Best and worst car brands

[DanielXR8]

Best and worst car brands
22 November 2006

Robert Wilson

AUSTRALIAN car-makers are among the industry's worst regarded brands, taking three of the bottom four spots in a customer satisfaction survey.

Holden and Mitsubishi came equal 11th and Ford came 12th out of 13 makers ranked in a Melbourne Business School survey released last week. Toyota was the top ranked local maker, at sixth.

The results painted "a very gloomy picture of the future of the local industry" said the survey's director, Melbourne Business School associate professor Mark Ritson.

He said local brands were being crippled by negative word-of-mouth and lagged far behind the prestige of German and Japanese makers. "The picture is of declining brands that are no longer generating enthusiasm in the majority of their customers," he said.

The survey, which measured how many owners would recommend the car they owned to friends, had proven to be an accurate predictor of future business performance, Mr Ritson said.

"By dividing people into brand detractors and promoters it reveals which brands have potential to grow. The major lesson that comes out is that if you allow a significant number of brand detractors to develop, your brand is in trouble," he said.

"When the majority of customers for a business are either passive or detractors it means the business gets very little customer advocacy, repeat sales or increased growth over the long term. The reason is because detractors spread more than 80 per cent of the word-of-mouth on a brand."

The survey found Mitsubishi, Holden and Ford all had more brand detractors than promoters, while Toyota was narrowly positive. "Based on our results, the conclusion has to be that Toyota has the best long-term growth prospects — indeed it is the only Australian maker with positive long-term prospects," Mr Ritson said.

The survey asked 2000 people one question: "How likely is it that you would recommend this company to a friend or colleague?" Subtracting negative from positive responses produced overall net promoter scores.

GM Holden spokesman Jason Laird said Holden scored consistently strongly in surveys among potential buyers. "Our intention-to-purchase results are consistently higher than for the overall market and that is borne out in sales data," he said. "While it would be nice to top every survey that comes out, the crux of the matter is we have had the country's top-selling car for the past decade."

Ford spokeswoman Sinead McAlary said the company would adopt the net promoter method for its own internal dealer surveys next year. "While we don't necessarily agree with the results of the survey, we do recognise a need to know more about our customers and improve the rate of referrals," she said.

The method had been used in the US for several years and had been adopted in British Ford dealerships this year.

Mitsubishi spokesman Kevin Taylor said the company accepted the need to continually improve customer service. "There's more we can do and it's our intention to increase the amount of customer interaction with our new vehicle owners in a program that we'll be starting next year," he said.

Mr Ritson said makers who responded to brand crises with conventional marketing tactics would not change long-term negative perceptions and could worsen their situation.

"There's a pressure in the automotive sector to discount, rebate and bundle, which is seen as offering more value," he said. "The lesson of this research is that such a tactic creates bad profits. It might shore up cashflow, but it attracts customers to a brand who buy because it's cheap. But when it doesn't meet their expectations, they end up spreading negative word of mouth about it, further hurting the brand."

The survey did not establish how old respondents' cars were, whether they were bought new or used, whether they were dealer-serviced or whether they were privately owned or company vehicles.

But Mr Ritson defended the survey method.

"This is frustrating research because it tells us nothing about why brands are going in certain directions. But it predicts with extreme rigour what to expect for brands, based on their scores," he said.

Net promoter scores collected overseas appeared to show a remarkably clear correlation with business growth, he said.

Leading the table were the German makers. BMW was top with a net promoter score of 59 per cent, Audi came second on 47 per cent, Volkswagen third on 45 per cent and Mercedes-Benz fourth on 39 per cent.

Results from owners of Lexus, Volvo and several other brands were not included in the results due to small sample sizes.

BRAND SATISFACTION RATINGS BY AUSTRALIANS

1. BMW: 59 per cent

2. Volkswagen: 47 per cent

3. Audi: 45 per cent

4. Mercedes: 39 per cent

5. Subaru: 37 per cent

6. Toyota: 13 per cent

7. Mazda: 12 per cent

8. Honda: 2 per cent

9. Nissan: -5 per cent

10. Hyundai: -9 per cent

11. Mitsubishi: -16 per cent

11. Holden: -16 per cent

12. Ford: -25 per cent

13. Saab: -47 per cent

Source: Melbourne Business School

The Australian

[Steffo]

I love it when statistics agree with what I say. German cars > Japanese.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I love it when statistics agree with what I say. German cars > Japanese.

