Goodbye Holden Commodore?

FG_Frodza · 22-02-2012, 08:09 AM

Spotted this article going through the news this morning.

Says the article was posted early this morning.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...cument&src=rss

Quote:

The iconic Holden Commodore will be replaced within five or six years, as parent company General Motors seeks to revamp the Holden brand in an effort to protect its Australian manufacturing base, according to The Australian Financial Review.
Tim Lee, the Shanghai-based president of GM's international operations, told the newspaper the Commodore would be succeeded by a "global" car with a wider appeal within Australia and abroad.
“It’s still an outstanding motor vehicle and one that we intend to produce for a long time,” Mr Lee said.
“But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

Mr Lee said the decision wouldn't affect the roll-out of the new-generation Commodore VE, which will be released next year.

Dr Smith · 22-02-2012, 08:17 AM

The story has also been mentioned on 3AW this morning. I think it's more a case that a car VE-sized won't be built after VF rather then "no Commodore at all". Can't wait to see the Holden PR machine hose this one down and keep it positive, especially while waiting to reach an agreement for funds from the feds.

FG_Frodza · 22-02-2012, 08:32 AM

Wonder where they will make this new 'global' car? I doubt they will make it here in Adelaide, probably Korea..

Rastus · 22-02-2012, 08:38 AM

Just heard this on the radio myself.
Now, I wonder what the spin will be from particular media outlets? All Doom & Gloom negative gear like we get when anything to do with Falcon's future is mentioned?

FG_Frodza · 22-02-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastus

Just heard this on the radio myself.
Now, I wonder what the spin will be from particular media outlets? All Doom & Gloom negative gear like we get when anything to do with Falcon's future is mentioned?

Doubt it, probably more like 'Holden are going to re-invent themselves' or something along those lines.

**Polyal** · 22-02-2012, 09:20 AM

If they beat Ford to the punch with a GWRD car, a proper one, ill hurl.

blk6t · 22-02-2012, 09:33 AM

I think the Falcon will be gone before the Commodore, having said that, I don't think the Commodore will dissapear. As mentioned I think Holden will produce a smaller Commodore in Aus but still keep the car bigger than the Cruze.

Buntz · 23-02-2012, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blk6t

I think the Falcon will be gone before the Commodore, having said that, I don't think the Commodore will dissapear. As mentioned I think Holden will produce a smaller Commodore in Aus but still keep the car bigger than the Cruze.

Introducing the next Commodore... complete with 4cyl, and 6cyl engines.

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-compact-car.html

Nic85 · 23-02-2012, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

you totallt misunderstood me..and it shows how far of that viewpoint is. If you go from a tiny car to a big car there are so many pros and cons between them...and they tend to level themselves out. Just because people want smaller economic cars these days does not mean the large car market has to turn into a small car....cus thats essentially what your saying. think about it. the falcon allready has economy better then most smaller cars...is safer..more comfortable...can tow..blah blah blah...the small cars can squash you...kill you in a crash with a large car...and can sense rain...omg.BIG CARS ARE IN THEIR CLASS FOR A REASON...they offer different things to small cars.Its just a fact.
dont confuse sales shares for carclasses and the need they fill. AFTER ALL IF A FALCON HAD ALL THIS TECH YOU WANT..AND KEEPTS ITS REDEEMING QUALITIES...THERE WOULDNT BE A REASON IN HELL TO BUY A SMALL CAR WOULD THERE NOW. Same fuel..theyd be a bargain..big... comfie...roomie..techy..safe..can tow...WHAT WOULD BE THE USE OF DIFF CAR CLASSES

Do you understand where im coming from?

Yes mate, I understand completely where you're coming from. Falcon is a large car and a niche product and should be kept that way because that's what a Falcon is, is basically what you're saying, right?

