Skaifey, Good Driver?

[DRU842]

Here's where I see I big difference in the way Ford & Holden people go about their business; Brock & Skaife are at the top of their game in a top team, without HDT/HRT backing their performances have been suspect in ATCC. Neither really pushed themselves outside this class nor country. Possible exception to this is LP.
Ford drivers seem to look outside of the touring car ranks for the next challenge & have success, before & after. Ford success, when allowed, have been shared around various teams as well.
Just can't go along with SlickHolden assessment of AM, goes against all my personal experiences with the guy; sure he got frustrated with the decisions made last year (who didn't) but the guy has always been up their in whatever form of motorsport he has chosen.

[Bossxr8]

[QUOTE=SlickHolden]

Craig lowndes moved too ford too prove it wasn't the car it was him.

QUOTE]
No he didn't, he left Holden because they treated him like ***** when he got back from Europe. They didn't want him to go and when he came back they dug the knives into his back for doing it. He said he loves driving for Ford so much because they treat him like family, unlike what he experienced at Holden.

As for Skaife, he's a has-been. Can't handle the pressure anymore. Over the past 3 years the amount of times he's stuffed up in pressure situations has been quite high. He's only good when he's out by himself in front. HRT reliability has been poor too.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

QUOTE]
No he didn't, he left Holden because they treated him like ***** when he got back from Europe. They didn't want him to go and when he came back they dug the knives into his back for doing it. He said he loves driving for Ford so much because they treat him like family, unlike what he experienced at Holden.

As for Skaife, he's a has-been. Can't handle the pressure anymore. Over the past 3 years the amount of times he's stuffed up in pressure situations has been quite high. He's only good when he's out by himself in front. HRT reliability has been poor too.

Know that for a fact? He was treated very well and still has his beloved GTS;).
Don't forget holden got him overseas if they thought nothing of him they wouldn't have sent him in the first place. I bet ford treat him well now
Ask the Kelly's about family.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Know that for a fact? He was treated very well and still has his beloved GTS;).
Don't forget holden got him overseas if they thought nothing of him they wouldn't have sent him in the first place. I bet ford treat him well now
Ask the Kelly's about family.

I know that for a fact, he spoke of it in numerous interviews with various publications at the time. Holden did not support him when he went overseas and when he got back they went to a testing session at PI without informing him. He turned upto the HRT workshop and they had left without him. That was the final straw for CL and he made the decision to leave there and then. And Holden didn't send him overseas he wanted to go himself. Holden did all they could do to make him stay. There is still bad blood between CL and Jeff Grech.
See Fords approach with Ambrose to see the difference between manufacturers. They weren't happy to see him go but they did everything they could to help him stay within the Ford motorsport organisation and helped Ambrose hook up with the head of Ford Racing, Dan Davis. Those contacts allowed Ambrose to join Ford Racing.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I know that for a fact, he spoke of it in numerous interviews with various publications at the time. Holden did not support him when he went overseas and when he got back they went to a testing session at PI without informing him. He turned upto the HRT workshop and they had left without him. That was the final straw for CL and he made the decision to leave there and then. And Holden didn't send him overseas he wanted to go himself. Holden did all they could do to make him stay. There is still bad blood between CL and Jeff Grech.
See Fords approach with Ambrose to see the difference between manufacturers. They weren't happy to see him go but they did everything they could to help him stay within the Ford motorsport organisation and helped Ambrose hook up with the head of Ford Racing, Dan Davis. Those contacts allowed Ambrose to join Ford Racing.

It's a lot easier for MA to travel into ford motor racing overseas.
Having a fight with one doesn't mean a fight with all. He just got sick of people saying he wasn't as good as the dominate car. He proved them wrong.

[LeadFoot81]

It will take a very long time for any other driver to match Skaife's stats in the V8 Supercars.

This is because the amazing era of HRT domination came at a time when TWR had a cashed up data sharing cartel; there was no parity in the series; Ford Oz had little or no interest in the V8s, and had no comparable Factory Team.

As soon as ALL these issues were resolved, things changed very quickly. Ford took and interest in teh V8s and Geoff Polites threw bucket loads of Tennis money at the V8s, Ford Racing tackled parity porblems head, Craig Lowndes left Holden and MarcOs Ambrose joined Stone Brothers and started WINNING races from Skaife. These two guys helped bring attention back to a sport that had become the HRT steam train for too long. The TWR teams were split up, the Ford teams got a BA weapon they could fight back and HRT died on the ***.

Mark Skaife is a good driver, but he is not a great driver and hes made plenty of mistakes trying to over drive his under performing race car. Now that theres a level plating field how many different race/round winners have we had over the last few seasons? Mark Skaife won a lot of races/rounds/championships and Bathursts during that dominant era, but its just not the equivalent of doing what Ambrose did, or Lowndes did at The Mountain a couple of weeks ago.

And Holden did treat Lowndes like s**t when he came back from overseas. But at Ford they all love him!

[Full Spectrum]

How many championships did skaife win when his team mates was CL?

