Holden 2013 Loss

[bobthebilda]

I cant put the link here, but Holden have just announced a loss of $553.8 million for the 2013 Calender year.

[SensationFG8]

I was just about to post a thread, here's the link

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1226914865119

Seems to me like putting fancy toys in your car isn't the best way to make money.

In all honesty though I wonder how they've managed this, isn't the VF selling quite well? Aren't GTS's running off the shelf like hotcakes?

This is their reported reason...

Holden says of the record loss can be attributed to the devaluing of its assets by $500.4 million before tax — namely the Port Melbourne engine plant and Elizabeth car assembly line — and $122.3 million in redundancy payments to about 800 blue-collar workers, engineers and office staff associated with manufacturing.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I cant put the link here, but Holden have just announced a loss of $553.8 million for the 2013 Calender year.

Not surprising, when you consider the Australian taxpayer has been paying for them for the last 15 years. Thus us why there cars can have kit in them because they havnt paid for it.

[bobthebilda]

Holdens figures never make sense. At the end of 2008 they were apparantly in trouble as they had no net assets. Yet since then they have been able to run a nett loss of approx. $900 million, and a fair chunk of that has been write downs. I aint no accountant, but how far below $0 can you write down an asset.

[Mulga]

Wow.....Holden has always been very aggressive with sales promotions, factory rebates, advertising etc etc and especially aggressive with fleet sales. Obviously, at some point this has to give and it is not sustainable in the long term. It will be interesting to see Ford's results as a comparison. It seems that volume at all costs, does not equate.

[zilo]

They are milking the tax system in their exit strategy out of manufacturing.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by zilo

They are milking the tax system in their exit strategy out of manufacturing.

Bingo. We have a winner.

[Nikked]

Always going to take a hit with a new model release, increased spending and run out models eating into the budget. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if a few things are in motion for the closure...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Always going to take a hit with a new model release, increased spending and run out models eating into the budget. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if a few things are in motion for the closure...

Nothing to do with a new model, everything to do with depreciation of assets.

[BHDOGS]

Nah man this is all bullshit there selling so many gts's that there in profit surely i mean the demand is huge thats why you can get them for so cheap and they have that fancy diff i hear it all the time on this very forum im sure its 500million in profit must be.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Nothing to do with a new model, everything to do with depreciation of assets.

It is called creative accountancy.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

It is called creative accountancy.

More like bizarre accountancy, why are they not doing asset depreciation as an annual book cost instead of this massive torpedo through the p&l statements every few years

[XR Martin]

Holden says of the record loss can be attributed to the devaluing of its assets by $500.4 million before tax — namely the Port Melbourne engine plant and Elizabeth car assembly line — and $122.3 million in redundancy payments to about 800 blue-collar workers, engineers and office staff associated with manufacturing.

Average redundancy is $152,000 - not bad.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Average redundancy is $152,000 - not bad.

and the union still expect the taxpayer to cough up more.

[timeout]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Holdens figures never make sense. At the end of 2008 they were apparantly in trouble as they had no net assets. Yet since then they have been able to run a nett loss of approx. $900 million, and a fair chunk of that has been write downs. I aint no accountant, but how far below $0 can you write down an asset.

I think you will find its a paper loss. Get an accountant to explain it. They are writing down their asset register before closure. Cant show any profits if your trying to shut down.

[pottery beige]

Margaret Fulton would be proud of their books

[Iggle Piggle]

Bit more info on it can be found here from Joshua Dowling: http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/holden-and-ford-post-820m-financial-losses-combined/story-fnkgdhrc-1226914865119

Holden and Ford post $820m financial losses combined

THE balance sheets of Holden and Ford are covered in red ink as both brands prepare to close their car factories by 2017.

Holden has announced its biggest ever financial loss — $553.8 million after tax for the calendar year 2013 — after posting its lowest sales in 20 years, while Ford is $267 million in the red, its second-worst result on record, as its sales hit a 22-year low.

The latest figures bring Holden’s total losses to a staggering $1.28 billion over the past eight years; Ford has lost $1.1 billion over the same period.

The losses come despite both car makers receiving generous taxpayer support, with Holden receiving more than $1.8 billion over the past 12 years, including $86.2 million from the public purse in 2013.

Meanwhile, Ford has received more than $1.1 billion in government funding over the same period, including $72 million in 2013.

Holden's previous record loss was $210 million in 2009 but its most embarrassing result was in 2011, when its profit of $89.7m was exactly the same as the government funds it had received that year.

