Ohio Judge finds speed cameras "unconstitutional"

[Brazen]

Judge finds cameras unconstitutional, when they kept operating he orders them seized.

Case came about due to drivers entering into a class action.

Very different environment to Australia!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...tempt/2465791/

CINCINNATI -- A judge found Elmwood Place, Ohio, and the company it hired in contempt of court Thursday because the village continued operating its speeding cameras and collecting fines even after the judge ordered the program shut down.

"Any money that was collected after my order has to be returned," Hamilton County Common Pleas Court Judge Robert Ruehlman ruled Thursday.

Ruehlman ruled March 7 that the 2012 Elmwood Place ordinance that allowed cameras and other equipment to be used to measure the speed of cars and ticket speeders without pulling them over was unconstitutional. At that time, he ordered a stop to the speeding camera program the Cincinnati suburb was using. The program brought the village more than $1 million while it operated.

Still, Lanham, Md.-based Optotraffic LLC, the company that runs the speed camera program for Elmwood Place, continued to issue citations, run the equipment and collect fines. Elmwood Place received 60% of the revenue from those fines.

"They continued to operate the equipment after I ordered them not to," the judge said, citing both Optotraffic and Elmwood Place with contempt of court. He also ordered the cameras and equipment confiscated.

They can clear that contempt, the judge added, by repaying $48,500 in speeding fines collected after his order and removing the traffic cameras.

"They flagrantly violated Judge Ruehlman's order. I think his response was extremely appropriate. He could have done a lot more," said Mike Allen, the attorney representing private citizens who sued the village of 2,200 over the speeding camera program.

Thirteen states and the District of Columbia have speed cameras operating in at least one location, according to the Governors Highway Safety Association. Ohio has 13 other jurisdictions that use them, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety says.

A dozen states have laws prohibiting them.

Ruehlman's ruling comes a day after Ohio lawmakers approved a measure that would bar local governments across the state from using cameras to determine whether motorists have run red lights or been speeding.

[csv8]

Bring him here !!!!

[Spurious]

Not another speed camera thread...yawn

[Trump]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

Not another speed camera thread...yawn

So you like getting pinged for being 3-4km/h over the limit by Officer Gatso and Constable LIDAR?

Class action.. bring it on!!!

[2011G6E]

Our constitution has nothing in it that gives any of us "rights" and would allow a challenge like this.

It's been honestly said that the difference between the American and the Australian constitution is that theirs was written by good men wanting to be free, and ours was very obviously written by a bunch of lawyers.

My favourite section of the constitution, the one which sums up the way it works (or doesn't work and is regularly ignored), is Section 100...

Nor abridge right to use water;
The Commonwealth shall not, by any law or regulation of trade or commerce, abridge the right of a State or of the residents therein to the reasonable use of the waters of rivers for conservation or irrigation.

...remember that the next time, for example, a farmer is prosecuted for using river water for irrigation...

[mik]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Our constitution has nothing in it that gives any of us "rights" and would allow a challenge like this.

It's been honestly said that the difference between the American and the Australian constitution is that theirs was written by good men wanting to be free, and ours was very obviously written by a bunch of lawyers.

My favourite section of the constitution, the one which sums up the way it works (or doesn't work and is regularly ignored), is Section 100...


...remember that the next time, for example, a farmer is prosecuted for using river water for irrigation...

I think you could if you had enough money to, you could challenge most Australian laws as being unconstitutional if you wanted to, ever wondered why countries disregard our territorial waters ???
Ever wondered why there is a copyright symbol on the australia coat of arms and why it is registered in the US ???

[steve.zissou]

remember - lots of judges get elected in the US

over here they are appointed - wax on wax off - one hand washing the other.

[FGII-XR6]

yet another "speed cameras are evil and are only there to persecute us" thread. even worse in this case it is totally irrelevant to all Australian states and territories . we are not covered by US law or the US constitution although you would think otherwise based on some comments on here relating to our right and coming straight from US TV shows.
A good example is the number of times you see members saying this or that is illegal because it is " entrapment" despite there being nothing in Australian law prohibiting entrapment.
Too many posters think they know it all because they have watched US legal shows and sprout their "legal knowledge" when in fact they know nothing and are not even intelligent enough to know the difference between reality and TV

[mik]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

yet another "speed cameras are evil and are only there to persecute us" thread. even worse in this case it is totally irrelevant to all Australian states and territories . we are not covered by US law or the US constitution although you would think otherwise based on some comments on here relating to our right and coming straight from US TV shows.
A good example is the number of times you see members saying this or that is illegal because it is " entrapment" despite there being nothing in Australian law prohibiting entrapment.
Too many posters think they know it all because they have watched US legal shows and sprout their "legal knowledge" when in fact they know nothing and are not even intelligent enough to know the difference between reality and TV

watch this video clip and tell me again .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVj5XQYAi8

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by mik

watch this video clip and tell me again .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVj5XQYAi8

Very interesting video. I've always believed that governments or those parading as such have the unique ability to think up ways to make money...from us the people. I learnt at a young age "what government wants, government gets"! We Aussies have unfortunately been brainwashed & trained not to question things, especially if it has a government logo attached. First Scott bought a product, then he paid to bring it to Australia, then customs stepped in & said "you can have "YOUR" item if you pay us!. Who the bloody hell put them in charge? It's no wonder the "government" did a national gun buy back scheme years ago. Lucky for them!

