Is it time for a FPV Focus?

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Rodp

The gay market is apparently fulfilled by the Ford Ute.

Well they like something that gives them a push in the back. (Boom Tish)




A truly great FWD that sets new standards wouldn't bother me. Years ago I would've bought a Puma Racing if they had've come out here.

My current FWD (102kw at the wheel) does most things that I ask of it on a race track and is predictable, neutral to taily and very controllable. With a lot more power (and better brakes, chassis & suspension) it’s be a bit of a weapon – Hopefully the new RS will be that better car.

The problem with a lot of the grunty FWD's (Honda CTR, Pug & VW GTi, Mini, etc) is that they don't fit LSD's and the weight of the base cars keeps climbing therefore they need more grunt.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

An FPV Focus is a great idea, the Gay/Female market is currently untapped.

Finally, I can come out of the closet.

[mustang70]

Originally Posted by Rodp

The gay market is apparently fulfilled by the Ford Ute. .

hehe.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by TXR

Finally, I can come out of the closet.

go back in they wont make it

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

An FPV Focus is a great idea, the Gay/Female market is currently untapped.

Maybe they can get Carla Zampatti to give a few styling cues..

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

An FPV Focus is a great idea, the Gay/Female market is currently untapped.

Ha ha ....great post mate !

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by J_Tank

I live and work over on the North shore of Sydney. In my day to day driving I see more Golf GTi's/R32's than I see XR/FPV's and SS/HSV's put together. I probably see more minis that I do FPVs. While only a small and somewhat suspect corner of the car market, and perhaps more Eurocentric than the rest of the community there is a market out there.

Ahhhh the Lower North Shore...Without a lie I was the only bloke living there who owned a XC 351 GXL in 1984 (and probably ever)....A unique piece of machinery it was there....and often frowned upon....especially when cranking it over at 6am in the basment car park of the block of units I was living in !!

[fou_bleu]

Lets see whose laughing when we put an RS against a GT on a track... ;)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by fordman6

Lets see whose laughing when we put an RS against a GT on a track... ;)

Yes.. and its life span would be about half that of the mitsu 380...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

An FPV Focus is a great idea, the Gay/Female market is currently untapped.

As much as that was tongue in cheek, there's some truth in it (refer to John Tank's post!). But then, you add that it won't last longer than the 380? I disagree, it's this market Ford need to push as it's the growing market. No need to remind everyone how well the large cars are selling with private buyers.

[MITCHAY]

It would be great if they brought one out. Not everyone wants or needs a big door sedan.

[geckoGT]

The problem with a lot of the grunty FWD's (Honda CTR, Pug & VW GTi, Mini, etc) is that they don't fit LSD's and the weight of the base cars keeps climbing therefore they need more grunt.

Mini do have a very good LSD, it is a $150 option when you order it. It is also a standard fitment when you order a mini with DSC and it is an awesome setup. I have driven a R56 Mini Cooper S JCW with the DSC and that car was so easy to drive fast, easier than my JCW without DSC. Unfortunately ours does not have it because we bought our as an ex demo at a ridiculous price. Even without it the torque steer is not terrible, just adds to the experience of driving a high performance car.
I have absolutely no doubt that I could take my JCW on Queensland raceway and run absolute rings around a stock GT. 155kw, 280mn on overboost and 1100kg of mass compared to 315kw, 550nm and 1881kgs, then you have elements of a lower centre of gravity, a wheel at each corner and superior handling, I know which one I would chose if I wanted to pull the best lap times. I know from personal experience that in initial acceleration and handling the Super Pursuit is way off the pace of our Mini, it is not until you get to speeds that are illegal on every road in Aus that the BOSS is stronger.

An FPV Focus is a great idea, the Gay/Female market is currently untapped.

Funny comment, insulting to some and adds nothing to the discussion, besides we all know the most popular gay mans car is the Jeep Wrangler.

Yes.. and its life span would be about half that of the mitsu 380...

How do you figure this, the small car market is booming world wide and has been for the last 20yrs. Small to medium cars outsell large cars in Australia and always have for a long time. Large cars really are the segment that has a limited lifespan. In 20 yrs time I seriously doubt there will be much of a market for the V8 large 4 door, but the high performance small car will still be going. Of course we appreciate you thoughts, but back them up with explanation.

