Please Slow Down - Fatal Crash **Please Read**

[Danny]

Aeron I Just saw the News update and screamed at all my mates (2 of which drive the same model rex) to come in and look. It was awful.

Then I read that you had been there and my stomach dropped. I could tell from the wreckages I saw on the news that the sight would nay have been pretty. I take my hat off to you a million times, because I could NOT have done what you did. I simply could have stopped but would have stayed frozen in my car, shaking like a little girl.

Good on for for crying too mate, its the only way to deal with what you have seen, theres no other way to deal with it and get over it, especially when you see how easily life can be taken. Good job mate, do take care, and make sure you seek help if at all you need it. It's extremely important.

[sven]

sorry to hear you had to experience such a traumatic experience mate. as everybody has said get some couciling and i hope all is well for you.

[coyote mk11]

Originally Posted by borry

whilst as alot of people have said already, you did a good job in at least stopping, alot wouldnt have been able to. nor had the balls to even walk upto the wrx.

speed was the problem in this crash, however, as it will be pointed out by the policve and media, its not the only culprit.

i hate anyone that says speed was the problem. its lack of drievr education. if that driver was more alert/educated, he would of known the limits of the car, and not taken it soo quickly.

any official reading this thread, please change the system, it clearly isnt working.

ten years now speed has been hammered to death as being the reason people die on our roads. its A factor, not THE factor.

please teach people to drive on the road, instead of giving everyone their license, and then fining them for speeding. a compulsory driver education course woudl assist greatly.

im sure im no tthe only one with this point of view, im sick of seeing ads on tv about speed, its been done to death. try something new for a change...

i speed, and i vote.....

My school has an optional driver training course that can only be done in grade 12 and only if you have your L's permit because of public liability and other insurance rubbish. A course can be compleated at any age. i am 14 and i want schools to actually do somthing about defensive driving not just make excuses about insurance, cost and attendence. defensive driving courses should be compulsury in grade eleven and twelve and compulasy for grade 10. if this was followed through with, there would be a wole lot less stupid people on our roads, instead they would be semieducated people. the only way to learn is experience and experience is the way we learn.

BTW. if a car crash happens and a car was traveling at 80ks wat is the difference between an hotted up xr6 turbo and a holden barina.

a. the media's perception.
if a souped up car is involved, it is a hoon which should not be on our roads.
if it is an old holden barina, it was a freak accident.

b. the souped up hoons car should have better suspention, tyres and braking.
if you are a cop, target old cars that will crash due to car failure not just cars that may crash due to driver stupidity and inexperience.

[RAREV8]

Aeron,

I think everything has been said but I'd also like to say well done to you. It makes me feel a lot better knowing that there are people around who still care enough to stop even when they know what a dreadful thing they wil witness.
I'm sure that the relatives of the victims in both cars are really grateful too- regardless of the outcome.

When you ask yourself "why?" don't ever doubt that you did the right thing; as Keepleft said, you knew what you had to do and offered assistance.

It took balls to do what you did, knowing that you would suffer afterwards.
Have a chat with the councillors- you might find that once youve got it off your chest here and with some professional guidence councillors that the road to recovery is not so long.

All the best with it and keep us posted.

P.s, I saw your car too! :voldar02:

Jamie

I feel for you Aeron. Sorry you had to go through that as I know how hard it is having once been the one of the first at the scene of a fatal accident. It is very disturbing and seek help if you need it. You are not weak if you do it.

If you need to have a chat about it please come past mate.

[kooky]

Sorry to hear Aeron certainly not for the faint of heart, well done mate.