[Spurious]

I'm wondering, if I don't crash my car causing damage to person or property & then volunteer to help repair local roads & sign post's etc....can I NOT pay my annual registration fee???? To sort of keep to the topic, Is customs a government division put in place to "protect" our nation or a corporate entity invented purely for the purpose of making money which then goes offshore? Speed cameras are hated by those that like to speed!

[FGII-XR6]

I got about a quarter the way through it and didn't want to waste anymore time listening to a paranoid loony, I see no connection between this idiot and my post

Originally Posted by mik

watch this video clip and tell me again .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVj5XQYAi8

[jpblue1000]

Just a question to all you anti camera guys. If the Authorities came out and declared speed cameras were about revenue, they were a tax on getting places quicker than mandated, would that make you feel any better. would you continue to speed and or complain?

JP

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Just a question to all you anti camera guys. If the Authorities came out and declared speed cameras were about revenue, they were a tax on getting places quicker than mandated, would that make you feel any better. would you continue to speed and or complain?

JP

If the govt was motivated by the revenue, they would publish estimates in increased revenue from added speed cameras. Oh wait, they do!

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226671622768

[jimmyxr6t04]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Just a question to all you anti camera guys. If the Authorities came out and declared speed cameras were about revenue, they were a tax on getting places quicker than mandated, would that make you feel any better. would you continue to speed and or complain?

JP

If the 'speed tax' was proportionate to the time saved then i wouldn't have an issue... I'd gladly pay a couple of bucks tax to be able to drive freely, and not worry about my speedo every 10 seconds. I'd pay a $500 year tax to be excused of speeding fines within limits of course... For example, no more than 30km/h per hour over the limit on a freeway...

When i drive down a freeway without cruise control, my speed always gravitates to about 120-130km/h... very rarely does it exceed that speed... I wonder why? Maybe, it's because that is a comfortable speed for the conditions and without needing to check my speedo i know that the speed isn't fluctuating much at all.

As the years roll on, i feel more and oppressed. Can't do this, can't do that, pay tax this, pay tax that (alcopops, cigarettes, driving V8s, emissions) and the list goes on!

[mik]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I got about a quarter the way through it and didn't want to waste anymore time listening to a paranoid loony, I see no connection between this idiot and my post

fair enough mate, i watched the whole clip and didn't come to that conclusion but to each his own.

[poppa smurf]

HMmmm! american style vehicular law enforcement here.....I wonder how may would agree to their terms and methods of a "vehicle stop and search" if it was introduced here.

be very careful what you wish for.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

HMmmm! american style vehicular law enforcement here.....I wonder how may would agree to their terms and methods of a "vehicle stop and search" if it was introduced here.

be very careful what you wish for.

Vehicle stop and search is already here..... Ask me how I know!!


As for a class action.... Australians are too apathetic, too happy to let the other guy do their batting, too lazy.

Thats why our governments are constantly having really big poo poo's on us from a great height.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

HMmmm! american style vehicular law enforcement here.....I wonder how may would agree to their terms and methods of a "vehicle stop and search" if it was introduced here.

be very careful what you wish for.

Yeah that happens to me every day, guns pointed at me and everything. Usually happens after I get pitted though, so at least I know before hand. If only there were more speed cameras, I would feel MUCH safer!

[xxx000]

the last part which talks about banning red light cameras is concerning imho

even the most fervent 'govco' claimer would surely support the red light cameras here?

[dylby1]

I hate these "get rid of speed cameras" threads and posts.
If you're not speeding you won't have an issue, if you are speeding then you should deal with whatever is coming your way.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by xxx000

the last part which talks about banning red light cameras is concerning imho

even the most fervent 'govco' claimer would surely support the red light cameras here?

Red light cameras along with rail crossing cameras etc. are an important safety device PROVIDED there are lots of big signs indicating that they are there.

Even speed cameras set up in dangerous places with big signs such as in NSW are an important safety device.

Most people will not do dangerous things provided they know of the danger.
The purpose of safety equipment is to save lives not make money and the more money a red light camera/speed camera makes the greater failure it is.

Secret hidden speed cameras set up in places that are not inately dangerous with a focus on revinue and the dogma that under no circumstances in no place is it safe to exceed a number on a sign placed there by a public servant with no regard to the actual conditions over the instructions on a replicated form is what I and many others object to.