Going by the responses so far I would say that it would sell and do very well, time to add a poll. Is there any way this can be done now? Need a simple yes they should/no they shouldn't selection.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Going by the responses so far I would say that it would sell and do very well, time to add a poll. Is there any way this can be done now? Need a simple yes they should/no they shouldn't selection.

Sure is, done.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Mini do have a very good LSD, it is a $150 option when you order it. It is also a standard fitment when you order a mini with DSC and it is an awesome setup. I have driven a R56 Mini Cooper S JCW with the DSC and that car was so easy to drive fast, easier than my JCW without DSC. Unfortunately ours does not have it because we bought our as an ex demo at a ridiculous price. Even without it the torque steer is not terrible, just adds to the experience of driving a high performance car.
I have absolutely no doubt that I could take my JCW on Queensland raceway and run absolute rings around a stock GT. 155kw, 280mn on overboost and 1100kg of mass compared to 315kw, 550nm and 1881kgs, then you have elements of a lower centre of gravity, a wheel at each corner and superior handling, I know which one I would chose if I wanted to pull the best lap times. I know from personal experience that in initial acceleration and handling the Super Pursuit is way off the pace of our Mini, it is not until you get to speeds that are illegal on every road in Aus that the BOSS is stronger.



Funny comment, insulting to some and adds nothing to the discussion, besides we all know the most popular gay mans car is the Jeep Wrangler.



How do you figure this, the small car market is booming world wide and has been for the last 20yrs. Small to medium cars outsell large cars in Australia and always have for a long time. Large cars really are the segment that has a limited lifespan. In 20 yrs time I seriously doubt there will be much of a market for the V8 large 4 door, but the high performance small car will still be going. Of course we appreciate you thoughts, but back them up with explanation.

Going by the responses so far I would say that it would sell and do very well, time to add a poll. Is there any way this can be done now? Need a simple yes they should/no they shouldn't selection.

If this thing is any indication of its sales potential then I'm right...

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/ESeries/vxr/vxr.asp

Sales have been abysmal...

Im not saying it isnt worth FPV doing the market research, i just think the Euro/jap contingent will allways been seen as better, and most likely cheaper..

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If this thing is any indication of its sales potential then I'm right...

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/ESeries/vxr/vxr.asp

Sales have been abysmal...

I’m not saying it isn’t worth FPV doing the market research, i just think the Euro/jap contingent will always been seen as better, and most likely cheaper..

Yes you have a valid point with the VXR, but there are some elements to this car that need to be considered.

1 the VXR is not equal to RS Focus, it is on par with XR5 Focus (which is selling very well).

2 The focus XR5 has reviewed very well internationally but the VXR has not, most have reviewed its power as awesome but the handling downright dangerous.

3 In the VXR market segment, it is against to Mini Cooper S, Golf GTI, Honda Civic Type R, Subaru WRX, Focus XR5 and I am sure a few others that I have forgotten. There is some very stiff competition there and cars that in overall package, the VXR is substandard. A FPV would not be competing in this market segment, instead would be up against GOLF R32, Mini Cooper S JCW stage 2 and a few offering from Audi etc. I believe that an RS version would compete favourably here especially as it could under cut some of the competition on price.

At the end of the day, in my opinion (I did look seriously at all the cars I have mentioned before we decided on the Mini), HSV have made an effort at tapping this market and failed. I think the biggest reason for this failure is because yet again they have tried a small car that is beneath their reputation, it is a poor performer and they cut too many costs. Is it that hard to replace a horn pad to get rid of the Opel logo and put HSV there?

Something at the level of Focus RS is not mainstream as the Opel VXR and therefore a different class of vehicle and worthy of the FPV badge.

[MR_LON]

if FPV could do a decent version then yes but they will most likely do a half baked job like the FPV territory.
they want to wait untill they build the focus in Aus before they do an FPV version but why wast the 4 years before ther is an FPV version.

considering the popularity of the XR5 i can't understand why FoA don't want the new RS here, some of the reasons iv'e read about why they aren't bringing it in are just so ridiculously lame.

FPV don't like to rebadge a vehicle .WTF. there is no reason to rebagde the RS it already has a good brand image.

imo FoA something to help lift their poor image yet they reject a car that can help. the XR5 sells its self the RS would do the same

[fou_bleu]

All the hard work for a FPV Focus is done! Dunno what they are waiting for?! Just bring in some RS's & replace the blue oval with your silver oval if you have to! But keep the RS name - it'll sell better! Are you even listening FPV?!!!!

