Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[onfire]

The Mazda 6 tops the list as the most sold vehicle in the country. The Holden Commodore comes in at number 2. While our very own Ford Falcon drops to 9th place overall for 2011.

Whats going on?

With the Mazda 6 taking the honors, it suggests what a lot of us will deny - that Australian consumers are moving towards small sedans with 4 Cylinders while remaining practical.

The 2nd placing for the Commodore tells us, there's still hope for the big 6 cylinder sedan in today's world. Could the green marketing push behind the SIDI engine have inspired some to stick to a larger car?

[Ford_The_Win]

I think plenty of people are still buying Falcons - they're just buying second hand ones. There are heaps of families in suburbia with a second hand Falcon or Commodore in the driveway.

[Windsor220]

Its Mazda 3 not the 6.

What you need to think about is what benefit will there be in buying a Falcon over one of the smaller cars like a 3?

The small car has the same tech maybe more, better fuel economy, easier to drive around, quick enough for the street, can hold 5 people at a squeeze and is much cheaper to buy. The only reason you would buy a Falcon is maybe for towing or if you were regularly travelling with 5 people which wouldnt be often. Then in those cases you have the competition from a number of SUVs/4WDS/people movers.

Large sedans just dont have a purpose anymore. As everything keeps going up in cost they will probably disappear. Commodore may of finished 2nd but they are no where near the number of sales they used to make and they only have the Falcon and Aurion as competition in their segment.

[falconnut]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I think plenty of people are still buying Falcons - they're just buying second hand ones. There are heaps of families in suburbia with a second hand Falcon or Commodore in the driveway.

This.

The question should be "Whats stopping people from buying the new falcon?"

Personally i think its because its overpriced, under equipped and has absolutely useless adverting .

Honestly its better value to get a 2ndhand falcon and maintain it/hot it up, you get alot more car for your $

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Options basically.

You mean Factory options, there are infinite aftermarket options, you could have easily got a decent headunit that has bluetooth.

[onfire]

What's stopping people from buying a new one?

[Torment47]

Originally Posted by onfire

What's stopping people from buying a new one?

I think the Price is a big reason why people won't buy a new car and the fact that the value drops of allot when they go to re-sell it..
Hence why allot of europeon car companys are offering more for new cars ( E.g Warranty,free servicing etc..)

[bad moon rising]

Originally Posted by Torment47

I think the Price is a big reason why people won't buy a new car and the fact that the value drops of allot when they go to re-sell it..
Hence why allot of europeon car companys are offering more for new cars ( E.g Warranty,free servicing etc..)

falcon resale is absolutley crap, who wants to sprend 35k on a new xr6 to have it 2 years 60000km later only be worth 12-15k on trade in. the warranty also isnt good enough,just look at hyundai (dont laugh) 5year unlimited km warrenty, reasonably cheap to initially buy and service. why pay more on a falcon to lose more? if ford had a 5year unlimited km warrenty theyd go broke within 3 years just with diff bush and ball joint warrenty claims.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bad moon rising

falcon resale is absolutley crap, who wants to sprend 35k on a new xr6 to have it 2 years 60000km later only be worth 12-15k on trade in. the warranty also isnt good enough,just look at hyundai (dont laugh) 5year unlimited km warrenty, reasonably cheap to initially buy and service. why pay more on a falcon to lose more? if ford had a 5year unlimited km warrenty theyd go broke within 3 years just with diff bush and ball joint warrenty claims.

So BMR, the best thing Ford could do is limit the number of cars sold and make them a bit more expensive,
that would have a big knock on effect of better resale value too, more desirable versions would help.

Perhaps EcoLPi allows Ford to pursue fleet sales without hurting the retail market's mostly petrol sales...
Finance is another area Ford should look at, full retail with ultra low interest rate on leases...

[bad moon rising]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So BMR, the best thing Ford could do is limit the number of cars sold and make them a bit more expensive,
that would have a big knock on effect of better resale value too, more desirable versions would help.