On an unrelated note nice responsible jounalism *sarcasm off*

Why are all subaru WRX's high performance? they are subaru WRX's.......sensationalism at it's worst, grrrrrrr

[OLDFORDNUT]

horrible thing to see mate, get some counselling, one thing i noticed in lots of posts on this subject is everyone forgets the Towies(tow truck drivers) i used to drive for a mob in Victoria, and can tell you quite honestly that towies are usually at accident scenes minutes before the Police, and most try and help as best they can before anyone else arrives, i remember the worst time for me was looking for a baby in the grass near St Kilda road where we could see the Police going up and down the St Kilda main strip while we had this guy screaming for his little girl for over five minutes, turned out he was in shock and mum had baby at home, the two Ambo's, another two Towies and I were beside ourselves with worry as we could not find baby ,god i was relieved when ambo calmed him down with something and found out he had left his baby at home.Police turned up 5 minutes later ,most old Tow truck drivers from the 50's till 90's would have lost more jumpers and jackets than they could remember covering up horrible scenes from little kids and loved ones.i think all emergency services and Police and Towies become hard in their sence of Humour and outlook as a defence mechanism to what they have to deal with,

[Papa Smurf]

Aeron, don't feel bad about letting your emotions come up ok? you are not a sook or anything for feeling for the loss of a human life. I hope you are able to continue to let your feelings out when you need. Professionals will NEVER think bad of you.

I am so sad for the friends and relatives of those that lost their lives. SPEED does kill.

[bscampbell]

Aeron, unfortunately it is a sight that will stay with you for some time, but talking about it always helps.

We were following a car that just drifted off the road and slammed straight into a tree. No brake lights, no swerving, nothing! Most likely had cruise control set and fell asleep.

Two children (3 and 5 yo) were orphaned that day, and escaped unharmed!
Dad was killed instantly, and Mum was just alive, but died at the scene.

No TV news story, and just a very small piece in the paper.
I thought it deserved more of a mention in an attempt to hit home what can happen to a family, especially the importance of rest stops!

A family member called several days later to thank us...that was difficult.

This happened over 5 years ago, and I still think about it.

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by Aeron

I keep slipping into the "why?". When i got to the traffic lights at Cowpasture Road I could get to Oran Park going straight, or I could turn right and go the longer way via Bringelly Road. I turned right.

My boss about ten years ago was having a family holiday driving around Tasmania. He got to a T intersection, Port Arthur one way, something else the other. Will do Port Arthur later he thought, lets see something diferent. On the news that afternoon was all about Martin Bryant. We never know whats down the road we pick!! Just have to deal with where we end up as best we can and you sound like you did an excellent job. am not surprised you said so many cars drove past.
I saw a little old lady get run over in Sydney couple of years ago at pedestrian crossing. I just stopped everything and ran over as probably 50 people just stood and watched. she was lucky, slid up bonnet and smashed window, more shaken than injured. The driver was in worse shape than she was. Was amazed that only one other person came over while i was waiting there.
Never hurts to talk about it but you'll know if talking to your close ones isn't helping and you need proffessional counselling.

[Keepleft]

An appropriate response to this incident from the NSW Roads Minister today.

The Honourable Eric Roozendaal has resisted calls from police and others, yet again, to force manufacturers to install speed limiters and other additional prohibitions, stating "drivers must accept the responsibility for driving at a safe speed for the prevailing conditions" and 'we are not the least interested in creating such legislation in parliament'.

Now, if this were Victoria, what do you think would have been the case?

Like I've always said, NSW is not VIC, for that I am thankful, some of us try 'solidly' to resist often draconian and unworkable in our view, 'southern items'.

The onus, is on you the driver, increasingly so, and make no mistake you will pay at law and sadly life sometimes, for any mistake you make, my advice is to not make mistakes.

The ministerial statement is a clear message to *always* drive at a safe speed for the prevailing circumstances, often - this will be well below the speed limit.

JP
Mot Adv-NSW

[gtfpv]

get it in your heads people speed is almost always one of the highest factors in fatal accidents. if people do an advanced driving course they will be made aware of this and slow down. remember also it might not be you that is speeding it might be someone else .
aeron i think you will need counselling . i have been through shock and you are not yourself for months ( literally) personalities and confidence,memory, can all change causing you to do things you wouldnt normally do for months . it gets better though , but whilst going through it , counselling might be a good idea.

[merlin]

Although it seems obvious in this case that excessive speed on the wrx's part was at fault can anyone actually confirm this - initial reports that i heard stated that the 75 year old driver of the holden crossed double whites and caused the collision.

apologies if this has already been covered...

