MS2 -> EF Guide (not dial up friendly)

[spope]

You are using the BBM, yes? If so, have you been able to configure the mega squirt to switch to short runners at 3800 rpm, and it takes the fuel maps (and timing) into account? Or are you still letting the standard ECU do the switch?
Also, how exactly have you wired it up? Intercepting all the sensors from the ecu, and then completely bypassing the ecu outputs direct to the coil and injectors?
I am extremely keen on this now, after seeing your results! The electronics seem fairly straightforward (for such a complex piece of equipment) and seems easy enough to tune.
I'd like to see some 1/4 mile times when you next have a chance to run!

[FPV_GTp]

hi

stockstardard vey nice work

one of the best threads i have seen in here

keep up the good work

cheers

[ALS008]

Isnt the o2 sensor out of a BA a wideband unit.

[ALS008]

Just done a bit of research on this unit and it seems to be quite alright for a simple unit. The only thing is i have noticed the VE table is only an 8x8 map which seems a bit restricted in the tunability of the ecu, processor speed abit slow also - 8mhz. Have you been able to get a faily smooth idle and cruise map done yet??

A good thing tho is the auto tune function - this must have made it a bit easier to build a map. To my understanding is it as simple as stating the AFR you like and then just go and drive the car until the ecu/wideband work it out for you. Do you have a screenshot of the autotune function??

Cheers

[Matt_971]

ALS008 I think you'll find the Megasquirt 2 has tuning tables of 12x12 and the processor is a 24mhz speed.

check out this.

http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/
http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mintro.htm

They should clear some things up for you.

The difference between the Megasquirt 1 and 2 are those differences and the MS1 only dones fuel. Plus different features etc etc.

Cheers
Matt

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by spope

You are using the BBM, yes? If so, have you been able to configure the mega squirt to switch to short runners at 3800 rpm, and it takes the fuel maps (and timing) into account? Or are you still letting the standard ECU do the switch?

Yep, using BBM. At the moment the switching is still done by the EEC, and for now I dont see any advantage in changing it over to MS2. It is trivial to do though, same as hooking up the shift light. I also havent done any specific tunes for the short and long runners. It might be becuase im not pushing the limits of timing yet but so far I havent had the need to. AFR's dont cange and there is no pinging.

Originally Posted by spope

Also, how exactly have you wired it up? Intercepting all the sensors from the ecu, and then completely bypassing the ecu outputs direct to the coil and injectors?

No. It can be wired up that way but I dont like cutting wires so this install is done completely seperate from the ECU. The O2 sensor signal was split with a Y cable I made. I fitted a new air temp sensor in the airbox, changed to ED lower thermostat housing and used a second temperature sensor, and used an EA twin TPS for throttle position. Then unplugged the fuel injectors and coil pack from the EEC and plugged in the MS2 stuff.

So far I havent cut a single wire that ford put there and it is a 10m job to switch between MS2 and EEC.

Originally Posted by spope

I am extremely keen on this now, after seeing your results! The electronics seem fairly straightforward (for such a complex piece of equipment) and seems easy enough to tune.
I'd like to see some 1/4 mile times when you next have a chance to run!

I probably wont be taking it to the drags until the new diff is in so its not going to be a fair comparison. I will post some g-tech and dyno results soon though.

Originally Posted by FPV_GTp

hi

stockstardard vey nice work

one of the best threads i have seen in here

keep up the good work

cheers

Thanks mate.

Originally Posted by ALS008

Isnt the o2 sensor out of a BA a wideband unit.

Not sure, but the sensor is the cheap part. Its the controller that costs most of the $, and in factory cars the ECU will be doing that job.

Originally Posted by ALS008

Just done a bit of research on this unit and it seems to be quite alright for a simple unit. The only thing is i have noticed the VE table is only an 8x8 map which seems a bit restricted in the tunability of the ecu, processor speed abit slow also - 8mhz. Have you been able to get a faily smooth idle and cruise map done yet??

They look like the specifications for the old megasquirt. The MS2 is now has 24Mhz cpu and has 12x12 tuning tables (and apparently can support much larger tables in future firmware updates).

Originally Posted by ALS008

A good thing tho is the auto tune function - this must have made it a bit easier to build a map. To my understanding is it as simple as stating the AFR you like and then just go and drive the car until the ecu/wideband work it out for you. Do you have a screenshot of the autotune function??

