backdoor way to sell more ve utes?

[au2000]

saw this on another forum recently, the poster has a ve ute:

WARNING to all VE Commodore ute owners

In the past if you damaged a quarter panel on a VE Commodore ute Holden would supply your panel beater with a new quarter panel for around $750.00. Insurance companies have all been advised via email that Holden is no longer supplying VE ute quarter panels saying that removing a quarter panel and fitting a new one will structurally effect there product. Holden will only supply a complete quarter section making the repair job very costly. I spoke to GIO today about my ute which has minor damage to the LHS quarter panel from a white post when I left the road and on that basis alone my car will written off. When I spoke to my panel beater he said that’s correct and he had just written off a VE ute with damage to the door and LHS quarter panel due to the above reasons. This could make insurance companies raise the cost of insuring a VE ute as they are now to costly to repair.

maybe someone in the industry can confirm that a ve ute is now easier to write off? seems a bit strange that some rear quater panel damage on a ute will be enough for it to be written off???

[Nikked]

Never have been able to buy a quarter panel in the form of a 'skin' (say, like a VN-VZ style)

The quarters are only available as a complete side pressing, including the door frame. To replace this panel, you need to remove the dash, and (in some cases) the engine, and the roof. Now, you need a new roof aswell.

Its done like this as there is no technical data on where the panel can be cut and re-welded without effecting the crashworthiness of the product (there is data for VE sedans, where the quarter is only available as a side pressing aswell).


So yep, big job, the shop could try repairing the existing panel.

[aussie muscle]

still it doesn't sound like the cost of replacing that panel should exceed the value of your vehicle, unless it's like over 5 years old. Ford had the right idea with having the tub a separate component. it might not look as good but it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper to replace.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

still it doesn't sound like the cost of replacing that panel should exceed the value of your vehicle, unless it's like over 5 years old. Ford had the right idea with having the tub a separate component. it might not look as good but it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper to replace.

It would if half the car has to be dismantled to do it, and then the whole car resprayed so the panels match,.

[pottery beige]

bog.. lots of it..

[2011G6E]

I'm afraid I've seen too many brand new or several months old cars of all makes written off for what would once have been a bit of a shunt, or even hail damage, to laugh too loud at Holden...

For instance, back when there was a massive hail storm through the nearby town of Blackwater, the car transporters ran hot for a couple of weeks taking away all the insurance write-offs. One in particular was a workmates three month old lease car, a rough tough Toyota Hilux twin cab. It had been under a carport, and the only hail damage was a couple of small dents on the bonnet, a lot on the rear right hand guard and rear right hand passenger door, and a broken window on that door too.
Written off, down to the auctions in Brissy.

Many new cars are, basically, unrepairable without major investment and specialist workshops. Another workmate had an FG XR6T, and drove over a rock that came off the back of a truck doing a real Dick Johnson...it went straight through the middle under the car, smashing open the sump, damaging the crossmember, busting the pan on the auto, and damaging the diff and other bits under the middle of the car. The total? $30,000+ damage. It was assessed once to see if it could be fixed, and has now gone off to Mackay on a car transporter to be assessed again, as they aren't sure if they want to repair it.

To be blunt, I wouldn't want someone to let a full shopping trolley roll down a hill into our G6E in a parking lot...

[xe351]

is it the construction of the cars that make them write offs or is it the high cost of repair? (eg labour?)

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by xe351

is it the construction of the cars that make them write offs or is it the high cost of repair? (eg labour?)

My guess? Labour in fixing plus the risk of liability if something is missed in the repair and people are hurt or killed.

[Stefan]

It's only a problem because there is no such thing as a PANEL BEATER anymore, only PANEL REPLACERS.

If your car has minor damage why F does a panel beater require to replace the quarter panel.

Ask the smash repairer if he has ever heard of a slide hammer (If the shop is in Bankstown, Sydney, he probably has, except it's not used to fix panels).

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by xe351

is it the construction of the cars that make them write offs or is it the high cost of repair? (eg labour?)

Cost of repair, parts and consumables.

Lets break it down.


-You need to stripdown the car, including the dash (and engine, as some shops will)

-Drill off the old panel, remember, its an entire side

-To do this, you need to remove the roof aswell (more drilling, yay!)

Then you have to weld it all together, paint it, put it back together.


And there is the parts...

[Nikked]

Just a bit of info on (NSW) write offs...


Now that in most cases (bar the exceptions), the write cannot be re-registered, thus, the scrap price has dropped due to the higher rate of stat write-offs.

because of this, insurance companies are working up to 5% of the cars repair cost/value, as in some cases, they get more money out of the excess fees, rather then the scrap price and associated costs.

So the new write off rulings have infact, had a positive effect on the industry...to an extent.