[Redrum]

Aeron, not a pleasant sight to come across. It becomes much much worse when the family members of the deceased turn up, or we need to visit them to tell them off their loss.

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by merlin

Although it seems obvious in this case that excessive speed on the wrx's part was at fault can anyone actually confirm this - initial reports that i heard stated that the 75 year old driver of the holden crossed double whites and caused the collision.

Originally Posted by Aeron

From the tyre marks on the road it looks like he was going too fast (more than 100Km/h) then tried to make the bend. From the tyre marks it looks like the WRX was in a 4 wheel slide. You could see an under steer mark, then a funny dotted tyre mark from the right rear like the rear end had begun to hop. Then the car collided.

And they also said on the news the driver of the WRX was in the 28 day period waiting to lose his license. Innocent ones left behind was a shocking sight on the news.

[GTP 320]

I know what you must have been through,it happened to me, about 7 years ago i was coming home one early Sunday morning from the airport at about 6am on the South Eastern Freeway now called the Monash Freeway or M1 when i was the first on a double fatality scene and had to confront that myself it certainly is an eerie feeling and you feel helpless as there is nothing that you can do.What happened was that a car that was parked in the emergency lane for what ever reason was hit from behind by an Audi car driven by a middle age women thats was drunk and fell asleep behind the wheel and collided killing the two occupants in the rear seat,two young men around 19 yrs, I had to go to court and all that stuff as a witness which was a pain,in the end she got about 9 months jail.
The funny thing about it was that the Women driver of the Audi won the car on Sale of the Century.
Cheers John

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GTP 320

I know what you must have been through,it happened to me, about 7 years ago i was coming home one early Sunday morning from the airport at about 6am on the South Eastern Freeway now called the Monash Freeway or M1 when i was the first on a double fatality scene and had to confront that myself it certainly is an eerie feeling and you feel helpless as there is nothing that you can do.What happened was that a car that was parked in the emergency lane for what ever reason was hit from behind by an Audi car driven by a middle age women thats was drunk and fell asleep behind the wheel and collided killing the two occupants in the rear seat,two young men around 19 yrs, I had to go to court and all that stuff as a witness which was a pain,in the end she got about 9 months jail.
The funny thing about it was that the Women driver of the Audi won the car on Sale of the Century.
Cheers John

I HATE to say this, but that is one of the reason why Germany mandated warning triangles back in the 60's, they wake up the sleepy/dozing and thats a fact, but we'll ignore that.

NOW I posted this elsewhere in group:

NSW will not legislate for speed limiters.

The CALL for a speed limiter is being raised by the head of the NSW Police Traffic Branch AND Paul Gibson, head of Staysafe (yet again).

The call is for a 120km/h speed limiter. (Utterly ignoring NT and FUTURE 130km/h potential limits for freeways).

The Police chap will raise the issue in a meeting with other interstate heads of traffic policing soon.

NOW, this move was first raised in seriousness by Paul Gibson, December 15, 2004 in Canberra.

The Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries, many safety advocates and professional resisted the idea and for many varied reasons. IT WAS KNOCKED STONE DEAD BY THEN DEPUTY PM, JOHN ANDERSON.

AUSTRALIA will not allow itself to be at an international disadvantage by adopting so.

The POLICE must not get away with this. Utter incompetance.

NB - The 29 year old driver was soon to have his license suspended, he had been caught previously at 30km/h and over.

NB2 - The NSW Liberals are calling for increased vehicle confiscation and sale laws, read for 'speed' offences. If they keep that up, they will NOT win the next election

[TwistedEL]

It is not safe to speed limit to 120 km/h sometimes you need to accelerate beyond that to AVOID an accident...

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by merlin

Although it seems obvious in this case that excessive speed on the wrx's part was at fault can anyone actually confirm this - initial reports that i heard stated that the 75 year old driver of the holden crossed double whites and caused the collision.

So therefore, speed was not necessarily the CAUSE of the accident. I mean, sure, if the driver had not been speeding, he may been able to avoid the accident, and if the Holden had not crossed the lines, then maybe there wouldn’t have been an accident? Now don’t flame me; I’m not passing the buck here, I’m just stating that IF it is true that the Holden crossed the lines, then the police report was incorrect and thus speed was not the CAUSE of the crash, maybe only an increased part of the outcome – would you not agree?