[56L]

latest news from MNEWS (motorsport news ) is that the hand brake device that was introduced for take offs failed and like i said before there was something mechanical wrong because as far as i am concerned if he took off in 3rd he would have been alot further than 10th by the first corner especially with 3.15 gear ratio and full tank of gas its harder enough to take off in first let alone 3rd.
I think we should be leaving the stupid comments about his driving ability alone as thats one thing i expect from the holden fans with there bulls**t excuses at the end of the day he took pole when the pressure was on and most likely a mechanical problem took him out of the race.

At the end of the day he is probably a bit of a knob but isnt m. shumacher and how good is he .

Not everbody can have friendly personality,s with the likes of lowndsey and seton and i am sure we all get the enjoyment out of watching skaifey fail as he is the hsv kingpin ,its nearly as good as watching manly go down in the NRL :evil_laug

[BOSS 540]

"Im giving Bathurst a red hot go" said big nose just before the race. I like all true believers, LMAO when all he got was a "red hot clutch" suck sh#t hsv!!

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by 56L

latest news from MNEWS (motorsport news ) is that the hand brake device that was introduced for take offs failed and like i said before there was something mechanical wrong because as far as i am concerned if he took off in 3rd he would have been alot further than 10th by the first corner especially with 3.15 gear ratio and full tank of gas its harder enough to take off in first let alone 3rd.
I think we should be leaving the stupid comments about his driving ability alone as thats one thing i expect from the holden fans with there bulls**t excuses at the end of the day he took pole when the pressure was on and most likely a mechanical problem took him out of the race.

At the end of the day he is probably a bit of a knob but isnt m. shumacher and how good is he .

Not everbody can have friendly personality,s with the likes of lowndsey and seton and i am sure we all get the enjoyment out of watching skaifey fail as he is the hsv kingpin ,its nearly as good as watching manly go down in the NRL :evil_laug

56L the incar audio played on the day sounded like a clutch slip, and if the handbrake device was jammed on, he would have known that when they spoke to him. Even he said himself if was a clutch. If the handbrake device is designed to hold a V8Supercar on the line at redline for launch control, then doesn't it seem unusual that he was able to move off the line at all? His car wouldn't have been able to move at all if it was jammed on, or it would have stalled wouldn't it? Skaife has been around long enough to know what a failed clutch feels responds and sounds like.

I think this is a little bit of fancy footwork and face saving. How would it look to the Red fans if their 4 time champion (skaife) has potentially cost one of their potential contenders (tander) a shot at the title and the mountain in the most emotional of years for the holden fans. I doubt even if he did start in 3rd, we will never be told the truth until it doesn't matter.

and I still think Skaife being this apparent guru, should have pulled his car off the track TOTALLY, and not tried to limp round the track. I still maintain Skaife took Jack Perkins out of the race in a stupid and invain attempt to drive around the track to get to the pits. If he knew his day was done with a clutch, WHY didn't he just pull completely off the track!!!

BTW I hear you about Manly. Amen to that.

[Nostalgia]

Bottom line is that FORD WON Thats all that matters.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

How many championships did skaife win when his team mates was CL?

Only one. 2000. That's the year when Lowndes was starting to get a bit fed up with HRT and their focus on Skaife (like going testing and not telling Lowndes). The next year Lowndes was in a Ford. Lowndes won three championships for HRT, 96' , 98' and 99'

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by Darran

I was under the impression that Walkinshaw came back in, and purchased it back from Skaife, so he could focus on his driving commitments?
I have been wrong before.

dunno on that. Seeing as how Walkinshaw was bankrupt it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of arrangement in place beforehand.

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

... John bowe as far as i am concerned they just circulate, ...

Bowe is an excellent adn highly skilled driver with a lot of credits (25 pole positions speaks for itself - add to that his open wheel success). He is just circulating at present - maybe he is past it, not as enthusiatic as he has been in the past or just not in the right team. At his peak he was capable of blasting just about anyone off the track and has done so. He's tended to take a bit of a back seat to other drivers which is a shame.

[Bill_R]

No he didn't, he left Holden because they treated him like ***** when he got back from Europe.

that's the way Holden treats its drivers. they treated Brock the same way and that is part of the reason he had a fallout with them. they use you and then toss you aside.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

56L the incar audio played on the day sounded like a clutch slip, and if the handbrake device was jammed on, he would have known that when they spoke to him. Even he said himself if was a clutch. If the handbrake device is designed to hold a V8Supercar on the line at redline for launch control, then doesn't it seem unusual that he was able to move off the line at all? His car wouldn't have been able to move at all if it was jammed on, or it would have stalled wouldn't it? Skaife has been around long enough to know what a failed clutch feels responds and sounds like.

I think this is a little bit of fancy footwork and face saving. How would it look to the Red fans if their 4 time champion (skaife) has potentially cost one of their potential contenders (tander) a shot at the title and the mountain in the most emotional of years for the holden fans. I doubt even if he did start in 3rd, we will never be told the truth until it doesn't matter.

and I still think Skaife being this apparent guru, should have pulled his car off the track TOTALLY, and not tried to limp round the track. I still maintain Skaife took Jack Perkins out of the race in a stupid and invain attempt to drive around the track to get to the pits. If he knew his day was done with a clutch, WHY didn't he just pull completely off the track!!!