[Jim Goose]

Hmm.. I know of newish 4WD which was hit by a big forklift tyne.
It went though the rear side window and through the rear door window.
A lot of damage was caused by the mast etc when it hit the quarter panel, not to mention the roof around the rear window.

When i saw the photos i figured it would be a write off...
6 weeks later I see the very 4WD in question at a local panel shop!
A few week later i see it outside again with the panel in primer..

Now that was a shock to actually see it repaired.

Ill try and dig up the photos of the damage (they are at work computer).

[BaraFGXR6]

I would put this down due to cost of repair not being the parts themselves but the actual labour involved.

It is unfortunate that panel beaters are becoming a thing of the past and we are seeing more panel replacers (as was said above). A good panel beater (not much left around) charges top dollar as they are in such high demand. May be worth it for a more expensive vehicle which the insurer would rather not pay out but for the average falcon and commodore - its just more cost effective to write the car off.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Reminds me of that Nissan GTR thread that went viral soon after their release. Some guy in the UK I think had a very minor low speed front end shunt and the repair was something like 20-25% of the value of the car.

Caused a TON of bad press for Nissan. In the end they got involved to clean up the mess I think.

You would think that with new designs they would make things easier? I remember walking around a newish BMW at a mechanic that was up on the hoist and he said they are much easier to work on (I think the engine/ transmission needed to be removed) compared to the local large cars as they were 'designed that way'.....

Don't know if there is any truth in it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

You would think that with new designs they would make things easier?

The main problem is lack of space as engine bays these days in modern cars tend to be fairly tight for space. Falcon/Territory isn't bad but FWD cars can be a nightmare.

2006 Civic is a bastard to service, in that particular case the oil filter is up in a spot where you have to take the front right wheel off, pull the rotor towards you and reach in from there to remove/replace the filter.

But the newer ones have the filter in a very easy spot to get to, right near the sump.

Some of the earlier 2000s Honda's have the oil filter right near the exhaust manifold which you can burn yourself pretty easy.

It all depends on what you have to do, fuel filters are in the tank, and in the case of a Civic Hybrid we found you have to drop the tank to get the fuel filter out as the access hatch is covered by the batteries in the back.

My particular experiences are Honda/Mercedes Sprinter and my own cars though, everything is different.

[BadMax]

Gee some people talk crap

Now these are the facts.

Up to approximately two years ago, GMH were supplying quarter panel skins for VE utes.
Approximately two years ago, they ceased production of the outer skins. This was done for one reason and one reason only. The way the rear bulkhead of the cabin was sealed in the factory could not be replicated outside of the production line.
The result of not being able to replicate the sealer resulted in noxious fumes entering the cabin.

As a result, GMH can supply what I like to call a 3/4 quarter panel. This requires a vertical join the entire length of the quarter panel approximately 150mm forward of the rear wheel arch. Now obviously a join of that size is incredibly difficult to perform.

Now, the fact of the matter it. GMH will supply a body side panel, which also includes all the inner structures of the side panel. To fit this there are guidelines produced by GMH, these include;

Removal of complete rear suspension assembly.
Removal of complete engine assembly including 'K' frame and suspension.
Removal of complete interior and all fittings.
Removal of turret.

For starters, that is a massive cost in labour and a significant cost in parts. Now for the so called 'experts', overheads are massive in the industry, not backyarders you may associate with.

Is it a ploy by GMH? It's to keep the occupants safe. To suggests it's a ploy to sell more utes is plain stupid. How many people would write off their six year old Commodore ute and replace it with a brand new one? Not many I'm guessing.

Link below for some further evidence:
http://iagresearch.com.au/index.php?...=186&Itemid=40

[cs123]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Gee some people talk crap

I don't see too many people disagreeing with you so I don't know why your feathers are getting ruffled.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by cs123

I don't see too many people disagreeing with you so I don't know why your feathers are getting ruffled.

....and, i alredy mentioned all but what he said...twice.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Is it a ploy by GMH? It's to keep the occupants safe. To suggests it's a ploy to sell more utes is plain stupid. How many people would write off their six year old Commodore ute and replace it with a brand new one? Not many I'm guessing.

it may not be a ploy to sell more utes, but it's a pathetically poor excuse of an engineering set up that it can't be done easily and cheaply and Holden should be chastised over it. period.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's only a problem because there is no such thing as a PANEL BEATER anymore, only PANEL REPLACERS.

If your car has minor damage why F does a panel beater require to replace the quarter panel.

Ask the smash repairer if he has ever heard of a slide hammer (If the shop is in Bankstown, Sydney, he probably has, except it's not used to fix panels).