Regardless, unfortunate for all parties involved…. My sympathy goes out to all those affected…

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I HATE to say this, but that is one of the reason why Germany mandated warning triangles back in the 60's, they wake up the sleepy/dozing and thats a fact, but we'll ignore that.

I'm with you on this in principle Keepleft but in reality so many Australian drivers are far less with it than European drivers. It'll be like the introduction of the roundabout - after, how many years is it?, there are many who obviously still don't understand the rules. Some people here will simply drive over the triangle, others will wonder WTF it is. But keep trying anyway!

My sympathies Aeron - a terrible experience for you. You take care.

[red_hotxr6]

OK let me get this straight, they both get to the signposted 80klm post and the wrx takes off at speed leaving her for dead and within a space of a few minutes 4 people are dead. Lets try that sceanario again both of them reach the sign posted 80 klm an hour and the deadset pin pussy cat in the wrx stays behind as they both reach 80 klms an hour, my guess is they would all be at home right now eatin dinner. SPEED KILLS. :

[TIRED6]

Hey Mate,

Take it from me, my rents and i run a small servo and are also NRMA for our area, 3/4 roads leading into town are gravel and its our job to go scrape up the mess afterwards. As said earlier if you start to feel funny or wierd find someone you can really talk to straight away because i have seen some shocking accidents and talking with some one who can relate or calm you in needed is one of the best ways to help recover from the shock of what you have seen and ay be with you for a while but friends and family can really help pull you through it.

Cheers

[oneredED]

Aeron, mate, I respect you immensely for your actions, first of all stopping, and secondly for having the balls to approach the wrecked cars. It's strange that hearing another persons story makes one want to tell their own, but I've never really talked about it. I have seen the results of a fatal accident, on the western ringroad where a statesman had hit the barrier and was about 4 feet shorter than usual. I drove past (because was no-one around so assumed it was an old crash) and it was only when i was directly past it (about 50m away) that i saw the driver slumped against the window, obviously deceased. I was in shock so much so that I almost didnt see the cop car coming head on towards me going the wrong way down the freeway. I was slowing to stop, but felt there was nothing I could do as I didnt witness the accident (the car was stationary when i drove past) and the emergency services would be there before i could get back to the scene anyway... I still regret not stopping, but I know I could have done nothing to help. Should I feel guilty?

I used to have nightmares, but not about that accident, so seek counselling Aeron if you feel even just a little unsettled. The reason for my nightmares was my 16yo brother hit two gumtrees with his head after departing from his motorbike at 100kmh, and clean broke 5 vertabrae in his neck. His best friend/next door neighbour of 14 years was riding with him along-side, and saw the accident. He approached my brother immediately, and started bawling his eyes out when all my brother could do was convulse and make noises like someone in a semi-vegetative state (due to the massive concussion). Hearing my brothers friend tell me this, made me cry, and gave me such a vivid image that I couldnt sleep for weeks... (My brother is fine now, and walking) I feel like throwing up, just typing this even and reading your story, i feel weak. Sorry to tell my own story, but mate, I feel for ya, I really do...

[Aeron]

Thanks for the support guys. You've all helped me so so much. I didnt think what I did was anything special. I didnt do much.

I've felt quite angry today. I dont know why. Then I walk out to my car after work to find that someone has opened their door onto mine and damaged it.

Can I make it clear that the old lady DID NOT cross onto the wrong side of the road, it was the WRX that was on the wrong side.

This is a diagram of what happened. The red line show the path of the WRX. The arrows in both cars show which way the front was facing...

[GTP 200]

Originally Posted by Aeron

Borry is right. Driver education is the key. Driver attitude is also another one. Im sure the driver thought nothing like that will happen to him. It can and it did.

Hi Aeron

I'm very shaken up after reading all these posts. I can't start to imagine how it must have actually been, but I do get a fair idea. I wish you all the best in dealing with this and hope you never see or experience this again.

Your thread as made me think that there must be something I can do to help reduce the road toll.