Thats it in theory. I found the real time autotuning only helpful in working out cruise points. It seems to (wisely) wait for the imput signals to stabalise before it makes changes to the tune, which means its not suitable for WOT tuning. There is an offline autotune that you feed your datalogs into and it tells you what the VE table should be. I didnt play around with it but that might be better.

I found that using auto tune to refine the idle and cruise areas of the map, then tuning the rest by hand to be faster and safer.

as for screenshots: you cans see the autotune checkbox at the bottom of this window. Thats it, just tick the box and go driving

[ALS008]

Cool - sounds pretty good. And well done on an extreamly detailed post. Keep the updated coming.....

[old_mate]

awesome.

[stockstandard]

Today I got the ford IAC working. I used an ED IAC as they have wires comming off so are easier to work with. Wiring it up was simple, red wire to 12V, other wire to MS2 F-Idle, and a 1N4001 diode between the two. I closed the throttle stop so the IAC was in complete control. With the duty cycle at 100% the engine stalls, and at 0% it revs at about 2100rpm. Set to about 60 to 70 makes it idle in the 600-800 range. No more putting up with crappy cold starts for me

So I can now confirm that the IAC on the Ford I6's work with the MS2 as well.

[hornet]

Is an IAC the same as an ISC?

[stockstandard]

Yep. Same thing, different names.

[ALS008]

Originally Posted by hornet

Is an IAC the same as an ISC?

What do the above stand for??

[stockstandard]

Idle air controller/idle speed controller

and my ford book also calls it an ISC-BPA (idle speed control - bypass air valve).

[chich]

Well done mate.. keep up the good work. That thing sounds fantastic and the way it picks up revs is unbelievable!! Sounds prettty smooth through the rev range too.. my EF sounds like a bloody tractor at 4500!

[stockstandard]

Originally Posted by chich

Well done mate.. keep up the good work. That thing sounds fantastic and the way it picks up revs is unbelievable!! Sounds prettty smooth through the rev range too.. my EF sounds like a bloody tractor at 4500!

Thanks mate.

Ive just seen a really cool addition posted on the MS2 forums. This little board converts the EEC4 plug to MS2, meaning you can potentially replace an EEC from EA-ED and EL without any wiring changes at all. The idea is you just unplug the EEC and plug in the MS2 and it all works!





The second plug on the board is there to pass the signals needed to control automatic gearboxes to a new GPIO expansion card for the MS2 currently under development. This would give us the ability to not only retune out engines but also custom tune automatic gearboxes.

[yo_stock]

What about the guages and so forth? Will the MS2 run these without serious tunning?

[EFFalcon]

holy crap, thats an awesome change.
who developed tha?

[Voxace]

Originally Posted by stockstandard

The idea is you just unplug the EEC and plug in the MS2 and it all works!

Jaw hits ground. :sm_drool:

Will someone be making/supplying these?

[stockstandard]

It looks like these boards are in final testing and should be available soon.

I dont know how close to plug n play they will be on our ecus. If someone from the club wanted to contact the maker he might send a couple down for testing on australian EEC's. I would try it but these are no good to me, EF's have a different ECU plug :(

[Matt_971]

I might get in contact with Scott n see what he says hey Mark.

Sounds VERY interesting.

I just need some more money lol.

Also with this new development might get some more interest in the group buy.
But this time maybe someone could give me a hand at organising and CHASING ppl.

Cheers
Matt

[triple8nitro]

I have been reading nothing but megasquirt forums for the last 3 days and it looks very promising , got to pay my bills so i can spend some money although matt have you had any interest in group buy yet : ?

[XRated]

The plug and play sounds interesting!! I wouldn't attempt a DIY job, but you know your stuff.

[Matt_971]

Originally Posted by triple8nitro

I have been reading nothing but megasquirt forums for the last 3 days and it looks very promising , got to pay my bills so i can spend some money although matt have you had any interest in group buy yet : ?

Hey mate

Nah have gone off the idea of group buy. To much hassle. And we only get 10 dollars off the actual MS2 unit. And I found the TechEdge WBo2 DIY Kits (that are pretty advanced I hear) to be cheaper than the one in the US.


So yeah.

Cheers
Matt