XR8 vs SSV including dyno test

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

So looking at last year's sales and using your percentages of local content, Ford placed orders with local suppliers for 60% of 6349 units, and Holden placed orders for 40% of 30203 units (plus Caprice plus exports).

So who was responsible for most of the components manufactured in Australia last year?

I reckon the answer would be Toyota.

One could then argue who is pricing their cars at a reasonable price and who are discounting the hell out of theirs which will have flow on effects to suppliers.

Overall, Falcon 70%, Camry 65% and Commmodore 52% (just scraps in over the 51% minimum).

And yes, it was probably Toyota!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by arronm

Miami, Is that in Florida or Victoria. Hmmm name sorta gives it away...

Not really if you know anything about what FPV had envisioned for the engine...

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by kypez

Not all the components inside are made in Australia...

Pretty sure, that at the peak of the Aussie car industry, all components were Australian made - block, cylinder head, pistons, crank, gaskets, etc.

Different story for todays Aussie built engines, but the discussion mentioned the Hemi so I presume 1970's engines.

[XR Martin]

When was the peak?
I think it was the crank of the SOHC (and DOHC?) Falcons that was made overseas?

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

When was the peak?
I think it was the crank of the SOHC (and DOHC?) Falcons that was made overseas?

As per the engine discussion above - while all engine components where manufactured in Australia - late 60's to mid 70's

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

So looking at last year's sales and using your percentages of local content, Ford placed orders with local suppliers for 60% of 6349 units, and Holden placed orders for 40% of 30203 units (plus Caprice plus exports).

So who was responsible for most of the components manufactured in Australia last year?

I reckon the answer would be Toyota.

And using your method on my method.......who's using more imported parts on their Australian made cars?

[Iggle Piggle]

That would also be Toyota, wouldn't it?

Meanwhile...comparison article

[kypez]

It good to see the Ford got the nod in the handling department on everything except a billiard table race track. Interesting given everyone else has said otherwise.

I can live with that for the auto...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

That would also be Toyota, wouldn't it?

Meanwhile...comparison article

Umm no. The toyotas share very similiar content as the ford falcon.
So your typical Ssv has the most imported content of all the Aussie made cars. Oh that's right....the other Aussie made Holden, the Cruze, has even more imported content....my bad!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Umm no. The toyotas share very similiar content as the ford falcon.
So your typical Ssv has the most imported content of all the Aussie made cars. Oh that's right....the other Aussie made Holden, the Cruze, has even more imported content....my bad!

Don't even bring up the cruze. It's a CKD.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by kypez

Don't even bring up the cruze. It's a CKD.

What's a ckd?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

What's a ckd?

Complete knockdown kit. Basically it's put together in Adelaide like a kit car.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Umm no. The toyotas share very similiar content as the ford falcon.
So your typical Ssv has the most imported content of all the Aussie made cars. Oh that's right....the other Aussie made Holden, the Cruze, has even more imported content....my bad!

I'm not disputing there is less local content in the Holden on a per unit basis - but when it comes to total volume of local components, which of the 3 local manufacturers do you think purchases the smallest volume of local components?

Lets say all 3 manufacturers purchase seats from the same local supplier. Who is purchasing the least amount of seats from that local supplier? Who would that local business see as their least important customer in the scheme of things given the size of orders each manufacturer places?

Feel free to bring Cruze into this if you want, and obviously include Territory too, as even though local content per Ford unit might be higher you will still find that the smaller number of units likely skews things further against Ford when it comes to total volume of local components purchased.

Perhaps it's best we go back to the actual topic hey?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by tempted

And in a couple of years all cars sold in Australia will be 100% imported content, so your argument is pointless and futile.

Captain obvious
It may be futile as of a NOW but it wasn't always.

And it's NEVER been POINTLESS!

Some of you guys(not pointing fingers) must be the worst sports fans.....as soon as your team has a bad run you jump ship and start bagging them!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tempted

No it isn't. How can it be ckd when it has 30% local content? The C stands for COMPLETE.

The 30% is the people putting it together.

[701let]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

I'm not disputing there is less local content in the Holden on a per unit basis - but when it comes to total volume of local components, which of the 3 local manufacturers do you think purchases the smallest volume of local components?

Lets say all 3 manufacturers purchase seats from the same local supplier. Who is purchasing the least amount of seats from that local supplier? Who would that local business see as their least important customer in the scheme of things given the size of orders each manufacturer places?

Feel free to bring Cruze into this if you want, and obviously include Territory too, as even though local content per Ford unit might be higher you will still find that the smaller number of units likely skews things further against Ford when it comes to total volume of local components purchased.

Perhaps it's best we go back to the actual topic hey?

I don't think they can or want to understand what you are trying to say mate

In any case this is way off topic 😃

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tempted

I think you need to get your facts straight.

Sarcasm is lost on the net. Sorry, my mistake. CKD is also accepted for items that are not complete knock down.

Quote: A knock-down kit is a kit containing the parts needed to assemble a product. The parts are typically manufactured in one country or region, then exported to another country or region for final assembly. Variant names include knockdown kit, knocked-down kit, or simply knockdown, and the abbreviated KD or CKD.

Though I might add that its a bit rich you talking about getting facts straight... Still havent seen you post up the FPV business details as you did the prodrive details... Cat got your tongue?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

I'm not disputing there is less local content in the Holden on a per unit basis - but when it comes to total volume of local components, which of the 3 local manufacturers do you think purchases the smallest volume of local components?

Lets say all 3 manufacturers purchase seats from the same local supplier. Who is purchasing the least amount of seats from that local supplier? Who would that local business see as their least important customer in the scheme of things given the size of orders each manufacturer places?

