Caltex axes up to 630 jobs with refinery closure

[KIWI-1]

Petroleum company Caltex will close its Kurnell refinery in Sydney in a move that will cost up to 630 jobs, with unions claiming the announcement is a "kick in the guts" to Australian motorists.
Caltex said the refinery would be closed in the second half of 2014 and would be converted to a "major import terminal" to supply imported fuel for Australian customers. The closure would eliminate about 330 direct positions, and as many as 300 contracting jobs.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/ca...#ixzz21ganETwg

[350125GO]

"Caltex has clearly stated that the introduction of the carbon price was not a factor in the decision to close the refinery," he said.

Had to get this out of the way.

Was listening on the radio, apparently is a 1950s design, and the scale on which it refines is dwarfed by super refineries in Asia. Am not a fan of having no refineries in Sydney at all, but when the company is losing money...

[JG34JA]

First thing I think of is FDR turning off Japan's oil in July, 1941

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

First thing I think of is FDR turning off Japan's oil in July, 1941

The Caltex news conference on SkyBusiness have them assuring us of import supply. They mention Korea as a source, and India, and that their new import supply deals, is for them attractive.

Not one journalist asked about 'strategic supply' in the face of changing geo-political realities; China asserting itself in the South China Sea and their willingness to use naval force as a means to deter other SE Asian nations from claim to the various contested locations in that region.

Unions on Sky screaming about O'Farrell, its their fault blah, angry at Caltex, annoyed that Woolworths will now offer, as a result - fully imported refined from OS fuel.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Most refineries in Australia date from the 1950's and 1960's. I don't know how old the others actually are (BP's Bulwer Island facility in QLD for example, and Shell's in Geelong) but for example the BP refinery in Kwinana WA started production in 1955.

That time period was when Australia actually had wealther and manufacturing. Heck, the RAAF even built and paid a Malaysian chap monies for construction of RAAF base Butterworth and radio station. We, under RAAF budget, even funded and ran the primary and high school at Penang. THAT was national wealth, the school btw was based on the then NSW system. Today - we couldn't afford a bus!

China have built a new refinery for their use, costing 6 billion USD at Yanbu in Saudi Arabia. They are not buying supply in USD either.

The yanks haven't built a new refinery for decades.

[crymoarpls]

thanks for taking the time to provide information on this kiwi1.

i certainly appreciate your effort to keep us informed.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

Had to get this out of the way.

Was listening on the radio, apparently is a 1950s design, and the scale on which it refines is dwarfed by super refineries in Asia. Am not a fan of having no refineries in Sydney at all, but when the company is losing money...

Most refineries in Australia date from the 1950's and 1960's. I don't know how old the others actually are (BP's Bulwer Island facility in QLD for example, and Shell's in Geelong) but for example the BP refinery in Kwinana WA started production in 1955.

[Angeldust]

ouch.... this is not good news..

[kaniSS]

Start buying some Vaseline gents I bet you $100, fuel prices are going to sky rocket with this closure and importation proposal.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Start buying some Vaseline gents I bet you $100, fuel prices are going to sky rocket with this closure and importation proposal.

Will probably be cheaper.

As I said in another post:

Originally Posted by johnydep

It's getting too hard to run a business in Australia; too much red tape, regulation, licencing, auditing, taxes, levies, and the list goes on.

Business can handle that during the good times, but when things slow down they find there's not much room to move.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11372349

[Ducati888]

Heaps of fuel is already imported. United for example, and most non big chain providers. There is no evidence to prove that prices will go up, at least up any more than they otherwise would.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Heaps of fuel is already imported. United for example, and most non big chain providers. There is no evidence to prove that prices will go up, at least up any more than they otherwise would.

I believe we import around 60% and the price of oil is set by the commodity market so I dont see it increasing in price
As some have already posted our refineries are inefficient due to thier antequated design
Caltex wont upgrade them as the cost, time and the industrial relations nightmare to do this simply makes it unviable

we are fast loosing major manufacturing infrastructure to other countries yes because of cost but also the because of the difficult industrial relations landscape a company has to navigate to build something as intricate as a refinery
look at Victorias de sal plant
I was listening to a radio talk back show some months ago and it was alleged that if an employeee showed up for work at the desal plant , was breath tested and unfit to work they would be sent home with pay !

what hope do we have of being competitve of this alleged practice is acceptable

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

we are fast loosing major manufacturing infrastructure to other countries yes because of cost but also the because of the difficult industrial relations landscape a company has to navigate

The loss of manufacturing jobs here in OZ as with most of the western developed world, harps back to The Lima Agreement of 1976 when these worlds - were 'by design' - to send their manufacturing jobs to developing countries; like China of the time.