Me to. Mitsubishi > Ford (in terms of customer satisfaction)

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Deadman

Me to. Mitsubishi > Ford (in terms of customer satisfaction)

Not surprised. With the kind of service Ford offers their customers, it could turn people off any otherwise good car. :

[RSgerry]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I love it when statistics agree with what I say. German cars > Japanese.

and just about everyone did better than ford. those german cars are also a lot more expensive than most japanese cars.

barnacaus, they didnt say how they obtained their respondents...they may well have gone to all the inner city cafes and asked people there. what they really need is a survey that contains a proprotional representation of every group...young, old, city, country etc. the fact that there are fewer bmw, audi and even volkswagens on the road means that the results were probably skewed a bit for thsoe brands. however, the results do tell the local manufacturers to lift their game. you only have to look at a lot of the posts on these pages to see how dissatisfed ford fans are becoming with the brand they love.

i know ford SAY they have no control over their dealers, but it is time they started to do something. if they get continual complaints about a certain dealership, then ford need to flex some muscle and do something. at worst, they need to scratch the dealer off their list. if the problem is with the cars, then ford need to listen and do something, instead of employing a spokesman to talk bullsh!t to the media with statements like 'it is something we at ford are very concerned about and will be implementing solutions in the near future'. sales are falling, petrol isnt getting cheaper and the brand image is taking a battering. relying on fleet sales is a tactic that is also going to go belly-up. ford, holden and mitsubishi need to lift their game and do it soon. otherwise the only local manufacturer left will be toyota and all we will have left to get excited about will be corollas and aurions.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I love it when statistics agree with what I say. German cars > Japanese.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but the way you put it across is that Japanese cars are the coming of Satan.

[Tony xa]

No repeat bussiness here in Australia just rip people once .I have found that minority car companies here in Oz treat people better eg bmw jeep etc .Ford holden etc have had it too good for to long and have forgotten what service is Monopoly for to long.

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by Tony xa

No repeat bussiness here in Australia just rip people once .I have found that minority car companies here in Oz treat people better eg bmw jeep etc .Ford holden etc have had it too good for to long and have forgotten what service is Monopoly for to long.

Ive never owned a German brand car for example so I cant comment directly on the service but id expect to be good. I owned a Mitsubishi Lancer (2001) b4 my current car & there dealer service was great both sales & service (Southland Mitsubishi). It may also have alot to do with the dealer (As Adrien Brain Ford St Mary's where I bought my car from the sales service was great (funny that) the service dept was cropola. Having said that there (small service only dept at Keswick are EXCELLENT). If id only every dealt with Adrien Brian Sales (St Marys) & Adrien Brian Service (Keswick) I would have always thought the sun shinned.
So the dealer has alot to do with how you view there service in relation to the Brand. Most people I think now that dealers are franchised & you are not dealing with the manufacturea direct. But the dealer is representing that said Manufacturea. So it only takes a couple times of bad service from that Franchise to potentially put people of that Brand.

[robjh80]

Originally Posted by Tony xa

No repeat bussiness here in Australia just rip people once

Spot on there Tony........and not only relating to car manufacturers but unfortunately in pretty much all other areas as well, whether it be product or service related, Australian businesses cannot see any further than the end of their own noses,........ "rip em off and rip em off good", that's their motto.

[Ives]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

12. Ford: -25 per cent

Source: Melbourne Business School

The Australian

How can a negative pecentage possible?

[DRU842]

It's a nett promoter score; percentage of those people who are positive less the percentage that are negative; if you have more negatives than positive then -percentage.

[banarcus]

It would be fair to assume that that survey was not conducted down at the local but perhaps closer to the latte and wino INNER CITY sippers.

[MarkAW]

Bullshit statistics!

You cant gain a reasonable cross section of the community from asking only 2000 people one single question.

Firstly if this was conducted at say a shopping mall, how many people were interviewed who actually don't drive a car nor take part in the arrangement for servicing. Were these people taken out of the survey - bet they weren't.

How many people have actually sat inside the vast majority of these cars and noted the difference between them. Were those that haven't also eliminated from the survey - suspect they weren't.

How many shopping malls were surveyed so as to get high medium and low income earners. How many were from country or regional areas.

Most people have an expectation that a Beamer or Merc is far better, mostly based on price or heresay and probably less than 1% on fact.

This is crap survey people, the sort of stuff you can expect to see on ACA or Today Tonight.