Ford Australia’s worst result on record was a loss of $274 million in 2008.

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission published Holden’s and Ford’s 2013 financial results online today after they were lodged before the end of April.

Toyota Australia’s financial results aren’t due to be made public until June because the car maker works to the Japanese financial year, which ends on March 31.

Holden says the record loss can be attributed to the devaluing of its assets by $500.4 million before tax — namely the Port Melbourne engine plant and Elizabeth car assembly line — and $122.3 million in redundancy payments to about 800 blue-collar workers, engineers and office staff associated with manufacturing.

Similarly, Ford said the complete write-down of its manufacturing assets represented all but $25 million of the $267 million loss.

A statement from Holden said: “As a direct result of the announcement that Holden would cease manufacturing in Australia by the end of 2017, the company recorded a $500.4 million (before tax) one-off impairment charge on property, plant and equipment. In addition, the company recorded a $122.3 million (before tax) charge for employee separation costs in 2013.”

Holden company says it spent $145.2 million in 2013 on research and development and $190.9 million in taxes.

Ford said it spent $340 million on local engineering work for overseas Ford vehicles in 2013; it expects to become Australia’s largest automotive employer after 2017, with approximately 1100 designers and engineers working on foreign projects.

Holden’s revenue “increased slightly” from $4.02 billion in 2012 to $4.05 billion in 2013, due to an increase in vehicle sales in the second half of 2013 following the launch of the first new Commodore in seven years.

Ford Australia’s revenue was down from $3.1 billion in 2012 to $2.8 billion in 2013, as Ford’s new-car sales hit a 22-year low.

Holden Chief Financial Officer, Jeff Rolfs, said closing the factories by 2017 was “the right decision” to return Holden to profitability.

“Clearly there are significant costs associated with our decision to cease domestic manufacturing of vehicles in Australia by the end of 2017. These costs drove the financial loss for Holden in 2013,” said Mr Rolfs.

“We are mindful of the impact on our employees and our financial results, but it was the right decision. Manufacturing vehicles in Australia is, unfortunately, unsustainable.

“All three domestic (manufacturers) have now announced they will cease domestic vehicle manufacturing as auto manufacturing in Australia faces a perfect storm of negative influences: a persistently high Australian dollar; one of the most fragmented and competitive markets in the world; and higher costs compared to other manufacturing source countries.”

Holden said it has already started to cut job numbers, losing about 800 workers across its business last year, leaving it with a total workforce of about 3400 today, including 1700 car assembly workers and 250 engine plants staff.

“Last year, we recorded the initial allocations of our employee separation costs with further charges expected in this area,” said Mr Rolfs.

“We are determined to work with all levels of government and the rest of the industry to deliver support, training and links to future opportunities for Holden employees impacted by our decision.”

Holden repeated its earlier claims that it only makes money on its imported cars, most of which come from South Korea and Thailand.

“We are profitable on our imported portfolio and Holden is focused on taking the right decisions to grow sales and revenue in the immediate term and manage our other costs very closely,” said Mr Rolfs.

“Holden is one of the strongest brands in Australia. We launched 10 new or significantly updated vehicles in 2013 and we have more products in more segments than ever before.”

Holden’s balance sheet, its turnover, and vehicles sales by year:
2005: - $144.6m $6.7bn 174,464
2006: - $146.6m $6.4bn 146,511
2007: - $6.1m $6.1bn 146,680
2008: - $70.2m $5.8bn 130,338
2009: - $210.6m $3.8bn 119,568
2010: + $112.4m $4.4bn 132,923
2011: + $89.7m $4.3bn 126,095 — $89.7m govt assistance, same as profit
2012: - $152.8m $4.02bn 114,665 — $73.5m govt assistance
2013: - $553.8 million, $4.05bn, 112,059 — $86.2m govt assistance, lowest sales in 20 years

Ford’s balance sheet, its turnover, and vehicles sales by year:
2005: + $148.2m $3.9bn 129,140
2006: - $40.3m $3.3bn 114,965
2007: - $87.2m $3.3bn 108,071
2008: - $274m $3.29bn 104,715 — biggest loss on record
2009: + $13m $3.14bn 96,501
2010: + $24.9m $3.3bn 95,284 — $116m govt assistance
2011: - $290m $2.8bn 91,243 — $102m govt assistance
2012: - $141m $3.1bn 90,408 — $112m govt assistance
2013: - $267m $2.8bn 87,236 — $72m govt assistance, ninth year of sales decline, lowest sales in 22 years

[1TUFFUTE]

Where's all the clowns who've been saying ford have been doing wrong all these years now? Holden sucks even more despite selling more and advertising things no one wants...it appears lol

[HyperXH]

They know it's been going under for years. Then put up that stupid 'we're here' ad!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by HyperXH

They know it's been going under for years. Then put up that stupid 'we're here' ad!