BTW I hear you about Manly. Amen to that.

Because sometimes if it's just slip they can fix themselves it's happen before. No driver with some slipping is going too stop at bathuirst when there is life left in the car on the first lap unless it's real terminal.

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

Only one. 2000. That's the year when Lowndes was starting to get a bit fed up with HRT and their focus on Skaife (like going testing and not telling Lowndes). The next year Lowndes was in a Ford. Lowndes won three championships for HRT, 96' , 98' and 99'

Getting fed up with coming seconds to skaife maybe?.
Not liking the 2nd driver tag things like this can be believed with a full picture.

Originally Posted by Bill_R

that's the way Holden treats its drivers. they treated Brock the same way and that is part of the reason he had a fallout with them. they use you and then toss you aside.

Mate don't even dare talk about that.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Because sometimes if it's just slip they can fix themselves it's happen before. No driver with some slipping is going too stop at bathuirst when there is life left in the car on the first lap unless it's real terminal.

You must not have have listened to your hero. : SKAIFE said that he thought it was just initial slip and that is does sometime free up, but that he had got to 5TH GEAR with no drive. Sounds terminal to me, sounded terminal to Skaife, but apparently not you?? I guess I am only going off what was reported by the man driving the car, and this may pale in possibility when compared with your obvious V8Supercar experience?

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Getting fed up with coming seconds to skaife maybe?.
Not liking the 2nd driver tag things like this can be believed with a full picture.

I am not sure if you understand the structure of a motor sport team. You normally have a lead driver, and then a number 2 driver. If you have a championship winner, or defending champion, they get the best resources at the team's disposal. What happened to Lowndes was that all of the engineers, mechanics, and other staff assigned to his car during his 2 previous championship wins were swapped in 2000 with the 2nd rung team that were assigned to Skaifes car during the '98 & ’99 seasons. This was done because SKAIFE was sick of coming second, not Lowndes. Lowndes left Holden for a number of reasons, one of them being because under his 10 year management arrangement, John Crennan was his manager AND his boss. A major conflict of interest, wouldn’t you agree? They tried to control everything, even down to CL having a website. Coupling this with the activities of the team management, it’s no wonder CL left to find a better deal at Ford.
skaife’s issue was that he was hired as a mercenary for Brock’s last crack at the mountain in 1997, and did a job by putting the car on pole. At the end of the motor sport season, he was being groomed to take over at HRT as the lead driver, as Lowndes was in Europe, and Brock was retiring. When it was announced that Lowndes was coming back, HRT flicked Greg Murphy who during the 1997 season had a full time drive at HRT, in favour of keeping Skaife as #2, and returning Lowndes to #1 driver status. That is the reality.
When Jason bright joined HRT, he did so because he said it was the best team at the time, and he was there to beat skaife too. However skaife made sure that he kept the top level staff on his car, and no deal was done to swap staff for Jason Bright. Maybe Skaife was concerned that he might end up in the shadows of a younger bloke that would make him look past it……
To say that Lowndes was sick of coming second is a ridiculous statement. Lowndes does not spit the dummy that quickly as is proven by his patience during his stay at Ford. He has been shuffled around in search of a team that could deliver him the tools to win a championship, but has not left. In fact I think he extended his contact early in the peace because Ford treats him better. He is yet to win a championship with the Blue Oval, but his was second last year, has broken the Bathurst drought in 2006 and I think he will go one to be a great Ford hero to his fans.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Mate don't even dare talk about that

No I think we should dare to talk about that! ing_sm

Let’s see, despite Brock’s loyalty to the lion, he was ceremoniously dumped in 1987 by GMH over the polariser. This incident disillusioned Larry Perkins and prompted him to split with the factory too and start his own team.

We have just covered the shafting that Lowndes copped. What type of team goes for a practice day and does not tell their lead driver??? :

In 1998 Greg Murphy was stripped of his full time drive to make way for Skaife in 1998, despite coming 4th in the 1997 championship with 3 round wins and 8 front row starts. He ran the long distance races only in 1998, left and went to Gibson Motorsport and won Bathurst with Steven Richards.

Do you see a pattern occurring? Don’t be surprised if in a few years when Skaife won't jump, HRT have a restructure of sorts, give him a push, and your hero skaife ends up on the HRT/holden scrap heap.

have a nice day :jab:

[LUXO_8]

LOL...owned!

this thread makes for great reading...

[red_hotxr6]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

You must not have have listened to your hero. : SKAIFE said that he thought it was just initial slip and that is does sometime free up, but that he had got to 5TH GEAR with no drive. Sounds terminal to me, sounded terminal to Skaife, but apparently not you?? I guess I am only going off what was reported by the man driving the car, and this may pale in possibility when compared with your obvious V8Supercar experience?