To prove a point:
My partner once owned a 1970's nissan ute which developed a large amount of rust either through poor maintenance or heavy use or both. These days Noeleen has stated emphatically that she would never own another nissan "cause they are all rust buckets". She not the only one in Aus with attitudes like this - once bitten never forgotten

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Firstly if this was conducted at say a shopping mall, how many people were interviewed who actually don't drive a car nor take part in the arrangement for servicing. Were these people taken out of the survey - bet they weren't.

How many people have actually sat inside the vast majority of these cars and noted the difference between them. Were those that haven't also eliminated from the survey - suspect they weren't.

I have my reservations about the sampling, but to be fair, note this from the actual paper:

Originally Posted by Net Promoter Scores 2006

Consumers were selected at random and
interviewed about products and services that they had recently purchased or were currently consuming.

[MarkAW]

Lagom

I'm not having a go but just look at that statement from the report it could mean as much as "I own and drive a car at the moment".

Further they interviewed these people on a range of products, not just the single question of vehicle type.

In closing, people have a relationship to their vehicles from the "I just use it to get from A to B" to those that can be extremely passionate or bias such as many of the members of this forum. It is a car forum you know But in virtually all cases the majority won't disagree with their most recent purchase to show themselves as fools which then has a bearing on the bias of the survey.

The Caffe-Latte group at Bondi who all own Mercs BMers and Honda's aren't going to advise against their own brand but would certainly look down on Fords & Holdens as being below them.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Lagom

I'm not having a go but just look at that statement from the report it could mean as much as "I own and drive a car at the moment".

Further they interviewed these people on a range of products, not just the single question of vehicle type.

In closing, people have a relationship to their vehicles from the "I just use it to get from A to B" to those that can be extremely passionate or bias such as many of the members of this forum. It is a car forum you know But in virtually all cases the majority won't disagree with their most recent purchase to show themselves as fools which then has a bearing on the bias of the survey.

The Caffe-Latte group at Bondi who all own Mercs BMers and Honda's aren't going to advise against their own brand but would certainly look down on Fords & Holdens as being below them.

Not discounting that, as I said, I have reservations with the sampling (especially the lack of detail on sampling). Post purchase rationalisation could well have a role to play, but as the detail on methodology is so limit, it's hard to make a firm judgement there.

If the poor showing gets Ford to lift its game, that's only a good thing.

To me, it basically seems to indicate an overall level of brand aspiration and Ford needs to work on that. As tariffs continue to fall and imported product becomes more attainable and attractive to the hip pocket among other things, Ford and other local manufacturers need to further improve in order to sustain their local production viability.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Lagom

I'm not having a go but just look at that statement from the report it could mean as much as "I own and drive a car at the moment".

Further they interviewed these people on a range of products, not just the single question of vehicle type.

In closing, people have a relationship to their vehicles from the "I just use it to get from A to B" to those that can be extremely passionate or bias such as many of the members of this forum. It is a car forum you know But in virtually all cases the majority won't disagree with their most recent purchase to show themselves as fools which then has a bearing on the bias of the survey.

The Caffe-Latte group at Bondi who all own Mercs BMers and Honda's aren't going to advise against their own brand but would certainly look down on Fords & Holdens as being below them.

100% agreed. Plus the offices of this paper are in Surrey Hills and is just a leisurely 10 minute drive to Bondi in the (I'm a multi millionaire with a $55,000) 318.
Eastern Sydney ******* are the worst kind because they actually believe people care what they think, and they represent the whole of the "Versace wannabe culture".
I got in to a heated arguement in December 2001 with a poof and his friends at a cafe on campbell parade in Bondi beach when I was waiting for a certain American trash show host celebrity. I was driving a stretched black AU2 at the time, here is how the conversation went.

poof: get that shitbox ford out of there.
Me: What did you say?
poof: get that shitbox ford out of there; no fords are allowed to park here.
Me: What, do you want me to slap you in front of your girlfriends? This car costs 150 grand new, what do you drive a 3 year old 318?
poof: yeah so what.
Me: the shitty, 14 grand poormans BMW, based on a 20 year old floorpan that buckles whenever taken over a speed hump too hard, and has a massively powerful 4 cylinder engine?
poof: It doesn't buckle
Me: Then drive it over a speed hump at 50k's then.
poof: No
Me: because you're worried it will buckle
poof: No I'm not.
Me: Yes you are
poof: How do you know, I've never heard of it before.
Me: I work in the car industry, you hear things, you see things, and you see the results. BMW's, are one of the cheapest, slapped together China built pieces of crap out there.

