VFACTS - September 2024

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

RAM and Jeep sales collapsing in the US is a perfect storm of very high pricing in covid, what consumers have described as scalping, force feeding dealers, disagreement between Stellantis and unions (quality), Stellantis and dealer bodies (no incentives given, lawsuits, open letters of rebellion) - but mostly a consumer that refuses to pay 60-70K US for a pickup truck they used to buy in the 30s. Ending all the Hemi V8s hasn't helped. They are too late with adjusting prices lower as the covid stimulus effect has subsided.

All US sellers are feeling the cooling of the market, fewer buyers want to finance at the moment
knowing that their jobs might be ending, can’t afford the monthly payment or waiting for lower interst rates.

Stellantis is especially bad because high end buyers seem to have deserted them and inventory
is loaded with hard to sell models. Maybe everyone waiting for a fire sale at cost just to move them

[peaterj]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If you were in the market for a BEV and you bought something other than Tesla, you got rocks in your head I reckon.

I ended buying an MG4 BEV two weeks ago .When MG slashed 10k off the price to shift stock it was a no brainer for me plus 10yr 250,000 warranty i"ll be 80 when it runs out if i'm still standing.

Rocky

[kevino]

Originally Posted by peaterj

I ended buying an MG4 BEV two weeks ago .When MG slashed 10k off the price to shift stock it was a no brainer for me plus 10yr 250,000 warranty i"ll be 80 when it runs out if i'm still standing.

Rocky

You need to post up a review.
I would like to know how all the lane control, active cruise and active emergency braking etc etc go according to an actual owner.

[Sprintey]

Toyota gives up DEI

https://www.news.com.au/technology/h...859366b670c371

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by sprintey

toyota gives up dei

https://www.news.com.au/technology/h...859366b670c371

dei lgtq! Wtf lol impo

[EBSXR6]

Jim Farley announced a similar policy in August.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/29/b...uck/index.html

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Toyota gives up DEI

https://www.news.com.au/technology/h...859366b670c371

Automotive industry - 1
Gay shit - 0

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by peaterj

I ended buying an MG4 BEV two weeks ago .When MG slashed 10k off the price to shift stock it was a no brainer for me plus 10yr 250,000 warranty i"ll be 80 when it runs out if i'm still standing.

Rocky

I'm going to be lucky to go 40 let alone 80

[uranium_death]

A smart move by companies whose job it is to design and manufacture motor vehicles.

Common decency and mutual respect can be an inherent trait of a company and its culture, even without flying rainbow flags or actively celebrating pride once a year.

The "for it or against it" mindset is antiquated.

[Sprintey]

EU member states vote to protect their motor industry:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/europe...landmark-vote/

"A majority of European countries have voted in favour of imposing high tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.

The European Commission – the executive arm of the European Union (EU) – introduced import tariffs to varying degrees earlier this year to protect its car industry from being undermined by increasing numbers of cheap vehicles coming from China.

But now the member states have voted, the taxes have become official – with tariffs on Chinese cars set to rise from 10 per cent to 45 per cent for the next five years."

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

EU member states vote to protect their motor industry:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/europe...landmark-vote/

"A majority of European countries have voted in favour of imposing high tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.

The European Commission – the executive arm of the European Union (EU) – introduced import tariffs to varying degrees earlier this year to protect its car industry from being undermined by increasing numbers of cheap vehicles coming from China.

But now the member states have voted, the taxes have become official – with tariffs on Chinese cars set to rise from 10 per cent to 45 per cent for the next five years."

Germany in opposition to tarrifs.
About as mad as the US allowing millions of illegals across its border every year then paying them to stay.
Incase anyone thinks the Govt has their constituents best interests at heart.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

EU member states vote to protect their motor industry:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/europe...landmark-vote/

"A majority of European countries have voted in favour of imposing high tariffs on electric vehicles imported from China.

The European Commission – the executive arm of the European Union (EU) – introduced import tariffs to varying degrees earlier this year to protect its car industry from being undermined by increasing numbers of cheap vehicles coming from China.

But now the member states have voted, the taxes have become official – with tariffs on Chinese cars set to rise from 10 per cent to 45 per cent for the next five years."

Imagine protecting your own automotive manufacturing industry, I wonder what that feels like

Although the legacy auto manufacturers could also attempt to compete, they all pulled out of the bottom end of the market, now are whinging to their governments that customers are buying cheap Chinese cars.