Well, look, I'm sorry man, but it won't be anything soon if things continue the way they are going. What I'm saying is, why continue to build a niche product that sells less and less each month when you can make a change and build something people will actually buy more of? A car that's cheaper to make because of a global platform, with more profits. I don't think you've quite grasped the fact that the Falcon is near the end of its life. But hey, I could be completely wrong. EB4 and EcoLPi could turn everything around and the Falcon could go back to selling 4000 cars a month again. Wouldn't that be something, hey?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

you know whats funny...you NEVER hear complaints about tech in commadores on the holden sites...because their not trying to justify bad sales figures...they sell lots as is...and guess what....falcon/commadore are clones..they have the same tech levels...expalin that????

Commodore is in the same boat as Falcon. Holden have said themselves that going forward they have made the arrangements to produce more Cruze than Commodore as they can see Cruze will soon outsell Commodore. I see Holden with a plan... Ford... Not so sure...

I don't want you to think I'm hating on the product, because I'm not. I think Falcon is a good product. I'm just being realistic.

1TUFFUTE · 23-02-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Yes mate, I understand completely where you're coming from. Falcon is a large car and a niche product and should be kept that way because that's what a Falcon is, is basically what you're saying, right?

Well, look, I'm sorry man, but it won't be anything soon if things continue the way they are going. What I'm saying is, why continue to build a niche product that sells less and less each month when you can make a change and build something people will actually buy more of? A car that's cheaper to make because of a global platform, with more profits. I don't think you've quite grasped the fact that the Falcon is near the end of its life. But hey, I could be completely wrong. EB4 and EcoLPi could turn everything around and the Falcon could go back to selling 4000 cars a month again. Wouldn't that be something, hey?

Commodore is in the same boat as Falcon. Holden have said themselves that going forward they have made the arrangements to produce more Cruze than Commodore as they can see Cruze will soon outsell Commodore. I see Holden with a plan... Ford... Not so sure...

I don't want you to think I'm hating on the product, because I'm not. I think Falcon is a good product. I'm just being realistic.

nope you still dont get it...people hear are saying that the reason for falcons low sales is because it hasnt the tech of the small cars...what a load of garbage because in basic terms what they lack in tech in a large car they more then make up for in other redeeming qualities. Theres no doubt comadores and falcons have to change to global platforms and so on to make them viable to be built here...otherwise well just get straight imports....thats not the point here tho. People ar saying falcon sux in this market because of lack of small car tech....WHAT ABOUT THE COMMADORE...it has the same tech levels as a falcon...and the falcon is a much better car.

what people dont understand is that if you have two cars one small and one large...the big one cost alot more to engineer and build...hence cost more....COSTING more is why falcon is dieing...people want cheap

Nic85 · 23-02-2012, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Introducing the next Commodore... complete with 4cyl, and 6cyl engines.

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-compact-car.html

Interesting to note the dimensions of the ATS. It's a full 30cm shorter than the current Commodore and more than 120kgs lighter. This is where I think the future is - in that BMW 3 series sized car. It's plenty big enough for average Joe and even Joe's wife and couple kids. The lighter kerb weight means you can use smaller displacement DI turbo engines like Ecoboost etc and get exceptional performance, but also excellent fuel economy. The new BMW 328i has a 2L turbo making 180kW/350Nm, does 0-100km/h in 6.1s and does 6.3L/100km. The key is the weight, at 1455kgs.

Mr Hardware · 22-02-2012, 09:54 AM

why don't they just build a torana, RWD with a 2.8L DI straight six outputting 170kw and 280nm, with a tiny bit of brake regeneration just for elec power steer and aircon, doing 6.5L/100klms?

dylancox · 22-02-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

why don't they just build a torana, RWD with a 2.8L DI straight six outputting 170kw and 280nm, with a tiny bit of brake regeneration just for elec power steer and aircon, doing 6.5L/100klms?

why don't Ford build a Cortina, RWD with a 2.0L EcoBoost outputting 180kw and 350nm, with a tiny bit of brake regeneration just for elec power steer and aircon, doing 6.0L/100klms?

EDManual · 22-02-2012, 09:59 AM

In our dollars at the moment, what they could produce a commodore or falcon in thailand for? Its just lucky they dont, or we wouldnt be making either of them thats for sure.

