Luxury car tax increase defeated!!!!!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

Oh yeah, because yachts, rolex watches and expensive jewellery - all of which do not attract any form of additional tax - are bought by the average punter.

As others have mentioned $57k includes some people movers and other family cars... maybe you should read the posts before abusing people indiscriminately.

X2.

In many modern coutries they actually don't progressively tax their populace on a percentage of income basis, they have a flat tax. Here, try to be innovative and work hard we'll fix you up; you can pay for the slack, lazy loser who is taking a sickie.
What a progressive little microcosym of stupidity we live in.
We should be rewarding those that do the extra work, open the small business or risk it all in the name of innovation; not tax them into submission. People who are likely to afford these cars already pay approx 70% of their income on tax(income tax, GST, FBT, etc); why should they pay more than the factory worker on 30% tax?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Your all a bunch of a$$.holes!!

Do you know what the revenue from the tax was for?? INCREASING THE MEDICARE THRESHOLD!!!

I'm glad what keeps people up at night is tax cuts for the rich! The most expesive car in the Ford range the FPV F6X will see an increase from about 75k to 77k

How was it a tax cut!? It was an abolished tax increase!

By virtue of purchasing a ~75k vehicle, you're paying more in stamp duty than someone buying a ~20k vehicle. Fair's fair.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

Oh yeah, because yachts, rolex watches and expensive jewellery - all of which do not attract any form of additional tax - are bought by the average punter.

As others have mentioned $57k includes some people movers and other family cars... maybe you should read the posts before abusing people indiscriminately.

And 55k cars are bought by the average punter???

Most people I know drive either cheap Japanese cars or second-hand Falcadores.

If an extra grand on a 75k car makes it unaffordable for you then you probably shouldn't be buying a car and would benefit from the 10,000's of cars sitting a in lots a few yaers old and costing only half their new value.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by sleekism

And 55k cars are bought by the average punter???

Most people I know drive either cheap Japanese cars or second-hand Falcadores.

If an extra grand on a 75k car makes it unaffordable for you then you probably shouldn't be buying a car and would benefit from the 10,000's of cars sitting a in lots a few yaers old and costing only half their new value.

Average? YES. It is more of an average than it was a few years ago.

Why should someone be penailised because you can afford the extra quid to buy something a bit decent? I am NOT talking about Ferraris, Porsche or whatevers .... as I also totally agree with LTD & Rodp, a FLAT across the board tax, even if it is just 10% ......... the more you have to spend and do spend, the more you pay in tax! Why cant you see that?

This is why the GST was introduced ....... as its fair across the board! Why should I work so damn hard for so long only to be slugged another tax ontop of a tax because I am in a position to buy something a bit better? Cant you see that or is it a tall poppy thing????



| [/url] |

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by sleekism

And 55k cars are bought by the average punter???

Most people I know drive either cheap Japanese cars or second-hand Falcadores.

If an extra grand on a 75k car makes it unaffordable for you then you probably shouldn't be buying a car and would benefit from the 10,000's of cars sitting a in lots a few yaers old and costing only half their new value.

I would say more average people are buying 55k cars than they were 10 years ago. It is called inflation, salaries go up, prices of items go up. What you could get for less than 55k 10 - 15 years ago you wouldn't be able to get now.

Does it matter who buys a car for what price?

The tax is a scam full stop. Why should anyone who has worked hard, saved up and bought a car they have wanted be punished for it?
We are already one of the highest taxed nations in the world.
Why should we be forced to drive the same mediocre cars?

It all reeks of tall poppy syndrome.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I would say more average people are buying 55k cars than they were 10 years ago. It is called inflation, salaries go up, prices of items go up. What you could get for less than 55k 10 - 15 years ago you wouldn't be able to get now.

Does it matter who buys a car for what price?

The tax is a scam full stop. Why should anyone who has worked hard, saved up and bought a car they have wanted be punished for it?
We are already one of the highest taxed nations in the world.
Why should we be forced to drive the same mediocre cars?

It all reeks of tall poppy syndrome.

Why should high-income earners receive tax-cut for the past 11 years while low-income earners receive next to nothing??

[RG]

Let's not turn this into a rich v poor debate. If it does it will be closed.

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by sleekism

And 55k cars are bought by the average punter???

I'd say far more people today are buying $55k cars than, say, 10-15 years ago.