This hurts the consumer and disincentivises competition

[Sprintey]

That's a tough one Franco as we are almost at that point where things go beyond competition and what is better for the consumer

The cheap Chinese cars are great for the consumer, but are coming from the munificence of the govco which may be co-invested, or otherwise helping or directing produce excess and sending it to world markets. Now, there being no free lunch, this is probably not being done for reasons of capitalism, but rather to cover over their real estate implosion, and maybe also to eradicate competition (and thus, industrial capacity) in rival states. There's also a bit of flag waving and pride in having a flagship auto industry, just ask Australia...

So, the US and EU, now in the target sights, have a couple of choices, they can go total free market to the benefit of their consumers, or they can decide to protect their industry and compete in a weird protected vs protected situation. This is what they are doing, and isn't free market capitalism - but here we are.

Given troubles in the ME and in Ukraine, and the stupendous amount of 155mm shells being used, amongst other things, having sovereign industrial capacity might just be a really desirable thing, just ask Australia...

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine protecting your own automotive manufacturing industry, I wonder what that feels like

Although the legacy auto manufacturers could also attempt to compete, they all pulled out of the bottom end of the market, now are whinging to their governments that customers are buying cheap Chinese cars.

This hurts the consumer and disincentivises competition

Have they done this in Europe though? As in jacked up their new car prices significantly higher than what they were ten years ago.
Their top 20 sales are loaded with small cars or the cross over derivatives.
Curious to know if Euro built cars are more affordable there than what they are here, and how much cheaper a Chinese car will sell in Europe compared to their own cars. I guess the price different won’t be as dramatic as here?
Especially since this market likes loaded cars whereas Europe appear to offer base models.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by smoo

Have they done this in Europe though? As in jacked up their new car prices significantly higher than what they were ten years ago.
Their top 20 sales are loaded with small cars or the cross over derivatives.
Curious to know if Euro built cars are more affordable there than what they are here, and how much cheaper a Chinese car will sell in Europe compared to their own cars. I guess the price different won’t be as dramatic as here?
Especially since this market likes loaded cars whereas Europe appear to offer base models.

you be the judge, but I think Chinese brands are way, way cheaper..

Here’s a link to Ford UK prices (on the road for entry level trim)
Price is in UK pounds, roughly double our Aussie dollar.

https://www.ford.co.uk/cars

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by smoo

Germany in opposition to tarrifs. About as mad as the US allowing millions of illegals across its border every year then paying them to stay. Incase anyone thinks the Govt has their constituents best interests at heart.

Germans have been slowly emasculated since 1945 hence whey they embrace leftist ideology.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by jpd80

you be the judge, but I think Chinese brands are way, way cheaper..

Here’s a link to Ford UK prices (on the road for entry level trim)
Price is in UK pounds, roughly double our Aussie dollar.

https://www.ford.co.uk/cars

Thats a full fat special edition six speed manual Focus ST in that site.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

you be the judge, but I think Chinese brands are way, way cheaper..

Here’s a link to Ford UK prices (on the road for entry level trim)
Price is in UK pounds, roughly double our Aussie dollar.

https://www.ford.co.uk/cars

I don't really care enough to sift through RRP and trim specs of different vehicles in Europe, but a quick google reveals Golf is Germanys no. 1 seller and base model is 20k Euro (32k AUD). Germanys cheapest car is some Renault derivative at around 10k Euro (16k AUD).
Is it possible the price difference between Chinese and Euro cars in the Euro market wont be as great as what it is in the Australian market, before taking into account proposed 45% tariff.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by smoo

I don't really care enough to sift through RRP and trim specs of different vehicles in Europe, but a quick google reveals Golf is Germanys no. 1 seller and base model is 20k Euro (32k AUD). Germanys cheapest car is some Renault derivative at around 10k Euro (16k AUD).
Is it possible the price difference between Chinese and Euro cars in the Euro market wont be as great as what it is in the Australian market, before taking into account proposed 45% tariff.

It’s a pity that you didn’t take the time to at least look at entry point pricing,
it’s generally at least 20% more expensive that Aussie Ford pricing.

What you’ll find with that is the Chinese manufacturers will charge same price
in Europe as they do here but yes, a 45% tax would be some real lead in the saddle bag.
The unfortunate thing is the average punter pays the extra back to the Eu as tax
that the boof heads in government get to spend on their pet projects….