Perhaps EcoLPi allows Ford to pursue fleet sales without hurting the retail market's mostly petrol sales...
Finance is another area Ford should look at, full retail with ultra low interest rate on leases...

i think from a marketing point of view the limited edition models seem to be a good thing. just look at the bf cobras and 40th anniversary gt's, the sold out quite fast and 6 months later people were paying more for a 2nd hand one than what a new one was worth, they had good resale. its just unfortunate if you just buy a for example xr6 fg before you warrenty have even expired your cars value has dropped 50%.

i think the eco lpi is a great motor. i think one of fords biggest issues in selling any of the models is there advertising. il be honest i dont remember seeing an add on tv for a eco lpi, none for the supercharged gt yet, very few for the f6 etc etc, yet every 2 minutes there a add for a exciting add for a mazda3 or ss commodore. they need to let buyers know what they have, how fuel efficient they are and how they compare to the competition.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So BMR, the best thing Ford could do is limit the number of cars sold and make them a bit more expensive,
that would have a big knock on effect of better resale value too, more desirable versions would help.

Perhaps EcoLPi allows Ford to pursue fleet sales without hurting the retail market's mostly petrol sales...
Finance is another area Ford should look at, full retail with ultra low interest rate on leases...

Making them more expensive might work, but only if the build quality, features, after sales service and marketing match the price. They don't score well on any of those now, so putting the price up will just reduce the sales. For Ford to move successfully more to the premium brand end of the market, they would have to drastically overhaul the dealer network and change quite a few of their own attitudes to customer service. Ford don't show any indications that they want to tackle that, so you are left with price as the main incentive.

[atmoxr6]

Originally Posted by bad moon rising

falcon resale is absolutley crap, who wants to sprend 35k on a new xr6 to have it 2 years 60000km later only be worth 12-15k on trade in. the warranty also isnt good enough,just look at hyundai (dont laugh) 5year unlimited km warrenty, reasonably cheap to initially buy and service. why pay more on a falcon to lose more? if ford had a 5year unlimited km warrenty theyd go broke within 3 years just with diff bush and ball jointwarrenty claims.

just done 10 thous klms in 7days worth of driving on trip to bris and back home in w.a in my '09 xr6 zf 6spd over the xmas holiday's. in my opinion nothing worth the value of the falcon/xr especially, would have done the trip as well.

[bad moon rising]

Originally Posted by atmoxr6

just done 10 thous klms in 7days worth of driving on trip to bris and back home in w.a in my '09 xr6 zf 6spd over the xmas holiday's. in my opinion nothing worth the value of the falcon/xr especially, would have done the trip as well.

dont get me wrong, if you were going to buy one and keep it for 10 years i think its a fair buy but if you bought an fg and were going to trade it in for an fg2 when it comes out thats when the resale figures really start to hurt. they just drop value so quick. on the 2nd hand market there is definatley some bargains to be had.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by onfire

What's stopping people from buying a new one?

When I was looking for a replacement to our family wagon (Volvo 740Turbo 7 seats, was t-boned but saved my wife), we had a very young family and wanted something very safe. We looked at the Commodore and Falcon Wagons, they just didn't have the comfort levels we wanted, Back seat was shocking.

The Territory was perfect; all the safety gear, 7 seats, easy to drive and park, comfortable. We purchased new.

Second time around, we're keeping the Territory and looking for a second car. The kids are older, and the wife wants something smaller to drive and a sedan.

The Falcon is too big, and she say's looks butch.
She likes the Commodore, but I put my foot down because its a large car and we don't need two large vehicles (though I do like the SS).

The Focus and Cruze are the perfect size, they're big small cars. The whole family has sat in them, and gone for a decent drive. We all fit in comfortably, with plenty of room in the boot for whatever.

If I was going to buy another large car, Falcon or Commodore, I'm not sure I'd buy new. We have the SA Government vehicle auctions close by, and there are quality low km cars there for very reasonable prices. I think I'd buy one of those.

Not sure why; Cruze/Focus I'd buy new, and Falcon/Commodore I'd buy used.

[DJM83]

I was faced with this option when i bought my XR5.
I went in looking for a manual FG XR6T ute but bought the 5 instead.
The Focus does everything my old AU TE50 did (Noise aside)
Now this is my opinion so dont get anyones knickers in a knot but IMO my focus is a lot better finished then the falcons i drove ie quality only thing i didnt like was the lack of features but the ute didnt have many more.
Looking back im glad i chose what i did, i love my focus and i was unsure if i would but i do.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Resale value?

[cortinagt]

Fear (created by the media) that they will stop building them soon. It seems like Mitsubishi all over again. Too many people believe what they hear on Today Tonight.

What they don't say is Ford Aus has one of the most highly respected design teams in the world and the next Commodore is likely to be designed overseas.