As others have mentioned, the cut-off for LCT has barely changed since it was introduced - it certainly hasn't kept pace with inflation.

... If an extra grand on a 75k car makes it unaffordable for you ...

You're missing my point - it's not that the extra $1,000 makes the car unaffordable, it's that the threshold, rate and concept of LCT is inequitable.

Why impose an additional tax on cars (at a level that catches some people movers and family cars), when other truly luxurious items have no additional tax?

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

I'd say far more people today are buying $55k cars than, say, 10-15 years ago.

As others have mentioned, the cut-off for LCT has barely changed since it was introduced - it certainly hasn't kept pace with inflation.



You're missing my point - it's not that the extra $1,000 makes the car unaffordable, it's that the threshold, rate and concept of LCT is inequitable.

Why impose an additional tax on cars (at a level that catches some people movers and family cars), when other truly luxurious items have no additional tax?

Well than you think Mr Johnny Howard would have removed it. The fact remains that this is an increase on an existing tax.

Playing the "farmers and families" tag by the Liberal party is the real scam. I'm sure most families would be fairly happy in a G6E, SS Commodore, Camry, Mazda 3, Territory etc. all which do not incur the luxury car tax.

The LCT is a tax on the rich and the revenue from it was to be used to increse the medicare levy threshold. Therefore even middle-class "battlers" in the end are no worse off.

We have had 11 years of tax policies favouring the rich therefore it is only fair to have some equillibrium.

[RG]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Well than you think Mr Johnny Howard would have removed it. The fact remains that this is an increase on an existing tax.

Playing the "farmers and families" tag by the Liberal party is the real scam. I'm sure most families would be fairly happy in a G6E, SS Commodore, Camry, Mazda 3, Territory etc. all which do not incur the luxury car tax.

The LCT is a tax on the rich and the revenue from it was to be used to increse the medicare levy threshold. Therefore even middle-class "battlers" in the end are no worse off.

We have had 11 years of tax policies favouring the rich therefore it is only fair to have some equillibrium.

What did I just say, end it now or I will end it for you.

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Well than you think Mr Johnny Howard would have removed it. ...

No. I don't believe the former PM or the liberals would remove it.

Playing the "farmers and families" tag by the Liberal party is the real scam. I'm sure most families would be fairly happy in a G6E, SS Commodore, Camry, Mazda 3, Territory etc. all which do not incur the luxury car tax.

Actually, there is one Territory variant that attracts LCT without any options, and one that would attract it with only one or two options, see here: http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...Page&c=DFYPage

The LCT is a tax on the rich and the revenue from it was to be used to increse the medicare levy threshold. Therefore even middle-class "battlers" in the end are no worse off.

We have had 11 years of tax policies favouring the rich therefore it is only fair to have some equillibrium.

I'd argue that the current state already favours the rich - the super rich. For the super rich, they can buy true luxury items (artwork, jewellery, yachts, etc.) and only pay 10% GST. Yes, if they buy a nice car, they get taxed extra.

Compare that with an average family, wanting to buy a Territory with a few options... no artwork investments, no Hope diamonds... they also get taxed extra on their car - why?

The current system is flawed - either tax all luxury items, or no luxury items. The introduction of the GST was supposed to abolish the confusing multiple taxes that were in place (eg. some items being subject to wholesale sales tax, others not), LCT is a remnant of this era.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by sleekism

The LCT is a tax on the rich and the revenue from it was to be used to increse the medicare levy threshold. Therefore even middle-class "battlers" in the end are no worse off.

No it wasn't.
If it were it would have been structured completely differently. This increase in tax couldn't have come at a worse time. It was ill conceived and thought through.
Adding an extra tax on an industry that was always headed for drastic reduction makes the Governments predicted revenue questionable. If you don't sell cars you don’t get tax. Selling ten cars in the luxury segment will reap more reward than selling 3.
The threshold was wrong, they were told that by just about everyone and yet they continued on.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Why should high-income earners receive tax-cut for the past 11 years while low-income earners receive next to nothing??

We're not talking about tax cuts or income tax, the increase in LCT is the discussion.
a 57k car isn't what you would call a luxury car, try 100K+.
whether or not you earn 100K or 30k, you shouldn't be punished for being able to purchase a car no matter the cost. If I want to buy a Porsche that is my business, why should I be slugged extra tax for it?