Started off here by Whitlam, finalised in contract by Andrew Peacock.

You need to read the RESOLUTIONS, scroll down:-
http://fairdinkumradio.com/?q=node/20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnKJ...2B83B865EB2B53
(Disclaimer - I am not involved in any manner with any party, links here only serve to tell the story).

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

The loss of manufacturing jobs here in OZ as with most of the western developed world, harps back to The Lima Agreement of 1976 when these worlds - were 'by design' - to send their manufacturing jobs to developing countries; like China of the time.

Started off here by Whitlam, finalised in contract by Andrew Peacock.

You need to read the RESOLUTIONS, scroll down:-
http://fairdinkumradio.com/?q=node/20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPnKJ...2B83B865EB2B53
(Disclaimer - I am not involved in any manner with any party, links here only serve to tell the story).

Good god not another conspriracy theory
Mate I do believe that we are fed bull s&@t by politicians and the elite rich are treated diffently and there are powerful organizations that have a big say on the way the world is run but Caltex are pulling out because they are going to make more money by going off shore
I don't think there is any conspiracy here

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

Good god not another conspriracy theory
Mate I do believe that we are fed bull s&@t by politicians and the elite rich are treated diffently and there are powerful organizations that have a big say on the way the world is run but Caltex are pulling out because they are going to make more money by going off shore
I don't think there is any conspiracy here

I didn't say there was. I linking, I was responding to another poster about manufacturing-in-AUS, not about Caltex per se.

The Lima Agreement is not a conspiracy, I was simply pointing out 'why', as one key reason, we and the western world have had our manufacturing jobs go offshore. You need to read those resolutions.

I'm not paying attention to what folk on the sites are saying, if thats where your getting the conspiracy idea.

[something wrong]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

I was listening to a radio talk back show some months ago and it was alleged that if an employeee showed up for work at the desal plant , was breath tested and unfit to work they would be sent home with pay !

what hope do we have of being competitve of this alleged practice is acceptable

It Will be coming to a NSW soon, talk about doing it on large construction sites, the high profile type.

[Road_Warrior]

Ok let me get this straight. When Kurnell closes, the only refineries in operation Australia wide will be the two BP refineries - Kwinana and Bulwer Island?? Shell's Clyde refinery is already closing next year, and the Shell refinery in Geelong is under a cloud..? What next?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What next?

the assylum seeker boats will start going the other way

[XC GXL]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Ok let me get this straight. When Kurnell closes, the only refineries in operation Australia wide will be the two BP refineries - Kwinana and Bulwer Island?? Shell's Clyde refinery is already closing next year, and the Shell refinery in Geelong is under a cloud..? What next?

Caltex still have Lyton in Brisbane. Not sure if that is going to close.

Wayne

[stalker]

the writing is on the wall...

[poppa smurf]

more jobs go overseas.......we will be importing our welfare benefits shortly.....nothing left in Australia

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

more jobs go overseas.......we will be importing our welfare benefits shortly.....nothing left in Australia

We already import and export pensions through reciprocal arrangements.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

We already import and export pensions through reciprocal arrangements.

yes and when we are all out of work and getting our $2 per day dole payments imported from china what will we do

I feel we should build that new refinery and a lot more besides......we need big thinkers.... not salesman in government

[Road_Warrior]

From a WA perspective, when I used to work in the industry (12+ years ago), approximately 80% of product was sourced from the Kwinana refinery, the rest was imported. No clue as to the import v local production percentage breakdown now, however I can tell you to construct a new refinery in Australia you'd expect a bill of close to $1 Billion, for a lot of the reasons already mentioned by others above.

[XC GXL]

I used to work as a mechanical engineer on the Kurnell refinery (also worked on the Shell Corio refinery) and it was designed for sweet crude from bass straight however most of the crude now is sour (South African crude for example) and to upgrade is a huge capital outlay plus the cost of disposing of the sulphur.
Most of the refineries in the UK (where I now live and work) are 1960's/70's design and build and have similar problems. Coryton has just closed over here as it is no loger a viable asset (PetroPlus went to the wall last year).
Kurnell was/is a good refinery very well maintained but unfortunatelly uncompetitive in todays market and Caltex were one of the best companies I have worked for.

Sad time for Caltex and the great guys that work there.

Wayne

[KIWI-1]

Not Caltex I know, but it probably fits in with this discussion.