[vztrt]

Most Falcons are bought by Fleets so the Falcon didn't really have much for them until the end of the year.

Just remember the Terri ended up being the best selling SUV in Australia. Many more private sales.....guess were the market has been moving in the last 10 years.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Most Falcons are bought by Fleets so the Falcon didn't really have much for them until the end of the year.

Just remember the Terri ended up being the best selling SUV in Australia. Many more private sales.....guess were the market has been moving in the last 10 years.

Spot on. People want more versatility from their vehicles. The Terri is what gives them that from the Falcon platform.

I've been saying it awhile, but having a Falcon hatch as opposed to the sedan would be terrific.

[Kryton]

And those "small cars" arent so small any more either.

[mrniceguy]

Was talking to my old man about this today and he was saying the mazda 3 is close to 1700 kg, about 8inches wider than a vb commodore, and about 4 inches shorter. I think our definition of a small car is changing, rather than people actually wanting smaller cars.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Was talking to my old man about this today and he was saying the mazda 3 is close to 1700 kg, about 8inches wider than a vb commodore, and about 4 inches shorter. I think our definition of a small car is changing, rather than people actually wanting smaller cars.

Its 1435kg not 1700.

[Brazen]

The most successful car company for the last decade and the one with the most powerful marketing machine could only sell just over 8000 Aurion sedans last year. Large sedans are dead. Falcon is doing well under the circumstances.

As for Commodore, truth is Commodore was tracking that fast downward in 2008. Sportwagon saved Commodore's @rse.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The most successful car company for the last decade and the one with the most powerful marketing machine could only sell just over 8000 Aurion sedans last year. Large sedans are dead. Falcon is doing well under the circumstances.

As for Commodore, truth is Commodore was tracking that fast downward in 2008. Sportwagon saved Commodore's @rse.

I didn't agree at the time. I actually felt that they spent alot of money just to substitute a wagon sale for a sedan sale. Although I did agree it provided an alternative come lease renewal time.

But, for the last year and a bit, I would have to wholeheartedly agree. Sportwagon stopped what was a very downward sales trajectory of the Commodore because at that time, Falcon had already pretty much stabilised (at a lower level).

I love the look, comfort and the way our FG XR6 drives and appreciate it's practicality and boot size. But, if it were a hatch or sportwagon it would be even better and more versatile.

Right now if we were to buy new it would be a TS TDCi Territory for practicality or an FG2 XR6T Falcon for performance. But, the Territory would get the nod.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

As for Commodore, truth is Commodore was tracking that fast downward in 2008. Sportwagon saved Commodore's @rse.

Originally Posted by phillyc

I didn't agree at the time. I actually felt that they spent alot of money just to substitute a wagon sale for a sedan sale. Although I did agree it provided an alternative come lease renewal time.

But, for the last year and a bit, I would have to wholeheartedly agree. Sportwagon stopped what was a very downward sales trajectory of the Commodore because at that time,

heres a sales graph of the large car segment.



sportwagon was released in july 2008. apart from the odd spike here and there i can't really see any upward trend or levelling out compared with falcon and aurion.

the one area that commodore seems to have widened the gap a little is in 2006 which one would assume was the release of the VE, however looking back, the gap has widened and closed all through history. for all we know, the gap could narrow again through 2012 or it could widen further. when you look at it with a much broader view, its not as bad as what everyone tries to make out. its annoying the amount of commentators who make out its a problem unique to falcon.

the fact of the matter has been touched on a couple of times already in this thread. for most people, large cars don't make sense anymore. the only people that still buy them are those that NEED to, and those that WANT to. both those groups are small groups. small cars today are no longer that small and are no longer is there a compromise on equipment. often, the smaller cars actually have more features.

people just need to accept the fact that falcon (and the large car segment) is a bit part player now.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

heres a sales graph of the large car segment.

image

sportwagon was released in july 2008. apart from the odd spike here and there i can't really see any upward trend or levelling out compared with falcon and aurion.

the one area that commodore seems to have widened the gap a little is in 2006 which one would assume was the release of the VE, however looking back, the gap has widened and closed all through history. for all we know, the gap could narrow again through 2012 or it could widen further. when you look at it with a much broader view, its not as bad as what everyone tries to make out. its annoying the amount of commentators who make out its a problem unique to falcon.

the fact of the matter has been touched on a couple of times already in this thread. for most people, large cars don't make sense anymore. the only people that still buy them are those that NEED to, and those that WANT to. both those groups are small groups. small cars today are no longer that small and are no longer is there a compromise on equipment. often, the smaller cars actually have more features.

people just need to accept the fact that falcon (and the large car segment) is a bit part player now.