[BIGJB]

Forget about the rich. My wife and myself in reality earn well and truely enough to
buy cars worth more than 57k. Why should if we chose to do that have to pay
more tax than some one buying a lesser value car. As it is we pay huge amounts
of personal income tax because we choose to work our guts out and work 70-80+
hrs per week. It really p!sses me off that the harder I work the more I pay %
wise. This country is becoming very screwed for those of us who are in the higher
income bracket. In our cases we both work extremely hard and very long hrs to have
the amount of income we do. If I was buying a new car would the higher luxury
tax stop me spending over 57k..... HELL YES.
Last year we paid more combined in personal income tax than the average Australian earns.
Why...... because we got of our butts and earned it. FFS I even took my
laptop on our honeymoon and worked at night.
So stop bashing the "rich" as you call people who buy luxury cars. We are far from
rich as are most of the people who buy these cars. We just work harder for a
living or worked harder at school and got a higher education.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Forget about the rich. My wife and myself in reality earn well and truely enough to
buy cars worth more than 57k. Why should if we chose to do that have to pay
more tax than some one buying a lesser value car. As it is we pay huge amounts
of personal income tax because we choose to work our guts out and work 70-80+
hrs per week. It really p!sses me off that the harder I work the more I pay %
wise. This country is becoming very screwed for those of us who are in the higher
income bracket. In our cases we both work extremely hard and very long hrs to have
the amount of income we do. If I was buying a new car would the higher luxury
tax stop me spending over 57k..... HELL YES.
Last year we paid more combined in personal income tax than the average Australian earns.
Why...... because we got of our butts and earned it. FFS I even took my
laptop on our honeymoon and worked at night.
So stop bashing the "rich" as you call people who buy luxury cars. We are far from
rich as are most of the people who buy these cars. We just work harder for a
living or worked harder at school and got a higher education.

Totally agree, Australia is a country of opportunity where anyone can make it regardless of background, some people just work harder/smarter than others. Regardless of all this I oppose any increase in taxes - we are already one of the most taxed countries in the world. Why should the people have to pay more tax when our pollies still get golden handshake pensions when they leave parliament. Plenty of other areas to slash spending in first.

BMW M5

$250,000 in Australia
$80,000 in USA

Nah we don't pay too much in tax. Let's increase the tax even further.

[GS608]

the base model Jeep Grand Cherokee with a CRD engine costs $59k barely any luxury items at all, cloth seats, normal cd player etc just basic stuff

why should somebody have to pay LCT on a car that isn't even a luxury car?

the limited is $64k and i wouldn't even class that as a real luxury car, its a foubie ffs.

What about the people who work towards a car, they spend long hours at work, overtime etc, save up heaps make lots of sacrifices to be able to afford their dream car then get slugged with a massive tax just because the govt reccons they can afford it? talk about unfair

[gcg2503]

Top personal income tax rate kicked in at around $50,000 in 2003. Hmmmmmm. What is it now?

Then look at how stagnant the LCT threshold is - that is daylight robbery at its worst

[irlewy86]

Toyota Tarago's are almost spilling of the LCT threshold FFS. Buy a Tarago and call it Luxury I dare ya.

The goverments budget is at complete odds with the review of the taxation system.

On one hand they are trying to rationalise the tax system (wow what a fantastic idea)

And yet they turn around in their first budget and dig up an old Whitlam budget (without the free HECS).

[Nikked]

good stuff, 57 grand cut off to stop people buying 190 grand porsche's sounded silly...

[pauljh74]

When it was initially introduced, the LCT was about the same as double the price of a base model Falcon/Commodore. That rough "formula" would be a fair indication of where the LCT threshold should be today - at about $70,000

[4Vman]

LCT is a crock.. why should people be penalised for working hard? an even system of tariffs is far more reasonable.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

LCT is a crock.. why should people be penalised for working hard? an even system of tariffs is far more reasonable.

Exactly, just like the overall taxing system itself, it penalises those more so even in the highest taxing bracket, the people who worked hard to get a good living and earn well, it suck's to see just how much tax you have lost every yr, enough to pay for a new FPV, oh man.......