Qantas engine plant to close, more jobs sent offshore

More jobs have been lost in Victoria's aviation industry today, with Qantas joint venture company LTQ Engineering set to close in September with the loss of 164 skilled jobs.
The company was set up in a partnership between Qantas and Lufthansa in 2008 to overhaul engines, with a view to securing work from other Asian Pacific airlines.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...#ixzz21i5uSw8h

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Not Caltex I know, but it probably fits in with this discussion.

Qantas engine plant to close, more jobs sent offshore

More jobs have been lost in Victoria's aviation industry today, with Qantas joint venture company LTQ Engineering set to close in September with the loss of 164 skilled jobs.
The company was set up in a partnership between Qantas and Lufthansa in 2008 to overhaul engines, with a view to securing work from other Asian Pacific airlines.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...#ixzz21i5uSw8h

A good mate works there, just got off the phone he is gutted.
Forget the GFC the real crisis is on us now.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by mr smith

A good mate works there, just got off the phone he is gutted.

Thoughts go out to the many in this situation.

Originally Posted by mr smith

Forget the GFC the real crisis is on us now.

You reckon? I think it will come when those big holes in the ground are deserted.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Forget the GFC the real crisis is on us now.

Dont want to scare anyone, but we are no where near finished with the global financial hardship yet, not by along shot ...

Better start learning to be self sufficient, cause when we are nearly all outta work , there will be no tax money to pay for those unemployed and the tap will get turned of
Some countries are running 3 outta 10 unemployed,this country cant handle that amount,we are under 10 % now its only gunna get worse

As for the fuel refinery , well we will have to by electric powered now wont we

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Dont want to scare anyone, but we are no where near finished with the global financial hardship yet, not by along shot ...

Better start learning to be self sufficient, cause when we are nearly all outta work , there will be no tax money to pay for those unemployed and the tap will get turned of
Some countries are running 3 outta 10 unemployed,this country cant handle that amount,we are under 10 % now its only gunna get worse

As for the fuel refinery , well we will have to by electric powered now wont we

You know I dont think I even saw this level of scaremongering in 91, when we actually did have a recession.

Unemployment currently sits at around mid 5%, interest rates are at the lowest level ever, the economy just celebrated 21 years without a recession, which is a WORLD record by the way, our GDP has been at the upper end of world standards for the last few years and the agencies I use for labour hire cant find enough humans with a pulse, and everyone is convinced the world is going to end? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING??????????????????????

All your seeing is what has been happening within our economy for the last 20 or 30 years. Old inefficient industries that have not updated plant and technology at the expense of profit taking are now so uncompetitive the capital cost of modernising is beyond a reasonable pay back level, so they quit the market. Only difference is today is more immediate reporting in the media and scare campaigns sell...........

Its a natural life cycle for the economy. Jobs lost here are repalced in other industries and the world moves on.............

I think overall more brand new businesses opened their doors yesterday than existing business closed...........its just that one gets reported and one dosnt.

[mik]

Originally Posted by XWGT

You know I dont think I even saw this level of scaremongering in 91, when we actually did have a recession.

Unemployment currently sits at around mid 5%, interest rates are at the lowest level ever, the economy just celebrated 21 years without a recession, which is a WORLD record by the way, our GDP has been at the upper end of world standards for the last few years and the agencies I use for labour hire cant find enough humans with a pulse, and everyone is convinced the world is going to end? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING??????????????????????

All your seeing is what has been happening within our economy for the last 20 or 30 years. Old inefficient industries that have not updated plant and technology at the expense of profit taking are now so uncompetitive the capital cost of modernising is beyond a reasonable pay back level, so they quit the market. Only difference is today is more immediate reporting in the media and scare campaigns sell...........

Its a natural life cycle for the economy. Jobs lost here are repalced in other industries and the world moves on.............

I think overall more brand new businesses opened their doors yesterday than existing business closed...........its just that one gets reported and one dosnt.

i don`t know if i believe those employment figures to be representative of real full time employment, my own opinion is a lot of those employed are part timers and the actual full time employment is worse off, another point some of these "inefficient" industry`s that people talk of, some are no doubt but some that are labor intensive and or energy intensive are very difficult or impossible in some cases to do better unless either cheaper labor or cheaper energy comes along,
no amount of solar panels is going to help a steel smelter for example, they rely on masses of power to heat the raw materials, it`s a bit easy to look at Australia as a whole and say we are`nt doing to bad compared to other countries with out resources ,while we are riding on mining/resource sectors back, lets see what happens if the resource sector has the predicted slow down, myself i firmly believe in the two speed economy, a percentage is doing it harder while the other percentage is coasting along at the moment, i hope we are as well off as some say.