I'm going to have a chat to some of the national driving schools to see if I can help put together a driver course which addresses 2 big issues:

1. Driver attitude
2. Defensive driving

Once a driving school has established it, I'll promote the course and the use of general driving courses somehow using my filmmaking as a transport to get the message out there. If it can save a few lives a year, its well worth the effort I reckon.

I'll keep the thread updated as to the outcome. If you know of such a course, mention it here.

cam

[rodderz]

Good stuff Cam, if only the government would use that logic too

Maybe it should form part of the Probationary road test, a mandatory road safety/ driving course teaching not just driving skills but sensible attitude as well. Maybe some graphics of some incidents so it sinks in.

Who cares if it costs more, at least it would be helping the youth being better informed about their road going responsibilities

[FPV GT]

Originally Posted by Aeron

I felt like a right goose balling my eyes out in front of the Police/Fire/Ambo's.

Aeron, DO NOT FEEL THAT WAY. Emergency services folk are trained professionals who get on with the job. The adrenalin starts pumping, its head down and ИИИИ up, and you concentrate on doing your job. Its afterwards when you cool down that it hits you. And it is at this time when cousellors, mates and a few beers help you calm down and be happy that you made it home okay

Mate you are NOT a goose.
You are a human being WHO CARES.

Kindest Regards

Paul

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Good stuff Cam, if only the government would use that logic too.

Maybe it should form part of the Probationary road test, a mandatory road safety/ driving course teaching not just driving skills but sensible attitude as well. Maybe some graphics of some incidents so it sinks in.

Who cares if it costs more, at least it would be helping the youth being better informed about their road going responsibilities

Rodderz - THIS is on the way. I remind, - December 15 2004 in Canberra, the Commonwealth, Victoria and NSW committed to a 'trial' of what is expected to become the "National Driver Training Scheme".

It starts its first uptake of pupil this year, quite soon, now.....

NOW you will note SA, QLD VIC slowly adopting 120 log hours and RED and GREEN P plate stages, a 'hint' of future directions. We'll leave this for now..

The program is solidly of a DEFENSIVE DRIVING nature, it will with great determination seek out those pupils with identified behavioural issues and then further seeks to correct that through various intervention strategies.

The program uses 'facilitiators', and driving instructors must be accredited in the program.

At the time, both John Anderson, then deputy PM and the serving Commonwealth roads Minister, Jim Loyd made it clear they wanted practical road craft lessons included. It was at this conference that Jim pointed out his desire to have German like lane discipline and driver behaviour, but accepted it could take a lifetime to achieve here.

After the study period is up, 'results' will studied and hopefully from there it'll progress forward. The program draws on an EU driver training system, primarily Swedish.

Drivers and other road users will find they have greater legal responsibility placed on them for their actions.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by FPV GT

Aeron, DO NOT FEEL THAT WAY. Emergency services folk are trained professionals who get on with the job. The adrenalin starts pumping, its head down and ИИИИ up, and you concentrate on doing your job. Its afterwards when you cool down that it hits you. And it is at this time when cousellors, mates and a few beers help you calm down and be happy that you made it home okay

Mate you are NOT a goose.
You are a human being WHO CARES.

Kindest Regards

Paul

Good point, our emtions are also wanting to grief with others, but we must remain strong and get the job down, I let it catch up with me later.....

[Keepleft]

[QUOTE=new2ford]I'm with you on this in principle Keepleft but in reality so many Australian drivers are far less with it than European drivers. It'll be like the introduction of the roundabout - after, how many years is it? TOO MANY! there are many who obviously still don't understand the rules. Some people here will simply drive over the triangle, others will wonder WTF it is. But keep trying anyway!

Done and doing, then doing 'better' -

:-) See the SIG weblink, WA.

AND page 82 of this RTA handbook - NSW, Pdf 2.92mb:-)
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...uh_english.pdf

AND TAS, Pdf - see Breakdowns -page 73:
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/lice..._v3_part_3.pdf

ACT, QLD, SA make 'some mention' of these and I will set about advancing this. I will make a point of using an actual photograph per the NSW copy, to 'show' people what they should buy (X years before we mandate).


Aeron, anger is all part of this.