Kryton · 22-02-2012, 10:24 AM

it isnt hard to glue a Commodore badge to a Cruze and call it a Commodore.
They glued Holden badges to Daewoos and suckers still bought them thinking they were Holdens.

whales · 24-02-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

it isnt hard to glue a Commodore badge to a Cruze and call it a Commodore.
They glued Holden badges to Daewoos and suckers still bought them thinking they were Holdens.

Exactly!!

falconnut · 22-02-2012, 10:40 AM

Thank god.

Current Commodores are kinda stale.

Some fresh GRWD cars would be great.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 22-02-2012, 10:51 AM

Commodore = Chevy Malibu
Falcon = Fusion/Taurus

there, now check back here in 4 or 5 years.

johnydep · 22-02-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Commodore = Chevy Malibu
Falcon = Fusion/Taurus

there, now check back here in 4 or 5 years.

I reckon your right, except it should be Mondeo/Fusion

The 2012 Mondeo/Fusion has similar dimensions to the Falcon

The Malibu, which will be released in Oz soon, has similar dimensions to the Commodore.

Why?

mik · 22-02-2012, 10:54 AM

he`s right about one thing, you look in the car parks and 5 out of ten are small/medium cars, the other 5 are suv`s and big cars, if the cost of living keeps going we will probably end up driving these.

Cheese3 · 22-02-2012, 11:02 AM

both locally made falcon and commodore will be gone by 2017. Its going to happen, deal with it.

Chilliman · 22-02-2012, 12:15 PM

Interestingly there is very little in the automotive media about it. Maybe the 'pro-holden' journalists and editors belive that if they ignore it the bad news will go away

Of course if the story was about the Ford Falcon, everyone would be in on it, laying the boots in!

xe351 · 22-02-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Interestingly there is very little in the automotive media about it. Maybe the 'pro-holden' journalists and editors belive that if they ignore it the bad news will go away

Of course if the story was about the Ford Falcon, everyone would be in on it, laying the boots in!

ah so true!!!

Dr Smith · 22-02-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Interestingly there is very little in the automotive media about it. Maybe the 'pro-holden' journalists and editors belive that if they ignore it the bad news will go away

Of course if the story was about the Ford Falcon, everyone would be in on it, laying the boots in!

Quote:

“But if you look at the motorway here in Melbourne, you see a lot of small cars. You see a lot of more fuel-efficient vehicles on the roads than Commodore.”

If it was a Ford story the headline would be "Ford international boss slams Falcon economy".

LTDHO · 22-02-2012, 12:22 PM

I'm sure the government will bail them out... again.

Trevor 57 · 22-02-2012, 12:24 PM

Most of the Commodore bits are already made in China and shipped out here for assembly, with the exception of the engine.

Chilliman · 22-02-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Most of the Commodore bits are already made in China and shipped out here for assembly, with the exception of the engine.

Most of the bits for the V6 engine are also made somewhere else and shipped here for assembly. The V8 is shipped here, pre-assembled, in a crate.

turbodewd · 22-02-2012, 01:38 PM

This Tim Lee is an idiot. The commodore has been number 1 or 2 in Aus sales for years!

Dr Smith · 22-02-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

This Tim Lee is an idiot. The commodore has been number 1 or 2 in Aus sales for years!

Except he's looking at the future and even Holden has openly stated they don't expect the Commodore to be No. 1 again. No where in the world are FG/VE sized cars big sellers anymore. And one could argue that the VE hasn't pulled in the profits anyway. The new Malibu is based on a 2008 platform (iirc) so it wouldn't be too far out that an all-new design Malibu is needed just before an all-new Commodore replacement is also needed.

Trevor 57 · 22-02-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Except he's looking at the future and even Holden has openly stated they don't expect the Commodore to be No. 1 again. No where in the world are FG/VE sized cars big sellers anymore. And one could argue that the VE hasn't pulled in the profits anyway. The new Malibu is based on a 2008 platform (iirc) so it wouldn't be too far out that an all-new design Malibu is needed just before an all-new Commodore replacement is also needed.

I have read somewhere that someone did a stack of research and discovered (remarkedly) that the "BIG" cars (FG/VE) actually are not that different in size to many "MID" sized cars, I am not sure who or where but it was very interesting reading, he collated all the data on car specs.