I am not sure if you understand the structure of a motor sport team. You normally have a lead driver, and then a number 2 driver. If you have a championship winner, or defending champion, they get the best resources at the team's disposal. What happened to Lowndes was that all of the engineers, mechanics, and other staff assigned to his car during his 2 previous championship wins were swapped in 2000 with the 2nd rung team that were assigned to Skaifes car during the '98 & ’99 seasons. This was done because SKAIFE was sick of coming second, not Lowndes. Lowndes left Holden for a number of reasons, one of them being because under his 10 year management arrangement, John Crennan was his manager AND his boss. A major conflict of interest, wouldn’t you agree? They tried to control everything, even down to CL having a website. Coupling this with the activities of the team management, it’s no wonder CL left to find a better deal at Ford.
skaife’s issue was that he was hired as a mercenary for Brock’s last crack at the mountain in 1997, and did a job by putting the car on pole. At the end of the motor sport season, he was being groomed to take over at HRT as the lead driver, as Lowndes was in Europe, and Brock was retiring. When it was announced that Lowndes was coming back, HRT flicked Greg Murphy who during the 1997 season had a full time drive at HRT, in favour of keeping Skaife as #2, and returning Lowndes to #1 driver status. That is the reality.
When Jason bright joined HRT, he did so because he said it was the best team at the time, and he was there to beat skaife too. However skaife made sure that he kept the top level staff on his car, and no deal was done to swap staff for Jason Bright. Maybe Skaife was concerned that he might end up in the shadows of a younger bloke that would make him look past it……
To say that Lowndes was sick of coming second is a ridiculous statement. Lowndes does not spit the dummy that quickly as is proven by his patience during his stay at Ford. He has been shuffled around in search of a team that could deliver him the tools to win a championship, but has not left. In fact I think he extended his contact early in the peace because Ford treats him better. He is yet to win a championship with the Blue Oval, but his was second last year, has broken the Bathurst drought in 2006 and I think he will go one to be a great Ford hero to his fans.


No I think we should dare to talk about that! ing_sm

Let’s see, despite Brock’s loyalty to the lion, he was ceremoniously dumped in 1987 by GMH over the polariser. This incident disillusioned Larry Perkins and prompted him to split with the factory too and start his own team.

We have just covered the shafting that Lowndes copped. What type of team goes for a practice day and does not tell their lead driver??? :

In 1998 Greg Murphy was stripped of his full time drive to make way for Skaife in 1998, despite coming 4th in the 1997 championship with 3 round wins and 8 front row starts. He ran the long distance races only in 1998, left and went to Gibson Motorsport and won Bathurst with Steven Richards.

Do you see a pattern occurring? Don’t be surprised if in a few years when Skaife won't jump, HRT have a restructure of sorts, give him a push, and your hero skaife ends up on the HRT/holden scrap heap.

have a nice day :jab:

Obviously you were watching a different race from me because on numerous occasions you could hear Lowndes being told to take it easy when he was "running second" to skaife.At any given time lowndes coul easily have taken it to skaife and beaten him to 1 st place, but that was not acceptable to holden to have a young gun outshine their star. And Since he has left them i will bet you he has never looked back.Skaife is slowly going out the back door as he has neither the talent or the backup like lowndes to keep the other drivers off his back.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

You must not have have listened to your hero. : SKAIFE said that he thought it was just initial slip and that is does sometime free up, but that he had got to 5TH GEAR with no drive. Sounds terminal to me, sounded terminal to Skaife, but apparently not you?? I guess I am only going off what was reported by the man driving the car, and this may pale in possibility when compared with your obvious V8Supercar experience?

**** i pulled 3-4th gears and got no drive. Simple cable problem not terminal.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

I am not sure if you understand the structure of a motor sport team. You normally have a lead driver, and then a number 2 driver. If you have a championship winner, or defending champion, they get the best resources at the team's disposal. What happened to Lowndes was that all of the engineers, mechanics, and other staff assigned to his car during his 2 previous championship wins were swapped in 2000 with the 2nd rung team that were assigned to Skaifes car during the '98 & ’99 seasons. This was done because SKAIFE was sick of coming second, not Lowndes. Lowndes left Holden for a number of reasons, one of them being because under his 10 year management arrangement, John Crennan was his manager AND his boss. A major conflict of interest, wouldn’t you agree? They tried to control everything, even down to CL having a website. Coupling this with the activities of the team management, it’s no wonder CL left to find a better deal at Ford.
skaife’s issue was that he was hired as a mercenary for Brock’s last crack at the mountain in 1997, and did a job by putting the car on pole. At the end of the motor sport season, he was being groomed to take over at HRT as the lead driver, as Lowndes was in Europe, and Brock was retiring. When it was announced that Lowndes was coming back, HRT flicked Greg Murphy who during the 1997 season had a full time drive at HRT, in favour of keeping Skaife as #2, and returning Lowndes to #1 driver status. That is the reality.
When Jason bright joined HRT, he did so because he said it was the best team at the time, and he was there to beat skaife too. However skaife made sure that he kept the top level staff on his car, and no deal was done to swap staff for Jason Bright. Maybe Skaife was concerned that he might end up in the shadows of a younger bloke that would make him look past it……
To say that Lowndes was sick of coming second is a ridiculous statement. Lowndes does not spit the dummy that quickly as is proven by his patience during his stay at Ford. He has been shuffled around in search of a team that could deliver him the tools to win a championship, but has not left. In fact I think he extended his contact early in the peace because Ford treats him better. He is yet to win a championship with the Blue Oval, but his was second last year, has broken the Bathurst drought in 2006 and I think he will go one to be a great Ford hero to his fans.