Feel free to bring Cruze into this if you want, and obviously include Territory too, as even though local content per Ford unit might be higher you will still find that the smaller number of units likely skews things further against Ford when it comes to total volume of local components purchased.

Perhaps it's best we go back to the actual topic hey?

Agreed with what you're saying. Just curious who is giving the most profit to the supplier though. As I mentioned the cost of the Holdens are being discounted by big numbers and so are the Toyotas. The falcon/terri isnt as much but as a pure numbers game without knowing the details (as I dont either), I'm inclined to agree with your assessment.

But we should get back on topic.

[GTP534]

Sorry to be still off topic but it's the way this thread has meandered.

Just in response to those going on about the "volume" of local content, this cannot just be quantified by saying Holden produce more cars therefore they generate more income for the local suppliers.

Ford have helped local suppliers with global contracts; this was an earlier thread:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...lier+Contracts

Ford have the highest local content of the current 3 manufacturers, that's a good thing. No need to attempt to dilute that by bringing in sales volume.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Sorry to be still off topic but it's the way this thread has meandered.

Just in response to those going on about the "volume" of local content, this cannot just be quantified by saying Holden produce more cars therefore they generate more income for the local suppliers.

Ford have helped local suppliers with global contracts; this was an earlier thread:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...lier+Contracts

Ford have the highest local content of the current 3 manufacturers, that's a good thing. No need to attempt to dilute that by bringing in sales volume.

Yeah exactly. You can't say the ford xr8 does less for Australia simply because it might sell less. The fact of the matter is......FORD made it so that no matter what the sales were.......only 30% of it needed to be imported!


Imagine if Holden/GM had matched Fords numbers. The SS would both sell in large numbers AND actually provide a serious boost for suppliers.


But once again some will only ever look at these things in as negative a way(and with a lack of humour as noted above) as possable.....even if it doesn't make a lot of common sense! It's either that or they just hate ford.

[Hulsty]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Sorry to be still off topic but it's the way this thread has meandered.

Just in response to those going on about the "volume" of local content, this cannot just be quantified by saying Holden produce more cars therefore they generate more income for the local suppliers.

Ford have helped local suppliers with global contracts

They also do it the opposite way, we had been making for parts for many years, Ford shifted them to India....... Volumes are low which surprised me that they could get someone to take them on who is less flexible.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Yeah exactly. You can't say the ford xr8 does less for Australia simply because it might sell less. The fact of the matter is......FORD made it so that no matter what the sales were.......only 30% of it needed to be imported!


Imagine if Holden/GM had matched Fords numbers. The SS would both sell in large numbers AND actually provide a serious boost for suppliers.


But once again some will only ever look at these things in as negative a way(and with a lack of humour as noted above) as possable.....even if it doesn't make a lot of common sense! It's either that or they just hate ford.

Isn't that what the commodore is doing? Selling in good numbers thus providing a boost for local suppliers even with the 50% local content.

Wouldn't selling say 2500 commodores per month with 50% local content be better for local suppliers than selling say 500 falcons per month with 70% local content?

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Isn't that what the commodore is doing? Selling in good numbers thus providing a boost for local suppliers even with the 50% local content.

Wouldn't selling say 2500 commodores per month with 50% local content be better for local suppliers than selling say 500 falcons per month with 70% local content?

Don't forget to include the locally build Territories with your 500 falcons sales.

This unfortunately will come to an end come 2017

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Isn't that what the commodore is doing? Selling in good numbers thus providing a boost for local suppliers even with the 50% local content.

Wouldn't selling say 2500 commodores per month with 50% local content be better for local suppliers than selling say 500 falcons per month with 70% local content?

Your just being argumentative.
If commadore was selling as well as you say......why are they leaving? Why are these supply companies closing?
And why did they go from 50% local content in the vf when it was released to a target number of 70%(don't know when they expected to hit they number but common sense would say ASAP)

[arronm]

Look. 50-70% of the time , it works none of the time.

That's why holden and ford left

[LooLoo18]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Your just being argumentative.
If commadore was selling as well as you say......why are they leaving? Why are these supply companies closing?
And why did they go from 50% local content in the vf when it was released to a target number of 70%(don't know when they expected to hit they number but common sense would say ASAP)

Falcon 578 for Dec and 6,349 for the year
Commodore 2,009 & 30,203

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by LooLoo18

Falcon 578 for Dec and 6,349 for the year
Commodore 2,009 & 30,203

It really is pointless flogging the sales statistics. We know it's sad but that's the way it is.

Ford is stopping local manufacture, they're manufacturing to their schedule and the Falcon is already an orphan.

Holden plans to be around for a little bit longer and have to sell more to amortise their investment in VF I would imagine.

It's obvious Holden sells more cars therefore overall they would be contributing more to the bottom lines of suppliers.

Doesn't alter the fact the locally built Fords have a higher local content.

[beardo]

Going back to the first post, my wife ran a faster time down the quarter than the ss in her stock .bf xr6 turbo and not even changing gears manually

[701let]

Originally Posted by beardo

Going back to the first post, my wife ran a faster time down the quarter than the ss in her stock .bf xr6 turbo and not even changing gears manually

Maybe the guy in the SS had the tyre pressures set wrong, or he just didn't know how to drive the holden properly.. More racing needs to be done by different drivers at different tracks to be conclusive ....

[hootar]

Originally Posted by 701let

Maybe the guy in the SS had the tyre pressures set wrong, or he just didn't know how to drive the holden properly.. More racing needs to be done by different drivers at different tracks to be conclusive ....

No offense but maybe it was just another ****box, under powered holden. .