Hopes rise of new XR8

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

Dont taxi sales nationally prop it up?

Ford don't offer the taxi pack anymore and most taxis on the road are usually bought second hand at the auctions.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Brazen

That statistic never ceases to surpise me. Makes a Titianium 5-Oh even more possible..

Possible, it's a no brainer. I gave a guess at the ratio of Holden v8 sales to gs sales (non premium Sport cars) at 5:1.... It's probably worse than that!

To be fair to ford the i6t is a really good alternative for some and holdens sixes while improved dont really hold a candle to it.

So not only does Holden defy the experts by keeping the commodore number 1, it also sells a lot of v8s.

[Hally]

Taxi operators do not buy taxi's brand new. They purchase one or two year old cars from the auction.

i catch bucket loads of taxi's for work and by my observation there are just as many G6 based taxis as tehre are XT;s in Melbourne.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by mik

i`m not a fan of changeing names all the time, the way i see it people are essentially lazy, and many can`t be stuffed doing homework on 20 different tiers of models and will probably go with what they know, by all means bring the xr8 back with a bit more highlights on the interior.....no more gadgets , just classy it up a bit , any of the coyote/ miami power units would be a winner in the xr8 imo.

No more gadgets?? That is one very good way to make a car fail in 2011!! Gadgets are what is selling cars at the monent!!

[rancidpunx]

I did a job for a older fella who had one of the last BF Fairmonts. He told me they (with his wife) bought a G6E and sold it within 2 months purely because it was not a Fairmont. So they bought the BF instead. His reasoning was they are Fairmont people an always have been. I think he is right. Zetec, Fairmont, Titanium all belong on the G Specs, leave the XR falcons alone though.

Personally I would like to see the XR8 return but i think they have lost the market by now and it will flop when they release it again. The die hards will go out and get one but for everyone else with rising fuel prices and the SS (which will get a sticker pack or upgrade to outshine the new XR8 in the marketing) I just cant see it being a success.

[banarcus]

I'll take my wallet to Ford when they re-release a XR8.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by banarcus

I'll take my wallet to Ford when they re-release a XR8.

The thing is, i don't recall Ford ever dumping the XR8 nameplate. I thought they just had it in hiatus for a period.

The XR8 name works for me and I don't agree only offering a V8 in FPV form. In all honesty I don't know why they need a different brand for their performance arm. The Ford name is synonomous with racing all around the world, yet we feel the need to create a new brand with no apparent racing pedigree in FPV.

For luxury versions I can understand (re Lincoln). But not for performance.

****

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by ford wench

''We've got to figure out what those customers want,'' she says. ''You've got to make sure it's going to be competitive and then you've got to target them, give them what they want.''

So this whole thing is being dragged out because Ford doesnt know what people want? FFS. Hmmm Holden sells this model, it's called ummm.........oh bugger what is it again? Oh yeah - SS. DUH. Take 1x V8 engine, add Falcon body and appropriate suspension etc, offer some options to make said vehicle personalisable and place in showrooms across the country.

How frigging stupid are Ford at times, it is no wonder Holden spank them in sales.

[jpd80]

I think the sticking point is what type of V8 to offer?
It has to be one that can stand tall against the GM 6.0 and not be pipped by the next update
so, by that reasoning, I think a naturally aspirated 5.0 V8 would really struggle against the SS.
That leaves two choices, FPV grandfathering the 315 Kw V8 from the GS or a crate 6.2 litre V8.
It really depends on costs either way and what will get them over the line with fans.

With a set of pipes and good intake, the 6.2 has the potential to bytch slap
the SS back into the last century at a fraction of the cost of the S/C 5.0.

More cubes, faster quarter mile time, the XR8 needs to walk all over Holden

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Taken from another website......

Beth Donovan is the Vice President, Marketing, Sales and Service, for Ford of Australia and a member of the Australian Operating Committee. She was appointed to this position in September 2008.

Now I know this will raise a hornets nest, but I would suggest that Ford's marketing went down hill around the time of FG release, and what do you know, that is when Beth scored her job. If Falcon sales are at an all time low then people like her need to take a long hard look at themselves and their worth to the company. People are about to lose their job because Ford could not organize a **** up in a brewery............