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Forget about the rich. My wife and myself in reality earn well and truely enough to
buy cars worth more than 57k. Why should if we chose to do that have to pay
more tax than some one buying a lesser value car. As it is we pay huge amounts
of personal income tax because we choose to work our guts out and work 70-80+
hrs per week. It really p!sses me off that the harder I work the more I pay %
wise. This country is becoming very screwed for those of us who are in the higher
income bracket. In our cases we both work extremely hard and very long hrs to have
the amount of income we do. If I was buying a new car would the higher luxury
tax stop me spending over 57k..... HELL YES.
Last year we paid more combined in personal income tax than the average Australian earns.
Why...... because we got of our butts and earned it. FFS I even took my
laptop on our honeymoon and worked at night.
So stop bashing the "rich" as you call people who buy luxury cars. We are far from
rich as are most of the people who buy these cars. We just work harder for a
living or worked harder at school and got a higher education.

Agreed, people don't earn good $$$ from doing nothing, why punsh those willing to work harder?

Also agree with the comment of ditching LCT on Aussie built Cars.

Someone who earns $250,000 PA, which isn't a MASSIVE wage in a lot sectors, will pay 14.25 more tax than someone earning $45,000pa.

That doesn't mean the high income earner will receive 14.25 times more health care, roads, police and government services. It's more likely that the high income earner will be less dependent upon the government, despite paying a massive amount more.

This high income person wouldn't receive 14.25 as many parks, basketball courts or anything.

Yet, he is being taxed exponentially more for each dollar he earns, creating a larger incentive for the lower income person to work an hour than the higher.

On top of this, if he chooses to further stimulate the economy with purchases he pays disproportionately more tax than the lower income person.

If you work out the extra amount of tax paid by the higher income person including the luxury car tax, it'd be huge. I think it's grossly unfair.

But then again, I'm an economic rationalist.

[BIGJB]

I know this bit I'm adding is off topic but when you look at the tax brackets in
oz at 80k which lets face it is fa, I will pay the same % of tax as some1
earning 180k. Some1 said b4 that the all of the last tax breaks helped the high income
earners which I guess they would class me in. The last tax break in the last budget
I took home an extra....... are ya ready for it......... 23cents per week.
yeah that helped me heaps yet my yardie took home and extra 15 bucks.
Wow with that sort of coin I can now afford race out and buy myself a top
of the range BMW.

[Tles]

I have to think that rich poor or indifferent, this country needs to look at how hard it is being made for anyone to earn some extra cash in their pocket, then spend it on locally produced goods, services, food and veg.
Work overtime and the tax hurts you far more than apropriate. Save up and buy quality stuff and you pay increasing tax. I appreciate how tax supports the artistic and cultural interests of this country, and supports the varied and mixed cultural and economic mixes. Perhaps it is time that we all got back to an understanding of how local manufacturing and innovation by specialised artisans has helped build the nation. To understand how working class men with hard earned cash in their pockets used to carry the non productive services and support the butchers, bakers, mechanics, builders, accountants, lawyers, and all the other local, rather than national or even global, entities which used to be found in the $2 and op shops before the discounters ruled the earth, and every working class hero has no choice but to buy the cheapest stuff around and real lack of job security.
It's not as much about "increased expectations" as they would have you believe. More to do with managers jumping in and cutting costs to guarantee the next promotion or headhunting, moving on before the chooks come home to roost. No fat left on the bone, let alone meat, for the dogs. No we live in a culture which encourages and rewards sucking the marrow out before throwing 'em a bone.

Once watched a story about how the UK tried to copy the production line miracle of the US, only to find little market and to struggle not because of inferior or undesirable product but because the beancounters decided that they needed to keep labour costs low, which funnily enough meant no money flowing out into the market to let customers who wanted and needed the product to be able to buy it. Familiar ongoing story, next comes decontenting, little development money, cost cutting and eventual retrenchment and amalgamation or closure.

[ebxr8240]

Some / most of these cars would be leased or at least tax deductible??
Imo it should be a lot higher, over $80K.
Keep in mind there already IS a tax on these cars..
No point in complaining to a point if around $80k..
If you want to be extravagant ?? Then pay for you MLC !!
BTW i'm in the higher tax bracket..

[balthazarr]

Here we go again: http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/cont...t/00162693.htm

"Tax Commissioner Michael D’Ascenzo today received advice from the Government that it intends to reintroduce the proposed luxury car tax bill. As a result the Tax Office is reissuing previous advice, reiterating how the proposed luxury car tax will apply to vehicles delivered after 1 July 2008."