By this stage his attitude had changed from being cocky to being a little worried. I proffered that he check it out on the web and he'll see examples of it. He then started the usual crap of; "I don't like fords but yours is really nice".

Anyways, I own an S class (result of a huge contract and a large profit in one financial year, needed to find a way to reduce tax liability) and can tell you that it has had the stupidest stuff ups, and if there is an intermittent fault, you can forget about it being found for the first 6 visits. The best way I can summarise the difference between ford/holden and mercedes/bmw service is;
Ford/Holden will tell you they couldn't find the problem
Mercedes/BMW tell you that the problem wouldn't show up, in a big poofy emo way.

[Lagom]

You can find the full research report here.

Originally Posted by Lagom

You can find the full research report here.

I suggest before commenting everyone should read the article first. I think although it has some relevence, BMW buyers are less likely to admit they made a bad purchase decision because of the price paid. On the other hand us aussies have always been good at shooting down a winner if it's local anyway.

Also all banks, health insurers etc have a negative factor as well. But we still use them by choice.

[flappist]

Statistics are wonderful things and are never affected by agenda....

In Australia in 2006 a new high speed wireless internet system was deployed all over the country.
In Australia in 2006 the price of bananas has gone up to over 5 times thier usual price.

Q1 Are you upgrading your phone? yes/no
Q2 Do you buy still bananas? yes/no

Results:

81% of people who have updated to nextG no longer buy bananas......

Therefore nextg should be shut down to save the banana industry....

Lies, damned lies and statistics......

[uranium_death]

We have a VTII. We paid 26.5k for it brand new (runout).
Compare the price of the equivalent BMW with a VTII.
When you pay a shitload more for imported cars compared to the lower prices of Australian cars, you cannot expect superior quality.

People expect to buy gold with peanuts. The world doesn't work like that.

Anyway, if you were asked "what car would you like to drive", the majority of people would choose more cars that aren't as common as our Commodes and Falcons, such as Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Maserati etc.

Perception as I said is NOT fact.

I've ridden in a Mercedes C180 and I reckon it was the most uncomfortable, overrated piece of shit ever. The seats were awful, interior was tacky and the motor was a lawnmower. Yet, it costs 50-60 thousand dollars.
Compare to an Australian built car where the base model costs 30-36 thousand. Larger, more powerful, more comfortable.

Taste in cars is largely based around your money and the company you keep.

If I won 20 million, I wouldn't touch a more expensive car because unlike the latte sipping schlongs, I actually get a car because I love the car itself...not because I want to be perceived as some rich snob.

2000 people is also too narrow. YOu'd have to ask over a million people for thsi to be credible.

Therefore, the findings of this survey are negligible.

[jonbays]

Statisticly 2000 is a valid sample size for the Australian opinion poll as long as there is no bias in the selection process so it is truly random. You would also want to qualify it as a survey of Australians over 18 who curently own and drive a car.

To me it pretty well states the obvious though the more you spend the more you would justify the spend.

[Ford_Boy]

Originally Posted by jonbays

Statisticly 2000 is a valid sample size for the Australian opinion poll as long as there is no bias in the selection process so it is truly random. You would also want to qualify it as a survey of Australians over 18 who curently own and drive a car.

To me it pretty well states the obvious though the more you spend the more you would justify the spend.

exactly. if you paid 60 grand for a car, you would want everyone to think that you loved it and that it wasnt a waste of money. just because its a bmw or merc does not mean that it is anything special. i have seen little merc mini vans. they dont feel comfortable at all and are real slow. bmw and merc have built a name for themselves so as soon as you hear someone say they drive one, you automatically think they are classy. but alot are young teens who buy into the snob act and think their box is classy. for me a merc or bmw doesnt get special untill you get into the 100 grand range. a top of the line ford or holden will put a bottom of the line bmw or merc to shame. so its not always about brand name but its about value for money and i really think fords,holdens,toyotas, subarus,mazdas etc offer great value for money

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Ford_Boy

exactly. if you paid 60 grand for a car, you would want everyone to think that you loved it and that it wasnt a waste of money. just because its a bmw or merc does not mean that it is anything special. i have seen little merc mini vans. they dont feel comfortable at all and are real slow. bmw and merc have built a name for themselves so as soon as you hear someone say they drive one, you automatically think they are classy. but alot are young teens who buy into the snob act and think their box is classy. for me a merc or bmw doesnt get special untill you get into the 100 grand range. a top of the line ford or holden will put a bottom of the line bmw or merc to shame. so its not always about brand name but its about value for money and i really think fords,holdens,toyotas, subarus,mazdas etc offer great value for money