Marketings a part of it, but how can you market cars you don't physically manufacture. The FG has always had pretty ordinary sales, you are right, but for it to compete with Commodore it would have needed more then just marketing, (its missing wagon for starters) then you have Holden's big following.

If Ford have had alot of these projects on time then they would be doing alot better, but the V6 program is what really put a spanner in the works, the I6 was supposed to be gone June 2010, that all changed and created a whole host of issues as they had shelved it at one stage, meaning Euro 4 compliance had to be done in a short period of time. This is why LPG cars and cars like the XR8 got left behind, simply because the I6 Petrol was their main concern.

For Ford to ever turn things around with the Falcon they need a 5.0Litre XR8 / G6E, theres no doubt about it. Every Calais V I see on the road just about is a 6 litre, yes we have the G6ET but not everyone wants a 6 turbo, why not offer both. Once Ford gets G8E, XR8 and LPG back online I reckon they can match Holden once they add Territory into the mix. The other car that is hurting is Falcon ute, XR8 utes were VERY popular, as well as LPG.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think the sticking point is what type of V8 to offer?
It has to be one that can stand tall against the GM 6.0 and not be pipped by the next update
so, by that reasoning, I think a naturally aspirated 5.0 V8 would really struggle against the SS.
That leaves two choices, FPV grandfathering the 315 Kw V8 from the GS or a crate 6.2 litre V8.
It really depends on costs either way and what will get them over the line with fans.

With a set of pipes and good intake, the 6.2 has the potential to bytch slap
the SS back into the last century at a fraction of the cost of the S/C 5.0.

It has to be the SC 5.0... All they have to do is detune it, all the adr / crash / testing compliance is covered from what FPV have done.

Maybe in Series 2 they can make XR8 315, GS 330 and GT 351, would make sense to me.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by csv8

Fairmont Ghia needs to come back but Titanium is much better than G6E,
Really, who knows what a G6E is ??????? MAYBE the FG2 will have a G8E and I can buy Fairmont Ghia badges and rebadge it?????? Then I won't have to buy a Calais V, later this year???????

Why cant you just buy a G6E now??

Your Fairmont Ghia is only an I6....

Calais V?? Lol!

You bag the F out of the G6E but what does the Calais V have that it doesnt? Asside from a drop down dvd and satnav standard?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think the sticking point is what type of V8 to offer?
It has to be one that can stand tall against the GM 6.0 and not be pipped by the next update
so, by that reasoning, I think a naturally aspirated 5.0 V8 would really struggle against the SS.
That leaves two choices, FPV grandfathering the 315 Kw V8 from the GS or a crate 6.2 litre V8.
It really depends on costs either way and what will get them over the line with fans.

With a set of pipes and good intake, the 6.2 has the potential to bytch slap
the SS back into the last century at a fraction of the cost of the S/C 5.0.

More cubes, faster quarter mile time, the XR8 needs to walk all over Holden

The NA 5.0L will be fine, its a new engine for a new age of XR8. Sure it wont have EPAS (well if they pulled their finger out why the heck not, Diesel terry does now). It should be good on fuel, sound brilliant, and go well.

I think some miss the point with a XR8/G8E etc IMO, if these customers wanted a bonkers V8 then yeah of course you would get a GS. But typically they dont, they dont want an anchor but just something that is nice to drive, revs well, has good power and makes the right noise.

The AFM 6.0 makes 260 kW (350 hp) and 517 N·m (381 ft·lbf). The current 5.0L NA 412 hp (307 kW) @ 6500 rpm, 390 lb·ft (529 N·m) @ 4250 rpm.

So it will be down a bit without EPAS, but not a great deal. The engine is fine.

Im with B2TF..its not rocket science, you dont need to make new models, just drop the V8 in a XR6T and call it a XR8, drop it in a G6E and call it a G8E. Of course there will be some unique parts, but most I would think could be leveraged off the Miami anyway.

Simply detuning the Miami is not really a good option, the GS already doesn't stack up well for FPV I cant see a continued detune (again) happening. Your reasoning for buying a GTE diminishes rapidly when you could possibly get a G8E with a 5.0S/C....(although personally I couldnt care less about FPV, they need to add more content at their expense) lets face it, most of these people dont hold the warranty in high regard. And other than some more ECU tweeks they would have to stuff an elephant in the exhaust to bring it down.