Most teams have driver 1-2 most teams don't. And i doubt with the expertise holden HRT have there wouldn't be many 2nd rate people working for them.
But do you know that CL didn't crack a sissy fit?
Say what you wont about skaife and pick at me about him, But it changes nothing at all about his driving. He is still the best driver in the field with the most pressure.
I'm sure everyone in the blue oval loves CL now. Not that many thought much of him when he driver the green eyed monster.
And **** which part of the wall do you have the spy equipment on down at holden and HRT. Skaife done this skaife done that, You know alot about him that i think you need to get over your love for him and just come out now OK his taken. Still having trouble moving on with the Godzilla Bathurst accident?

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

No I think we should dare to talk about that! ing_sm

Let’s see, despite Brock’s loyalty to the lion, he was ceremoniously dumped in 1987 by GMH over the polariser. This incident disillusioned Larry Perkins and prompted him to split with the factory too and start his own team.

We have just covered the shafting that Lowndes copped. What type of team goes for a practice day and does not tell their lead driver??? :

In 1998 Greg Murphy was stripped of his full time drive to make way for Skaife in 1998, despite coming 4th in the 1997 championship with 3 round wins and 8 front row starts. He ran the long distance races only in 1998, left and went to Gibson Motorsport and won Bathurst with Steven Richards.

Do you see a pattern occurring? Don’t be surprised if in a few years when Skaife won't jump, HRT have a restructure of sorts, give him a push, and your hero skaife ends up on the HRT/holden scrap heap.

have a nice day :jab:

You still don't know much about the pulveriser so don't talk about it, What happen with them wasn't good but what happen to the pulveriser?.

And do you think a team needs 2 drivers to test a car? For all you know Mr squiggles they were testing new engines or suspension parts like they really need 2 drivers or any of them for that matter.

LP and PB had a touch of a falling out most don't know about, LP was looking to move on if they both got the **** with Holden they both would have been at Ford the next year, But LP was looking at going his own way. He was starting too get the **** with doing most of the work for no praise reward nothing too do with the pulveriser.

And don't worry about Murphy he was brought back to the factory.

Ford a family that looks after there loyal drievrs? Don't say that too the Rat.
Even herd Ambrose moan about other ford drivers all year when he was trying too win the championship for the first time. No-one would back him up great family support. Win it and they back you up alright;).

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

You must not have have listened to your hero. : SKAIFE said that he thought it was just initial slip and that is does sometime free up, but that he had got to 5TH GEAR with no drive. Sounds terminal to me, sounded terminal to Skaife, but apparently not you?? I guess I am only going off what was reported by the man driving the car, and this may pale in possibility when compared with your obvious V8Supercar experience?


I am not sure if you understand the structure of a motor sport team. You normally have a lead driver, and then a number 2 driver. If you have a championship winner, or defending champion, they get the best resources at the team's disposal. What happened to Lowndes was that all of the engineers, mechanics, and other staff assigned to his car during his 2 previous championship wins were swapped in 2000 with the 2nd rung team that were assigned to Skaifes car during the '98 & ’99 seasons. This was done because SKAIFE was sick of coming second, not Lowndes. Lowndes left Holden for a number of reasons, one of them being because under his 10 year management arrangement, John Crennan was his manager AND his boss. A major conflict of interest, wouldn’t you agree? They tried to control everything, even down to CL having a website. Coupling this with the activities of the team management, it’s no wonder CL left to find a better deal at Ford.
skaife’s issue was that he was hired as a mercenary for Brock’s last crack at the mountain in 1997, and did a job by putting the car on pole. At the end of the motor sport season, he was being groomed to take over at HRT as the lead driver, as Lowndes was in Europe, and Brock was retiring. When it was announced that Lowndes was coming back, HRT flicked Greg Murphy who during the 1997 season had a full time drive at HRT, in favour of keeping Skaife as #2, and returning Lowndes to #1 driver status. That is the reality.
When Jason bright joined HRT, he did so because he said it was the best team at the time, and he was there to beat skaife too. However skaife made sure that he kept the top level staff on his car, and no deal was done to swap staff for Jason Bright. Maybe Skaife was concerned that he might end up in the shadows of a younger bloke that would make him look past it……
To say that Lowndes was sick of coming second is a ridiculous statement. Lowndes does not spit the dummy that quickly as is proven by his patience during his stay at Ford. He has been shuffled around in search of a team that could deliver him the tools to win a championship, but has not left. In fact I think he extended his contact early in the peace because Ford treats him better. He is yet to win a championship with the Blue Oval, but his was second last year, has broken the Bathurst drought in 2006 and I think he will go one to be a great Ford hero to his fans.


No I think we should dare to talk about that! ing_sm

Let’s see, despite Brock’s loyalty to the lion, he was ceremoniously dumped in 1987 by GMH over the polariser. This incident disillusioned Larry Perkins and prompted him to split with the factory too and start his own team.