There is a flip side of this. Say you get your $20,000+ car shunted one day by some clown. Which repair do you want, nice new paint and panel or bog? Don't you recall the old saying of if you're buying a used car, take a magnet to see if it's bog or not? Simply put, it ain't the panelbeaters fault that their art is dying, it's the publics doing for not accepting a bog job.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

There is a flip side of this. Say you get your $20,000+ car shunted one day by some clown. Which repair do you want, nice new paint and panel or bog? Don't you recall the old saying of if you're buying a used car, take a magnet to see if it's bog or not? Simply put, it ain't the panelbeaters fault that their art is dying, it's the publics doing for not accepting a bog job.

You may be right, but it should not require masses of bog to repair a dent. A good panel beater should be able to pull it out, file finish highfill and paint, which if done right is a better option than pulling a quarter off and potentially compromising the structure of the vehicle, introducing moisture in joints causing rust issues etc etc.

I guess we just moved the problem along, a dodgy operator will always cut corners and shiny paint hides a multitude of sins.

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by Stefan

A good panel beater should be able to pull it out, file finish highfill and paint,
I guess we just moved the problem along, a dodgy operator will always cut corners and shiny paint hides a multitude of sins.

Haha, you're funny. Try telling your insurance company that you demand file finished panels.

The majority of insurance companies fit recycled parts where appropriate on cars outside of warranty period and you expect file finish?

How many people when shopping for insurance purchase the most expensive wih all the bells and whistles?

[Stefan]

I'm not talking about file finishing a front guard on a hyundai that costs 100 buck to replace

But in the case of the OP, you think pulling out the entire interior cutting off the roof replacing a whole quarter section then painting the entire car is quicker than using a slide hammer and actually fixing the panel?

[2011G6E]

Has anyone ever discovered the cost of replacing, say, the rear quarter of an FG Falcon that has had a shunt on the corner? Looking at mine, I can see it would be a nightmare to try and blend in all those curves and joins...

I don't think us Ford drivers can feel too smug...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You may be right, but it should not require masses of bog to repair a dent. A good panel beater should be able to pull it out, file finish highfill and paint, which if done right is a better option than pulling a quarter off and potentially compromising the structure of the vehicle, introducing moisture in joints causing rust issues etc etc.

I guess we just moved the problem along, a dodgy operator will always cut corners and shiny paint hides a multitude of sins.

The shop im at, actually had to do a 1/4 replacement on a VE...as a rectification due to a shop that did just that...trying to repair it. And we had to follow the GM-H guidelines for repair (you can buy a VE repair manual from Holden).


The smash repair industry has gone beoynd hammer and filed, as car construction and material changes...simply heating up and a section of steal destroys all ghe strength in some metals these days...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Nikked

The shop im at, actually had to do a 1/4 replacement on a VE...as a rectification due to a shop that did just that...trying to repair it. And we had to follow the GM-H guidelines for repair (you can buy a VE repair manual from Holden).


The smash repair industry has gone beoynd hammer and filed, as car construction and material changes...simply heating up and a section of steal destroys all ghe strength in some metals these days...

how awesomesauce is this old school bro..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85...eature=related

[FGII-XR6]

A true artist they may need to go back to that for some repairs if replacement becomes too expensive

Originally Posted by pottery beige

how awesomesauce is this old school bro..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ_85...eature=related

[FGII-XR6]

a good panelbeaer will use next to no bog, the bog will be just for slight imperfections after beating the panel.
the ironic thing is that the decline in true panelbeating was a result of insurance wanting panel replacement as it was cheaper to replace than to repair. now we have expensive repairs the insurance industry has shot it self in the foot as there aren't many real beaters around. I predict a resurgence in proper panelbeating over the next 10 years

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

There is a flip side of this. Say you get your $20,000+ car shunted one day by some clown. Which repair do you want, nice new paint and panel or bog? Don't you recall the old saying of if you're buying a used car, take a magnet to see if it's bog or not? Simply put, it ain't the panelbeaters fault that their art is dying, it's the publics doing for not accepting a bog job.

[tankclare]

Its amazing seeing the amount of damage a well skilled panelbeater can fix. As mentioned earlier they are more along the lines of panel replacers these days. Its probably cheaper to just replace the whole car instead of fixing the damage.

Also you have to watch some dealerships. When I was doing my work experience at school I went to a panelbeating/spray painting workshop. While there some little gronks had thrown decent sized rocks at the brand new VE commodores at the holden dealership and damaged a heap of cars. This was when they first come out years ago. That workshop repaired and repainted damaged areas so good you couldnt notice they were ever damaged. It would be interesting to see if holden had the decency to tell the people who bought the brand new cars that they had been damaged before.

[flappist]

Ok guys, keep it civil and on topic please.