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Cobra

FPV putting R&D into making a decent focus seems like doubling up to me. If they are going to make a decent focus and can't get the RS, then atleast use a number of it's components. It's not that I don't have faith in FPV, remember they have prodrive backing them, it's just that the less money they spend on R&D, the more money they have to spend on better compnents which have already been researched and developed to a large extent.

That is why I am saying they shouldn't bother. It will be a half baked job and probably wouldn't even hold up against the XR5. I am sorry I have no faith in FPV, if they don't have the $$ then maybe it should be all brought back under the Ford umbrella. What is the point of being a performance arm if you can't afford to do it?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

... Is it that hard to replace a horn pad to get rid of the Opel logo and put HSV there?....

You mean like FPV have done on the falcon range? ;)

I can't see FPV doing it, or doing it right.

If they cannot afford to replace rims, and what I'm sure is a $5 badge on the horn pad, on a new model Falcon, what chance is their of them doing a Focus right. And as has been pointed out, if the F6X is an example of of what FPV can do outside of it's Falcon range, then chances are all it would be is a XR5 with strips, painted wing mirrors and a tune with 10kw more.

I hope that Ford see's that there may be potential and they release the RS as it is under the Ford banner, even as a limited run.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Grunter

You mean like FPV have done on the falcon range? ;)

I can't see FPV doing it, or doing it right.

If they cannot afford to replace rims, and what I'm sure is a $5 badge on the horn pad, on a new model Falcon, what chance is their of them doing a Focus right. And as has been pointed out, if the F6X is an example of of what FPV can do outside of it's Falcon range, then chances are all it would be is a XR5 with strips, painted wing mirrors and a tune with 10kw more.

I hope that Ford see's that there may be potential and they release the RS as it is under the Ford banner, even as a limited run.

Maybe it is time from for them to learn from overseas. Really it would cost them more to come up with stripes, painted mirrors and 10kw more from the engine than it would to re badge existing models.

Makes you wonder about Australian manufacturers, standing there saying that euro moels will not sell in volume, as they watch VW, audi, peugeot and countless others take big chunks of the market that they have little presence. I would have to estimate I see more VW Golf variants than Focus???

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Maybe it is time from for them to learn from overseas. Really it would cost them more to come up with stripes, painted mirrors and 10kw more from the engine than it would to re badge existing models.

Makes you wonder about Australian manufacturers, standing there say that euro moels will not sell in volume, as they watch VW, audi, peugeot and countless others take big chunks of the market that they have little presence. I would have to estimate I see more VW Golf variants than Focus???

That's because people see that there's an element of "eliteness" about euro models that Australian built cars will NEVER have....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's because people see that there's an element of "eliteness" about euro models that Australian built cars will NEVER have....

Very true but I think this may be a situation that is changing, as shown by all the euro hatches out there.

Interest generated in the upper level performance cars results in sales in the lower spec models. For example the Mazda 3 MPS generates the interest to the customers but it is the SP23 that they buy, Mini Cooper S generates interest that results in a Mini Cooper sale etc.

Ford should push the idea of the RS, RS generates interest but it is XR5 or Zetec models that get the sale. This situation happens in any model car that you can think of at some level and ford are letting the opportunity to improve in a segment of the car market that they are currently very weak in slip by.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Yes you have a valid point with the VXR, but there are some elements to this car that need to be considered.

1 the VXR is not equal to RS Focus, it is on par with XR5 Focus (which is selling very well).

2 The focus XR5 has reviewed very well internationally but the VXR has not, most have reviewed its power as awesome but the handling downright dangerous.

3 In the VXR market segment, it is against to Mini Cooper S, Golf GTI, Honda Civic Type R, Subaru WRX, Focus XR5 and I am sure a few others that I have forgotten. There is some very stiff competition there and cars that in overall package, the VXR is substandard. A FPV would not be competing in this market segment, instead would be up against GOLF R32, Mini Cooper S JCW stage 2 and a few offering from Audi etc. I believe that an RS version would compete favourably here especially as it could under cut some of the competition on price.

At the end of the day, in my opinion (I did look seriously at all the cars I have mentioned before we decided on the Mini), HSV have made an effort at tapping this market and failed. I think the biggest reason for this failure is because yet again they have tried a small car that is beneath their reputation, it is a poor performer and they cut too many costs. Is it that hard to replace a horn pad to get rid of the Opel logo and put HSV there?