Originally Posted by dylby1

I hate these "get rid of speed cameras" threads and posts.
If you're not speeding you won't have an issue, if you are speeding then you should deal with whatever is coming your way.

Yeh I hate the "Nazis were bad" posts. If you did not worship in a Synagogue then you would not have been murdered in a death camp. That was the law at the time.....

Just because something is legal or supported by law does not automatically make it right or just.

[dylby1]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh I hate the "Nazis were bad" posts. If you did not worship in a Synagogue then you would not have been murdered in a death camp. That was the law at the time.....

Just because something is legal or supported by law does not automatically make it right or just.

That's about as far fetched a comparison as you can get. Completely irrelevant and unrelated.

Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't change the fact that its there. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow just because you disagree with them, and if you do choose to break them then you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dylby1

That's about as far fetched a comparison as you can get. Completely irrelevant and unrelated.

Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't change the fact that its there. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow just because you disagree with them, and if you do choose to break them then you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Which is exactly what happened in Germany.

It is VERY related. A group of people who were the democratically elected Government of a soverign country implemented a law and then applied penalties to those who transgressed the law.

It is interesting to note that those who "support" the law do not support the rights of others to question the law.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is interesting to note that those who "support" the law do not support the rights of others to question the law.

This is the reason these threads never reach any kind of resolve.

"Don't speed and you won't have any issues" is a lazy-minded response. People say that so they can dismiss the issue and remain ignorant of many other facets of this discussion. When this response is challenged these people choose to climb up on a pedestal and proclaim that they have never/not recently had a speeding ticket so it follows that they must be significantly better drivers than those who would question the law.

Simply giving people the instruction "Don't speed" is not related to whether or not they "Have any issues".

[GK]

Originally Posted by flappist

Which is exactly what happened in Germany.

It is VERY related. A group of people who were the democratically elected Government of a soverign country implemented a law and then applied penalties to those who transgressed the law.

It is interesting to note that those who "support" the law do not support the rights of others to question the law.

Indeed. If people do not have the right to challenge or question the law, then we are a very far cry from a democracy.

Which is what is taking place in our country at a great rate of knots.

The old "if you don't like speed cameras don't speed" argument ails me everytime.

That is not the point. It's the way 'safety' and 'concern' is often used to implement new taxation, from a moral high ground that makes it hard to question why such implementations take place.

There is simply way too much PC, group think and group speak going on in our nation. It's getting to the point that anyone who raises any questions against the powers that be are viewed as rednecks and irrational.

GK

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by dylby1

Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't change the fact that its there. You can't pick and choose what laws to follow just because you disagree with them, and if you do choose to break them then you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

So if there was a law that came about banning any use of TF Magnas, would you lie down and accept it or stand up and say it's wrong?

No difference here.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by flappist

Red light cameras along with rail crossing cameras etc. are an important safety device PROVIDED there are lots of big signs indicating that they are there.

Even speed cameras set up in dangerous places with big signs such as in NSW are an important safety device.

Most people will not do dangerous things provided they know of the danger.
The purpose of safety equipment is to save lives not make money and the more money a red light camera/speed camera makes the greater failure it is.

Great post Flappist, I never thought that the speed camera that makes the most money is obviously the biggest failure. But it is not doing what it is intended to do.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by flappist

Red light cameras along with rail crossing cameras etc. are an important safety device PROVIDED there are lots of big signs indicating that they are there.

Even speed cameras set up in dangerous places with big signs such as in NSW are an important safety device.

Most people will not do dangerous things provided they know of the danger.
The purpose of safety equipment is to save lives not make money and the more money a red light camera/speed camera makes the greater failure it is.

Secret hidden speed cameras set up in places that are not inately dangerous with a focus on revinue and the dogma that under no circumstances in no place is it safe to exceed a number on a sign placed there by a public servant with no regard to the actual conditions over the instructions on a replicated form is what I and many others object to.



Yeh I hate the "Nazis were bad" posts. If you did not worship in a Synagogue then you would not have been murdered in a death camp. That was the law at the time.....

Just because something is legal or supported by law does not automatically make it right or just.

That's not fully true flappy, their were Jews in high command etc of the Nazis and it was more like if you are not for us, you are against us deal, and that's a fact.
Aussies watch to much trash TV for there education.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

Red light cameras along with rail crossing cameras etc. are an important safety device PROVIDED there are lots of big signs indicating that they are there.

Even speed cameras set up in dangerous places with big signs such as in NSW are an important safety device.

Most people will not do dangerous things provided they know of the danger.

i have no problem with camera's for red light and train crossing, even if there is no signage!!

are you suggesting that without signage, people aren't aware of the dangers of running a red light?? or a train crossing?? i would find that very hard to believe from a rational thinker such as yourself.