I concede its easier and maybe cheaper to drop the S/C in, but I dont believe strategically its the right move. It doesn't solve the problem of the XR8 being expensive (current GS), thats just a badge change. There is nothing else that can be taken out of the GS unless they lower their return expectations on that particular model (which defeats the purpose).

edit: sorry about late edits

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

It has to be the SC 5.0... All they have to do is detune it, all the adr / crash / testing compliance is covered from what FPV have done.

Maybe in Series 2 they can make XR8 315, GS 330 and GT 351, would make sense to me.

I have a preference for the big engine but can equally accept the S/C is probably the best plan
and like you said, the 5.0 S/C is here, available and compliance done - that says it gets the nod.

[aussie muscle]

since commodore and falcon are pretty much twins, Ford needs to differentiate the falcon from the big C. i think a diesel engine is something commodore doesn't have, why not stick one of those in it?

[mik]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

No more gadgets?? That is one very good way to make a car fail in 2011!! Gadgets are what is selling cars at the monent!!

if i`m not mistaken , xr8 will be the entry level muscle car, the way i see it people that can`t afford the upmarket models would be happy with the muscle drivleine the basic xr package and a bit more upmarket interior,................. most complaints i have seen have been for the plain interior, bumping the price up with more gadgets and making the car out of reach to to the people the car is aimed at is counter productive imo.
if they can afford too they can always option up.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by mik

if i`m not mistaken , xr8 will be the entry level muscle car, the way i see it people that can`t afford the upmarket models would be happy with the muscle drivleine the basic xr package and a bit more upmarket interior,................. most complaints i have seen have been for the plain interior, bumping the price up with more gadgets and making the car out of reach to to the people the car is aimed at is counter productive imo.
if they can afford too they can always option up.

It may be the base V8, but for 45-50 odd grand it should be more than basic!! Just my opinion of course!!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

It has to be the SC 5.0... All they have to do is detune it, all the adr / crash / testing compliance is covered from what FPV have done.

Maybe in Series 2 they can make XR8 315, GS 330 and GT 351, would make sense to me.

You could be onto something there. Perhaps what we will see Series II time is a bit of engine shuffling. The XR8 gets the GS engine, and the GS and GT get an updated intercooled Coyote V8. 335kw and 351kw? No need for a H.O. then.

[Polyal]

Goodo, how does that solve the issue with the XR8 and price?

So the XR8 (current GS) stays at $56k, GS gets more kit and goes up to what, $60k or more? A a GT is what currently? $65-69k?

As you add more model in the chain you are closing the pricing gaps. Its a packaging and pricing issue, not power IMO.

If they use the BOSS315 then Ford/FPV will just have to take a hit on the profit on those cars and hope people see the point in going up the ladder to a FPV (GS/GT). That is why I cant see the Miami in a Ford product helping anyone. The incentive to own a FPV should be that its a step up.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I for one would be down to buy a new XR8 ute at around 43 - 45 kay with the 315 motor.. No stripes, no big wheels, just a big power plant!!

SOOOOOOO much fun.. But then they would have the issue with GS ute as they couldnt spec it up with anymore power (as per why the SP got dropped).

Oh well we can all dream I guess.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I for one would be down to buy a new XR8 ute at around 43 - 45 kay with the 315 motor.. No stripes, no big wheels, just a big power plant!!

SOOOOOOO much fun.. But then they would have the issue with GS ute as they couldnt spec it up with anymore power (as per why the SP got dropped).

Oh well we can all dream I guess.

How do they get the current GS down to that price bracket keeping in mind what the GS does and doesnt have now?

Also keeping in mind Ford seems more worried about profit figures per car than sales numbers?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Goodo, how does that solve the issue with the XR8 and price?

So the XR8 (current GS) stays at $56k, GS gets more kit and goes up to what, $60k or more? A a GT is what currently? $65-69k?

As you add more model in the chain you are closing the pricing gaps. Its a packaging and pricing issue, not power IMO.

If they use the BOSS315 then Ford/FPV will just have to take a hit on the profit on those cars and hope people see the point in going up the ladder to a FPV (GS/GT). That is why I cant see the Miami in a Ford product helping anyone. The incentive to own a FPV should be that its a step up.

With XR8 thrown into the mix it would spread FPV's cost further, instead of only selling 700 - 800 cars a year they would potentially sell 2000 + (all with the same motor underneath). So that 40 million spent in R&D / testing on the coyote could be spread across alot more units, making them cheaper.