Something at the level of Focus RS is not mainstream as the Opel VXR and therefore a different class of vehicle and worthy of the FPV badge.

Good points, the RS cannot be compared to the VXR. I think It could sell 100 units, especialy given the fact that it would be the only 2 door focus in aus...

..but it would be a more likely happpening once the focus is built here.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Good points, the RS cannot be compared to the VXR. I think It could sell 100 units, especialy given the fact that it would be the only 2 door focus in aus...

..but it would be a more likely happpening once the focus is built here.

Brilliant, Ford Aus build quality, that will wreck it :

The other element to all this is it could also lead to FPV Mondeo. The Mondeo actually has a good shape that would be a good base for a hot version. No international version that I know of so it could have export potential. Start with a XR5 and go from there, sports kit, brembos, sports suspension, lots of possibilities. I think a FPV Mondeo would have to AWD though. Maybe even twin turbo, along the same lines as the new BMW twin turbo six, it is a weapon

[Martyvan]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Brilliant, Ford Aus build quality, that will wreck it :

The other element to all this is it could also lead to FPV Mondeo. The Mondeo actually has a good shape that would be a good base for a hot version. No international version that I know of so it could have export potential. Start with a XR5 and go from there, sports kit, brembos, sports suspension, lots of possibilities. I think a FPV Mondeo would have to AWD though. Maybe even twin turbo, along the same lines as the new BMW twin turbo six, it is a weapon

There was some chatter about the mondeo getting a 6cylinder turbo... as the 'RS' model over in Europe. Think it was based on the turbo 6 from volvo, unsure of spec(and maybe volvo AWD?) but the Focus RS in EU is getting about 300bhp, so would have to be a little more than that....
Do ford even own Volvo anymore?

Anyway, there would be a market for both Mondeo/Focus RS specced models, if they could do them for the right price.

[goof]

Being an owner of both an xr6 and a golf R32, i believe fpv should definatly jump into this market with a high boost xr5. But it would have to have some serious grunt as the new golf wont be having an R32 model, intead it is said to be gettin a awd 200kw+ turbo version. With the rs in europe rumoured to be having some 220kw, fpv could use this to compete againt the higher level hot hatches such as the gold R32, audi s3 etc.
And if they dont seriously look into a fpv focus or other alternatives to just falcons, i beleive their time will come to end just like tickford

[Ives]

I dont think Ford Europe would develop Mondeo RS... but I'm positive Mondeo ST will be available next year. Rumour has it that they're playing around with a 6-cyl. engine for the Mondeo ST. Mondeo XR6 anyone?

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

go back in they wont make it

Too late :

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Mini do have a very good LSD, it is a $150 option when you order it. It is also a standard fitment when you order a mini with DSC and it is an awesome setup. I have driven a R56 Mini Cooper S JCW with the DSC and that car was so easy to drive fast, easier than my JCW without DSC. Unfortunately ours does not have it because we bought our as an ex demo at a ridiculous price. Even without it the torque steer is not terrible, just adds to the experience of driving a high performance car.
I have absolutely no doubt that I could take my JCW on Queensland raceway and run absolute rings around a stock GT. 155kw, 280mn on overboost and 1100kg of mass compared to 315kw, 550nm and 1881kgs, then you have elements of a lower centre of gravity, a wheel at each corner and superior handling, I know which one I would chose if I wanted to pull the best lap times. I know from personal experience that in initial acceleration and handling the Super Pursuit is way off the pace of our Mini, it is not until you get to speeds that are illegal on every road in Aus that the BOSS is stronger.



Funny comment, insulting to some and adds nothing to the discussion, besides we all know the most popular gay mans car is the Jeep Wrangler.

I drove an R53 cooper S chilli (better suspension and bigger rims), it was awesome. I nearly bought it! They're great cars.

In saying that, i'd have to disagree with your jeep wrangler statement and say that a popular gay mans car is a mini cooper

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by GlennBA

I drove an R53 cooper S chilli (better suspension and bigger rims), it was awesome. I nearly bought it! They're great cars.

In saying that, i'd have to disagree with your jeep wrangler statement and say that a popular gay mans car is a mini cooper

That is not my statement, I remember hearing that a magazine found in a survey that #1 was a Jeep Wrangler, Mini was up there though. In the end, who cares?

Besides, it takes a real man to drive a small car :