that, thanks heaps for the offer.

[The Monty]

I do a lot of highway driving, and I dont do SFA round town driving, so things like stalls, and a big cam wont affect me too much, as its a one k drive to the highway, and then 30k's straight on the highway to work, and the same in the arvo, then a 300k round trip on the weekend highway drive, lol.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I do a lot of highway driving, and I dont do SFA round town driving, so things like stalls, and a big cam wont affect me too much, as its a one k drive to the highway, and then 30k's straight on the highway to work, and the same in the arvo, then a 300k round trip on the weekend highway drive, lol.

A stall which is too high can have a negative effect on the highway too.
You'll be sitting on 110kph, with the stall slipping to buggery at (say) 2800rpm. That's not good as you'll go through fuel like an alcho.
Stavs choice is probably a good one.

Your car should launch better than his anyway as it isn't as heavy as a battleship.

[Debzilla_108]

Blackers has a 2800 stall and its not a problem to drive .. i actually like driving it...(thinking of getting my own....cant let these boys have all the fun