EXACTLY.....damage control......."quick lets spend another 500k to save face"

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Where's all the clowns who've been saying ford have been doing wrong all these years now? Holden sucks even more despite selling more and advertising things no one wants...it appears lol

I don't know about that - seems like Holden just wrote down more assets. Take that out and there was not much difference between the two.

Doesn't really matter now anyway - for either of them - and I don't think we can really take too much out of what is 'reported' as they all have some creative accountants that can arrive at or close to the desired plus or minus figure that suits head office best.

If we are to accept the figures for both then no one can take any joy from it - that would be like a guy with herpes paying out on a guy that has gonorrhea. To those looking on they are both manky losers.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

I don't know about that - seems like Holden just wrote down more assets. Take that out and there was not much difference between the two.

Doesn't really matter now anyway - for either of them - and I don't think we can really take too much out of what is 'reported' as they all have some creative accountants that can arrive at or close to the desired plus or minus figure that suits head office best.

If we are to accept the figures for both then no one can take any joy from it - that would be like a guy with herpes paying out on a guy that has gonorrhea. To those looking on they are both manky losers.

please look at the 8 year figures in another thread.

There is a huge difference.

[Iggle Piggle]

8 year figures are also in the article in my original post in this thread:

The latest figures bring Holden’s total losses to a staggering $1.28 billion over the past eight years; Ford has lost $1.1 billion over the same period.

Not a huge amount of difference - 1.28 vs 1.1 - but if you are referring to government grants you should also maybe take into account grants versus employee numbers, or grants versus locally produced units, or grants versus tax paid.

Either way they are both financial basket cases (as "reported") that make totally awesome large RWD cars - and I love them for it.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

EXACTLY.....damage control......."quick lets spend another 500k to save face"

They HAD to run that ad campaign to educate joe public, that Holden dealers aren't closing, Holden aren't leaving Australia, and you will still be able to buy paaaaartss. Plus, they sell a whole portfolio of models, one of which will no longer be made.

[Windsor220]

Its amazing that with the following Holden has, having the number 1 selling car for so many years and being the 2nd overall best selling brand that they could lose so much money over that time. Really shows how futile it is to make cars here.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Its amazing that with the following Holden has, having the number 1 selling car for so many years and being the 2nd overall best selling brand that they could lose so much money over that time. Really shows how futile it is to make cars here.

yeah...they "lose" the money by sending it into the parent company's bank account......

They're just American multinationals keeping their shareholders happy.

Oh...and pretended they are "Australian" and pulling on the mindless patriotic heart strings of the gullible.

Good riddance to the deceit, tragic for the job losses.

[GTP-814]

and dont forget the massive Govt hand outs to save them, this loss is on top of that as well, so its even worse.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by zilo

yeah...they "lose" the money by sending it into the parent company's bank account......

They're just American multinationals keeping their shareholders happy.

Oh...and pretended they are "Australian" and pulling on the mindless patriotic heart strings of the gullible.

Good riddance to the deceit, tragic for the job losses.

agreed, but remember that Ford AU is also under the same ownership structure, and yet the losses are less.

[BENT_8]

Im so glad these wre separate threads for both Holdens and Fords losses.

It would appear that Holdens losses are more news worthy, going by the post counts.

Before you all get on your soap boxes consider this...

Holden lost $553mil.

Ford lost $267mil.

Holden sold 54000 locally made units.

Ford sold 24000 locally made units.

Holden lost $10.2k per car sold

Ford lost $11.1k per car sold

Those figures are not exact but close enough to make a point.

[1TUFFUTE]

The ignorance of people with how Holden has run their buissiness in aus astonishes me. It truley does. I could write a book.

And it's simply summed up by how Holden made their last descissions......the ones based on trying to blackmail the aus govco for as many dollars as possible despite being informed by head office they were closing down. One of many poor descissions and attitudes shown by a company supposedly living on borrowed time and no foreseeable light at the end of the tunnel.
Ford slowly wound things up, seeing the future and acting responsibly......yet Holden stayed on money spending sprees and acted like true bogans.