Good point.
One of our vehicles is an MB140 mercedes van.
When people see the badge they say wow, that must have cost a fortune.
It cost less than a hiace van, but people think because it is mercedes it must be good.
Frankly, its not bad and leaves the hiaces for dead but most people don't realise it was assembled in the ssang yong musso factory in south korea, with a mercedes frame/engine/gearbox. The rest is all Ssang Yong.
German is not always good, I literally just went to ford and got a loan XR6 whilst they prepare a BF fairlane and I have to tell you, that XR6 has really made me think. Wonderful car, wonderful handling yet parramatta road did not offer an uncomfortable ride. Frankly, if you buy a car because of its badge then you really must have an inferiority complex. I have always and will continue to always support Ford for the very fact that they build damn fine cars at great prices. The S500 is beautiful but you always drive it worried that something will break, somebody will damage it, and at the end of the day its too expensive to really enjoy. Ford on the other hand build daily drivers that you can throw into corners, accelerate hard, and overall drive with enjoyment in mind. The latte sipping versace wannabees will never experience fun in their 318's or c180's, because they are forever doomed to have cheaper and much more enjoyable fords and holdens sitting on their rear end trying to get past.
I also agree with the comments about the A class, absolute bucket of shit.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by ltd

I have to tell you, that XR6 has really made me think. Wonderful car, wonderful handling yet parramatta road did not offer an uncomfortable ride.

Thanks ltd

I pick up my new BF2 XR6 on Tuesday afternoon at PW at Liverpool, my first new car in 30 years driving - I can't wait - only 4 sleeps to go :eclipsee_

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ltd

I also agree with the comments about the A class (Mercedes), absolute bucket of shit.

Apt - I would describe the body design as toilet brush holder.

Consumer surveys like Powers and Top gear put German cars in perspective. For instance see Mercs position at: http://www.topgear.com/content/featu...ries/01/3.html

Good designs still but the quality manufacture of German cars is often found in countries other than Germany which is having its structural problems like other aging western industrial leaders. Not that this is promoted in advertising. For example I wonder how many Touareg and Cayenne owners would guess that their cars are made in Czech and Slovak Republics? A bit like Holden promoting its increasingly un-Australian cars as Australian!

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by jonbays

Statisticly 2000 is a valid sample size for the Australian opinion poll as long as there is no bias in the selection process

jonbays
How can you conclude that 0.1% of the population is a representative sample of our entire population including socio-economic factors, geographic factors and demographics. Further this very narrow selection was asked a single question that generated half a page of opinion based on a single word reply having forty or fifty possible answers for a recommendation.

This almost reeks of the old word association tests that shrinks were supposed to do. If this was presented to me as an assessment of my business merit, I'd throw the jerk out - its crap!

Whilst I'm not a statistician, I am a mech eng and I do understand batch sampling and probability.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

jonbays
How can you conclude that 0.1% of the population is a representative sample of our entire population including socio-economic factors, geographic factors and demographics. Further this very narrow selection was asked a single question that generated half a page of opinion based on a single word reply having forty or fifty possible answers for a recommendation.

not to disagree at all with what you're saying, but these 2000 people are a much bigger cross section than most people access when making a decision on a car purchase. an example is a guy i heard the other day. was saying he owns a ford which has siezed the engine, his son's ford had problems. his daughter's 2yo magna has had no problems, therefore he's going to buy a magna because they are better...
basically a survey of 3 people and that sort of thing happens a lot...

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Cooper69S

not to disagree at all with what you're saying, but these 2000 people are a much bigger cross section than most people access when making a decision on a car purchase. an example is a guy i heard the other day. was saying he owns a ford which has siezed the engine, his son's ford had problems. his daughter's 2yo magna has had no problems, therefore he's going to buy a magna because they are better...
basically a survey of 3 people and that sort of thing happens a lot...

I understand your logic behind that sort of thinking but surveys are supposed to represent the entire population base which enevitably they can't.

Even a large data base survey of say 1 to 2 million can have faults which is why the ABS now include so many bullshit questions in the census papers because extrapolation has so many factors.

[Ford_Boy]

if i was a multi millionare i would be getting a ford gt from the us