A graph's Y-axis scale can mask or exaggerate trends. What you need to do is graph a trend-line before Sportwagon release and then a trend line after. You will also need a trend line for the large car segment pre and post Sportwagon release to see how much they converge or diverge.

What you will see is that the Commodore was trending downwards until Sportwagon where the trend then levels out. you will have other factors muddying the water like the fact that the product is ageing which means sales will lessen over time regardless.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A graph's Y-axis scale can mask or exaggerate trends. What you need to do is graph a trend-line before Sportwagon release and then a trend line after. You will also need a trend line for the large car segment pre and post Sportwagon release to see how much they converge or diverge.

What you will see is that the Commodore was trending downwards until Sportwagon where the trend then levels out. you will have other factors muddying the water like the fact that the product is ageing which means sales will lessen over time regardless.

i think that graph tells enough of the story. if you look at the commodore in isolation, you could argue that mid 2008, there was a slight halt to the downward trend and a spike in sales and then the downward trend again albeit slightly higher. this would seem to back up the theory that sportwagon sales were largely extra sales.

personally i think the graph shows that mid 2008 all 3 models had a slight rise in fortunes.

my argument is, in my opinion, if sportwagon wasn't available, commodore would still be selling similar numbers to what it is selling.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A graph's Y-axis scale can mask or exaggerate trends. What you need to do is graph a trend-line before Sportwagon release and then a trend line after. You will also need a trend line for the large car segment pre and post Sportwagon release to see how much they converge or diverge.

What you will see is that the Commodore was trending downwards until Sportwagon where the trend then levels out. you will have other factors muddying the water like the fact that the product is ageing which means sales will lessen over time regardless.

Any good at statistical analysis? I forgot how to do it but I have the Excel data set for this graph, which is Commodore sales since 2006.



To me it looks as though Commodore sales have flattened out since 2009.

[Neale]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Was talking to my old man about this today and he was saying the mazda 3 is close to 1700 kg, about 8inches wider than a vb commodore, and about 4 inches shorter. I think our definition of a small car is changing, rather than people actually wanting smaller cars.

I agree that cars like the Mazda 3 & focus are not really small cars anymore.

I dont know about the exact size differences, but I went from a ED falcon to a LS (06) focus, which is similar to the mazda 3 in alot of ways.

I prefer the focus in alot of ways. I can fit far more in the hatch than I would be able to fit in a Falcon, the fuel economy is heaps better & I can still fit 5 people in it on the rare occasion that I do. The focus is also more fun to drive than the falcon.

Sure I cant tow a horse trailer or car trailer. Not that I have needed to. But I can still tow up to 800kg in a box trailer.

On top of that the resale is far better than the same model falcon. For example heres a 2006 model Falcon & Focus resale comparison.

Focus LS CL 5 speed manual
$20,990 now worth $8,400 - $10,100

BF XT sedan 5 speed manual
$34,880 now worth $8,200 - $9,900

I dont think I will ever buy a falcon ever again. If I did need a larger car I would be looking at something like a mazda 6 or modeo for the same reasons.

[XR Martin]

Your old man is wrong, very wrong

[K10wN]

Small/Medium cars have caught up in power, options, finish, and most of all reliability. With all the same quality for less money, the question should be why would you buy a Falcon. I could only see that it would be bought by those who buy it just for the name and it's heritage.

I wouldn't buy one. In fact, Ford hasn't made a car I would consider buying in the last 10 years. Even then I didn't want a FWD car, but you buy it because there's nothing else unless you go for an older car.

Last Falcon I owned was an XF S-Pack, an XE S-pack before that, a Sundowner XC panelvan before that. I got my licence in an XA GT Coupe, and had an XW 302 Fairmont on my learners.

In the 60's, 70's, 80's and the beginning of the 90's the big Fords/Holdens were the best, most reliable vehicle on the road in Austalia, and for the same money for an import you got less car, that wasn't overly reliable and expensive on parts. It made sense then to buy a Falcon.

All this before you even consider the reduction in protection to the local manufacturers in trade policy in recent times.

If I look at what's on the market today I'd be looking at a BMW. But then I look at the type of people driving them and come to my senses.