Holden - Getting Nervous, Go Drive

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by Allen

Both the Ford and the Holden did the exact same route, under the same conditions and at the same time. The only variable was the person behind the wheel.

they actually swapped drivers at the half way point so in my book the test was a great way to do it being different driving styles were taken into account

it is also great to see some good media articles for Ford Au and GMH getting the raw end of the bullcrud stick for once

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Allen

In regards to the Bathurst test, the nature of the road is irrelevant.
Both the Ford and the Holden did the exact same route, under the same conditions and at the same time. The only variable was the person behind the wheel.

If the Falcon is more fuel efficient than the Commodore under these circumstances, then logic tells me that it will also be more fuel efficient at other times too.

Logic doesn't tell me that. Top Gear did a test around a track with a Prius and an M3. The M3 followed the Prius and was more economical in the test. Would logic dictate that the M3 would be more economical in every other test?

I agree with the poster that suggested that the test around Bathurst is only relevant to those who do laps around Bathurst. Sure, there's hills and bends on the roads I drive on but there is also traffic, traffic lights, intersections, accidents, delays and many other variables that make or break my fuel economy. A few weeks ago, the trip computer was telling me my average was 8.9, today it went over 11. Doing the same sorts of journeys, in differing traffic conditions.

Drive both vehicles around a city, taking the same route over several journeys over a couple of weeks. That would be an efficiency test that I would consider relevant and more 'real world' results. Endlessly lapping a public road containing little to no traffic doesn't mimic my driving experience.

[jakkes]

if i remember correctly topgear raced the two the drive test was not a race!

[fairmont1998]

Originally Posted by jakkes

if i remember correctly topgear raced the two the drive test was not a race!

That's correct. They flogged the Prius and the M3 only had to keep up with it. Of course it would win.
The Falcon and Commodore were driven in the same manner.

[gokhan]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Logic doesn't tell me that. Top Gear did a test around a track with a Prius and an M3. The M3 followed the Prius and was more economical in the test. Would logic dictate that the M3 would be more economical in every other test?

The Falcon and Commodore are more of a close match than a Prius and M3 though. Plus the Top Gear track is even less of a real world comparison than Bathurst, which is at least a public road. Holden should have run their new SIDI V6 in the ECO challenge so we could see what kind of figures it would get.

Originally Posted by Rodp

Drive both vehicles around a city, taking the same route over several journeys over a couple of weeks. That would be an efficiency test that I would consider relevant and more 'real world' results. Endlessly lapping a public road containing little to no traffic doesn't mimic my driving experience.

This kind of test would make more sense.

[The Snout]

And if the Commodore had won the Bathurst test then Holden would have ads saying "Holden wins at Bathurst, again".

SIDI is Starfire Mk II.

[TUF_302]

Holden,we mean more to ourselfs than you lot!!

What a bunch of lying buggers!, how can they compare a turbo falcon to there standard 3ltr, bunch of morons run that place!!

[dom_105]

The real question is the fact that there were at least 2 people out there that put their hand up to drive 1000kms around the mountain at 60kph.

I love Bathurst, but jeez, that would push it.

[XRQTR]

What I'm talking about is the speed limit all the way, none of this namby pamby just to get the best possible mileage.

[79bluexd]

even with fuel economy . if you sit in the back of new commodores and open 1 window you almost get car sick because of the aerodynamics never had this problem since my parents 91 magna... was a bad experience but something they proberly dont test for ...

give me a new car for a week and i will pick the sh%t out of it...

dont worry about fuel economy worry about power / drive / comfort and safety because how often do you monitor the fuel per 100kms and who drives around bathurst for a whole day ........

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 79bluexd

dont worry about fuel economy worry about power / drive / comfort and safety because how often do you monitor the fuel per 100kms and who drives around bathurst for a whole day ........

funnily enough, that is what i keep an eye on the most. with all my cars, i always fill the tank and record the kms, zeroing the trip meter (not trip computer) each time. i believe this to be an accurate way of knowing how your engine is running. if for some reason you notice a gradual or sudden change, then you know something is responsible for it.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by prydey

funnily enough, that is what i keep an eye on the most. with all my cars, i always fill the tank and record the kms, zeroing the trip meter (not trip computer) each time. i believe this to be an accurate way of knowing how your engine is running. if for some reason you notice a gradual or sudden change, then you know something is responsible for it.

I do exactly the same.

[Nikked]

Good news, maybe Holden ran out of "compensation" to give to the journalist's in return of a favorable story...

[Oxa384]

i notice on the radio ads for the new sdi commodore they now have a discaimer at the end saying depending on conditions and driving style etc.....funny as!!!!
eat humple pie holden.then choke!!!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by oxa384

i notice on the radio ads for the new sdi commodore they now have a discaimer at the end saying depending on conditions and driving style etc.....funny as!!!!
eat humple pie holden.then choke!!!!