We have just covered the shafting that Lowndes copped. What type of team goes for a practice day and does not tell their lead driver??? :

In 1998 Greg Murphy was stripped of his full time drive to make way for Skaife in 1998, despite coming 4th in the 1997 championship with 3 round wins and 8 front row starts. He ran the long distance races only in 1998, left and went to Gibson Motorsport and won Bathurst with Steven Richards.

Do you see a pattern occurring? Don’t be surprised if in a few years when Skaife won't jump, HRT have a restructure of sorts, give him a push, and your hero skaife ends up on the HRT/holden scrap heap.

have a nice day :jab:

that's the way it works with Holden. I recall seeing a doco/interview where the way they operate was exposed. I think Brocky had a say about it. It's business and it's marketing and it's ruthless. That's not to say that Ford aren't a bit ruthless too but if you look at the way they have stuck it out with some teams (DJR, FPV and 888 are examples) then I think you'd see they tend to be a bit more supportive and commited to their teams.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

**** i pulled 3-4th gears and got no drive. Simple cable problem not terminal.

Well I stand corrected then, refresh my memory? Which round of the Supercar championship did this occur to you? Which race did you start in 3rd gear? Which car were you racing? Or does your VP have a triple plate 7” racing clutch and 6 speed Hollinger in it?? How many laps did you loose while your mechanics fixed it in the pits? Cause you would be a household name and a magician to come back from a destroyed clutch to stand a chance of winning the race.

I consider any V8Supercar that has major clutch slip getting off the start line and all the way to 5th gear at 10am the morning of Bathurst has a terminal problem and will not see out the race. The only time when something remotely close to this happened (and it was not a clutch) occurred was in 1995 when Larry Perkins had to pit on the first lap to replace a punctured tyre after a clash with Lowndes, and Perkins came from last to first the win after Glenn Seton’s car expired 9 laps from the finish.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Most teams have driver 1-2 most teams don't.

There are only 3 teams that field one car. TKR, Autobarn Racing and PCR. 3 teams out of 17 are hardly what anyone would classify as “most” as you put it. Besides, these teams are Level 2 teams, and do not have the contractual commitments that the Level 1 teams have, in relation to always fielding 2 cars per meeting. Seems you don’t have all the facts here.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

But do you know that CL didn't crack a sissy fit?

The question is do you know? You were knowledgeable enough to make the following remark in a previous post.

Getting fed up with coming seconds to skaife maybe?.
Not liking the 2nd driver tag things like this can be believed with a full picture.

Are you now suggesting that you were merely speculating and that your statements are not based in fact? Par for the course it seems.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Say what you wont about skaife and pick at me about him, But it changes nothing at all about his driving. He is still the best driver in the field with the most pressure.

Yeah thanks for that, I was really looking for your permission to have my own opinion on skaife, and I will say what I want. In regard to picking on you, if you can’t take the responses infant, don’t play with the adults. I said previously that I have never rated him a great driver and never will. Nothing you say will change my mind on that. You have to learn to accept that some people do not think skaife is all you believe him to be, and some like myself, think he is even less.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I'm sure everyone in the blue oval loves CL now. Not that many thought much of him when he driver the green eyed monster.

Yes we do actually and send a big cheery thank you the Head of holden Motorsport at the time, for suggesting to Fred Gibson to contact Craig Lowndes about driving one of his crummydores in the 2001 season and in the process, lost Lowndes and Gibson to us. Remember too that the Green Eyed Monster was a 2.5 year old Ex-SBR Chassis. That car did not even have a Perkins bar in it when they first got it.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

And **** which part of the wall do you have the spy equipment on down at holden and HRT. Skaife done this skaife done that, You know alot about him

Look who’s talking? My info comes from nearly 10 years worth of Auto Actions and Motorsport News. Interviews at the time with the people involved. Maybe you should have a read.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

i think you need to get over your love for him and just come out now OK his taken. Still having trouble moving on with the Godzilla Bathurst accident?

Are you suggesting I’m gay? Because if you are that sort of comment has no relevance to this discussion, and I don’t believe it is acceptable. And let me tell you, it is a sign of your frustration if you have to resort to this type of response in what is essentially a difference of opinion on a topic. Surely you can do better than that. Well… maybe you can’t.

I am struggling to find relevance in your argument? What does the Godzilla incident have to do with anything? As I remember it was the V8 commodores that were struggling against the turbo Sierras and Skylines. So exactly what is your point here?

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You still don't know much about the pulveriser so don't talk about it, What happen with them wasn't good but what happen to the pulveriser?.

According to Brock himself they shelved the concept, but I have heard of some VL Brock Commodores being fitted with them. Oh and I will talk about whatever I like. You think I am going to be quiet on the topic because you say so. You are nothing to me, and your opinion and permission to speak on any subject is worthless to me.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

And do you think a team needs 2 drivers to test a car? For all you know Mr squiggles they were testing new engines or suspension parts like they really need 2 drivers or any of them for that matter.