I reckon the GS has plenty of meat in it price wise for FPV as it is anyways, for a car thats basically an XR6 with a 20 kay surcharge I doubt the motors are costing them 20 kay in materials and original R&D costs.

Basically the more cars they sell with that motor the cheaper the variable costs become, while the fixed manufacturing overhead to build it will stay the same, the variables like development, R & D and testing all come down significantly.

Originally Posted by Polyal

How do they get the current GS down to that price bracket keeping in mind what the GS does and doesnt have now?

Also keeping in mind Ford seems more worried about profit figures per car than sales numbers?

Bit hard to make a profit when your not selling many cars at all. As I said above theirs fixed cost and theirs variable cost. Theres no way they can be making a profit on coyote with the current sales, they are already discounting GS utes well below 50 kay, wont be long before you can buy a new GS ute for 45 kay anyways, you have to remmeber their profits don't just come from Australian production, they also profit from importing and wholesaling cars to dealers too, im not sure if their imports were selling as well as they are that they would actually break even. I doubt Falcon is breaking even in its current state.

[Polyal]

Ah an accountants POV ..nah just kidding.

Your theory works but I still believe a miami is over kill, the BOSS 290 had more power than the SS and still didnt sell aswell so will having 315 really make a difference.

There is no way a Miami would be cheaper unit vs unit to install than a crate Coyote. If it was me id leave FPV out to dry, get coyote here asap, put it in the XR8/G8E and maybe a detuned version optional on all other models.

FPV doesnt have a teary about its aura being dragged away, people who just want a V8 dont have to put up with the excess baggage of a suoercharged unit (not everyone is going to like that whine there constantly..I can hear some handbrakes complaining about it now).

In theory the falcon is around for another 4 years, so they have plenty of time to recoup whatever the costs are for crating the coyote. The one time in my memory Ford has the opportunity to do it with a decent engine and they are sitting on their hands.

[Bossxr8]

I really don't understand the people complaining about the old badges that Ford dropped like Fairmont, Ghia etc.

People are saying they should ditch G6E etc but the G6E absolutely kills the Ghia in terms of % of Falcon sales. Fairmont and Ghia sold bugger all in BF, but they sell in great numbers in FG.

It proves that the strategy worked, why would they go backwards to a tired nameplate that sold in small numbers.

Geesh some people have dumb ideas.

[Falcman0o7]

THE FALCON WILL 'POWER UP' !!! I see great things ahead.

[stang65]

I Agree

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I have a preference for the big engine but can equally accept the S/C is probably the best plan
and like you said, the 5.0 S/C is here, available and compliance done - that says it gets the nod.

Plus, the 6.2 simply won't fit in the FG; it's bigger and heavier than the 5.4 Boss.


There would need to be a reason why one would consider the GS over a possible XR8 - if XR8 gets the Miami then GS should by default at least get better brakes and FPV trim and body kit. As for power the XR8 could make do without the bi modal exhaust and FPV intake.

Personally I'd like to see the na version make it's way into the line-up; but it has to undercut the SS for price as there is no other way you'll get some people's attention, and also made available to luxury models.

As Polyal said though, the turbo is that good it will always pose a problem for the V8's viability. The argument is however, why does Holden sell so many V8s, and why can't Ford eat into that? We know the XR8 ute sold in pretty good numbers so that's a start.
I could be just stating the obvious that most Holden V8 buyers are a) very loyal, and b) private buyers that don't see much value in buying a V6.

[BlackXR8]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

since commodore and falcon are pretty much twins, Ford needs to differentiate the falcon from the big C. i think a diesel engine is something commodore doesn't have, why not stick one of those in it?

LOL a 7.3L powerstroke Diesel XR8

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Plus, the 6.2 simply won't fit in the FG; it's bigger and heavier than the 5.4 Boss.

Are you sure?
It has a much lower deck height but is slightly longer than the 5.4, needs a car intake.
The power output with cam change for F150 raptor was staggering 500 hp...

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Are you sure?
It has a much lower deck height but is slightly longer than the 5.4, needs a car intake.
The power output with cam change for F150 raptor was staggering 500 hp...

Plus an Iron block....and people called the old BOSS a boat anchor...

In addition this is my opinion on Miami in an XR8 with regards to price.