That's always been there.

[falcom]

It seems Holden have tuned/geared their cars to get a good ADR figure.(Good for marketing)

First the Cruze and now the Commodore are getting worse real world figures compared to cars with higher ADR figures.(as tested by Wheels/Motor magazines)

[galaxy xr8]

I can't wait till the ecoboost 4 comes in the falc, imagine the write up then !!!!.
This is good new's and rightly so, let's just hope the public actually start to listen and do their homework.

[Bossxr8]

Now that Holden has no money the media kickbacks must be running dry.

[Dave R]

Good Lord, Drive actually has something negative to say about Holden! I'm guessing Josh Dowlings monthly cheque must have bounced... Holden must really be broke.

[Scott]

I didn't believe that a media outlet would spruik the virtues of a Falcon over a C****dore when the first results came out and I can't believe it now.

Is this April 1st or can't Holden afford to buy a good story anymore??

[XRtowcar]

I would of thought that testing the cars at Bathurst at legal road going speeds would be more typical of everyday driving around suburban roads.
Shows that the torque of the inline 6 is of more value to fuel economy than the outright horsepower of the v6 when your trying to push 1800kg's of car along.

[Joshmcmillan]

Yet even after reading this and the 1st article from Drive, there is a huge number of people that will go out and buy a Commodore without even considering test driving a falcon... It's sad.

[mik]

putting a smaller NA engine in a heavy car is always going to make it work harder than a bigger torquey engine, put a family in the commy (=2 ton) it must work harder, do the SIDI commy`s come with anything but 6 speed auto? it would be interesting to see a 4 speed auto version doing the Bathurst test, for any real benefit the VE needs to shed weight imo.

[LTDterri]

Ive always known putting a small engine in a big car means the engine works harder to keep it at speed and therefore using more fuel, the task now for Ford is to use it to its advantage, some how though I dont think they will and Holden will still give Ford a canning in new car sales

[Franco Cozzo]

I think we should all stop trolling Wally, I'm pretty sure people are entitled to their opinions, doesn't mean we have to believe them but still, post a rebuttal to his argument but don't just go "Oh thats BS" without backing it up with facts.

Anyways about the Bathurst test not being "real world", sure it isn't for most people but the key thing was that there was two cars and two drivers doing the exact same thing. It might not be real life for you guys, and its not for me either because instead of doing 60km/h, I'm doing 100km/h climbing medium/steep hills on my commute, 95% of my driving is all country highway.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

I think we should all stop trolling Wally, I'm pretty sure people are entitled to their opinions, doesn't mean we have to believe them but still, post a rebuttal to his argument but don't just go "Oh thats BS" without backing it up with facts.

Anyways about the Bathurst test not being "real world", sure it isn't for most people but the key thing was that there was two cars and two drivers doing the exact same thing. It might not be real life for you guys, and its not for me either because instead of doing 60km/h, I'm doing 100km/h climbing medium/steep hills on my commute, 95% of my driving is all country highway.

I don't think we have enough posts from Joe5619 to know if he was being unpleasant or otherwise. I'll prefer to think he was giving a backhanded compliment. :voldar02:

Being a country driver I suspect economy is secondary to comfort for you? The Falcon would be a good choice in your situation compared to a townie car like the 3.0.

[4Vman]

Today when i drove to work it took 35 mins, i averaged about 50kph in flowing but stop start traffic in speed zones from 60 to 80kph.
Im my mind this trip is probably representative of how the majority of people experiece driving who drive daily and live in the bigger city's or if you like 90% of Australia's population, i.e: 15 - 50mins driving in traffic...
Sitting on a constant speed (110kph) for 9 hrs from syd to melb is as far away from "real world" as you can get, the figures and results of a test like that are meaningless to most Australian drivers.
The bathurst test at-least is done at speeds everyone will encounter for the majority of their day in suburban areas, and the hills replicate REAL suburban topography... The only thing missing is the frequency of "stop start"... but @ 60kph the car will experience load adjustments more in line with suburban driving, @ 110kph you carry far more momentum and engine inertia...

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sitting on a constant speed (110kph) for 9 hrs from syd to melb is as far away from "real world" as you can get, the figures and results of a test like that are meaningless to most Australian drivers.
...

It's quite obvious none of you get the point of what I'm suggesting and why.

Where in my post did I make any "real world" claims with regard to such a test??

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Today when i drove to work it took 35 mins, i averaged about 50kph in flowing but stop start traffic in speed zones from 60 to 80kph.
Im my mind this trip is probably representative of how the majority of people experiece driving who drive daily and live in the bigger city's or if you like 90% of Australia's population, i.e: 15 - 50mins driving in traffic....

You poor bugger.

[saber]

Found another article, seems to verify holdens claims of 900km range per tank.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/452...0km-challenge/

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