Are you suggesting that it is common practice for a V8Supercar team to install a new suspension set-up or new engine and NOT let their driver in on it? You can’t be serious? Are you actually trying to defend what happened at HRT all those years ago? And if HRT are commonly doing this, when was the last time skaife was left out of a test day? It would un-professional and in-considerate for a Team to expect a driver to just get in on race day, without any idea of the changes made and expect them to circulate with any hope of winning
The reason teams will test with both drivers is because each driver sets their car up differently. In case you weren’t aware of this fact.

this whole Mr Squiggles comment shows you up as immature, and again the relevance is lacking.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

LP and PB had a touch of a falling out most don't know about, LP was looking to move on if they both got the **** with Holden they both would have been at Ford the next year,

Well PB drove a BMW in 1988 and in 1989/90 a Ford Sierra. I find it interesting that you ask me where my spy equipment is, but then seem to know a lot of things “most don’t know about” Maybe you have the spy equipment?

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

But LP was looking at going his own way. He was starting too get the **** with doing most of the work for no praise reward nothing too do with the pulveriser.

But I thought you were defending Holden’s treatment of its drivers? Now you are saying that Perkins left because he did not get the recognition that he deserved and was not praised for his efforts or the work he did. Are you saying this treatment came from the factory, where he was involved in? I will have to add that to the list of holden drivers that have been given the shaft!

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

And don't worry about Murphy he was brought back to the factory.

I did not realise that SCAR was part of HRT/TOLL organisation. I hope they aren’t because that would make them in breech of the rules. No hang on, they have done that before. When did this occur?

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Ford a family that looks after there loyal drievrs? Don't say that too the Rat.
Even herd Ambrose moan about other ford drivers all year when he was trying too win the championship for the first time. No-one would back him up great family support. Win it and they back you up alright;).

The Rat tried to stay with Ford but when the options for drives with them dried up, he went to TKR. It was his decision to change to TKR. Glenn Seton was faced with the same problem last year, but remained loyal to Ford, and was given a contract to drive the SBR corporate ride car.
In regard to MA, I presume the moaning you are speaking of occurred at the end of the season, and he complained because Seton would not let him pass during a race for track position. Ambrose argued that he was trying to win a championship for Ford and that Glenn should have moved out of the way. Seton later said that if MA was racing at the last round for the championship, then he would have let him pass.

It was good to read your ramblings and senseless responses. I suggest that you get an arguement that has some relevance to the topic, stop making personal slurs when you are frustrated by your inabilities and research what you are blabbing about.

BTW, Have a nice day.

[Full Spectrum]

[QUOTE=Envi XR8]Well I stand corrected then, refresh my memory? Which round of the Supercar championship did this occur to you? Which race did you start in 3rd gear? Which car were you racing? Or does your VP have a triple plate 7” racing clutch and 6 speed Hollinger in it?? How many laps did you loose while your mechanics fixed it in the pits? Cause you would be a household name and a magician to come back from a destroyed clutch to stand a chance of winning the race. [\quote]
Round 1 didn't you see me ? Had the T5 VP commodore at the back of the grid. But i don't recall clamming too driving in the S/C series, You did;).

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

I consider any V8Supercar that has major clutch slip getting off the start line and all the way to 5th gear at 10am the morning of Bathurst has a terminal problem and will not see out the race. The only time when something remotely close to this happened (and it was not a clutch) occurred was in 1995 when Larry Perkins had to pit on the first lap to replace a punctured tyre after a clash with Lowndes, and Perkins came from last to first the win after Glenn Seton’s car expired 9 laps from the finish.

Well we will never know what would have happen to the car will we, Still doesn't change the fact that a slipping clutch could only could with a huge chance of not happening fix itself. Weirder things have happen.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

There are only 3 teams that field one car. TKR, Autobarn Racing and PCR. 3 teams out of 17 are hardly what anyone would classify as “most” as you put it. Besides, these teams are Level 2 teams, and do not have the contractual commitments that the Level 1 teams have, in relation to always fielding 2 cars per meeting. Seems you don’t have all the facts here.

Quote me but quote me right, I was talking teams that field equal drivers as in no number 1 driver.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

The question is do you know? You were knowledgeable enough to make the following remark in a previous post.

Getting fed up with coming seconds to skaife maybe?.
Not liking the 2nd driver tag things like this can be believed with a full picture.

Are you now suggesting that you were merely speculating and that your statements are not based in fact? Par for the course it seems.

The question is do you need to answer a question with a question?.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Yeah thanks for that, I was really looking for your permission to have my own opinion on skaife, and I will say what I want. In regard to picking on you, if you can’t take the responses infant, don’t play with the adults. I said previously that I have never rated him a great driver and never will. Nothing you say will change my mind on that. You have to learn to accept that some people do not think skaife is all you believe him to be, and some like myself, think he is even less.

Don't recall telling you that you needed my opinion on skaife?. You don't need to like him but you should atleast respect him, Alot of people don't like him but they respect him and what he has done and does on the track.
Infant? isn't calling someone a infant the sign of one?

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Yes we do actually and send a big cheery thank you the Head of holden Motorsport at the time, for suggesting to Fred Gibson to contact Craig Lowndes about driving one of his crummydores in the 2001 season and in the process, lost Lowndes and Gibson to us. Remember too that the Green Eyed Monster was a 2.5 year old Ex-SBR Chassis. That car did not even have a Perkins bar in it when they first got it.

Got him places Holden wanting him too stay on board? Real shafting there seems like someone else got shafted.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Look who’s talking? My info comes from nearly 10 years worth of Auto Actions and Motorsport News. Interviews at the time with the people involved. Maybe you should have a read.

Books are a good source on info but still it's words that don't fully 100% represent what was first said.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Are you suggesting I’m gay? Because if you are that sort of comment has no relevance to this discussion, and I don’t believe it is acceptable. And let me tell you, it is a sign of your frustration if you have to resort to this type of response in what is essentially a difference of opinion on a topic. Surely you can do better than that. Well… maybe you can’t.

Where you suggesting that i was?. Now your doctor Phil amazing what you can pick up from text.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

I am struggling to find relevance in your argument? What does the Godzilla incident have to do with anything? As I remember it was the V8 commodores that were struggling against the turbo Sierras and Skylines. So exactly what is your point here?

It's clear your frustration towards skiafe is based on more previous incidents and not as such current ones.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

According to Brock himself they shelved the concept, but I have heard of some VL Brock Commodores being fitted with them. Oh and I will talk about whatever I like. You think I am going to be quiet on the topic because you say so. You are nothing to me, and your opinion and permission to speak on any subject is worthless to me.

Talk about what you want I'm not stopping you go ahead, Again you think I'm telling you too stop talking have i told you too stop talking? Why is it you feel I'm trying too let you have permission here?.
I in-fact know someone who had the pulveriser and removed it. Many never made it too the streets some sneak out.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Are you suggesting that it is common practice for a V8Supercar team to install a new suspension set-up or new engine and NOT let their driver in on it? You can’t be serious? Are you actually trying to defend what happened at HRT all those years ago? And if HRT are commonly doing this, when was the last time skaife was left out of a test day? It would un-professional and in-considerate for a Team to expect a driver to just get in on race day, without any idea of the changes made and expect them to circulate with any hope of winning
The reason teams will test with both drivers is because each driver sets their car up differently. In case you weren’t aware of this fact.

I have seen test days where only one driver has been used yes. Why does he need too go testing or developing on that day when he went the next day?. If it was the test too a upcoming race and they left him out of it and then expected him too race in 3 days in a untested car then yes that would not be common practice in a level 1 team.
Unless your Ingall in MA's last year where they shared most of the data on the one car.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

this whole Mr Squiggles comment shows you up as immature, and again the relevance is lacking.

Sorry if you missed it when you were younger is was good.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Well PB drove a BMW in 1988 and in 1989/90 a Ford Sierra. I find it interesting that you ask me where my spy equipment is, but then seem to know a lot of things “most don’t know about” Maybe you have the spy equipment?

Other always have the equipment around.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

But I thought you were defending Holden’s treatment of its drivers? Now you are saying that Perkins left because he did not get the recognition that he deserved and was not praised for his efforts or the work he did. Are you saying this treatment came from the factory, where he was involved in? I will have to add that to the list of holden drivers that have been given the shaft!

This one isn't as straight forward as anything else. And I'm sure LP even if he doesn't Read these threads wouldn't like too see something come up on this subject. All you need too know is my mother worked for the Herald sun many years ago and it wasn't a rumour it was fact then, The split wasn't with holden at that time.


I

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

did not realise that SCAR was part of HRT/TOLL organisation. I hope they aren’t because that would make them in breech of the rules. No hang on, they have done that before. When did this occur?

Come now you know they are all one, They just don't show it but everyone knows they are. They might have different names on the doors with different owners, But they share plenty right now.
But i would like too ask you this, IF you have a former touring car champion in Skaife and a up and coming driver Murphy and a former champion in Lowndes coming back with only 2 seats too offer. You got 3 drivers and one must go. You got lowndes S/C champion Skaife S/C champion Murphy up and coming who do you choose too drive next year? Biased aside what do you do?.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

The Rat tried to stay with Ford but when the options for drives with them dried up, he went to TKR. It was his decision to change to TKR. Glenn Seton was faced with the same problem last year, but remained loyal to Ford, and was given a contract to drive the SBR corporate ride car.
In regard to MA, I presume the moaning you are speaking of occurred at the end of the season, and he complained because Seton would not let him pass during a race for track position. Ambrose argued that he was trying to win a championship for Ford and that Glenn should have moved out of the way. Seton later said that if MA was racing at the last round for the championship, then he would have let him pass.

Rat would have giving anything too stay with ford and his option too go to holden was signed for him, Drive holden or go home. For a man that was and might still be very loyal too ford it's sad, And i know many a ford fan didn't like it as they seen him very loyal. But just about all wished him the best and thought it might give him a boost again.
But with MA this was in his first season and he was very open about it. Now thats not the problem but he became very nasty late in his last year. And rumour going was the drivers would line up there cars too send him overseas. Now that was a joke but how many meant it?.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

It was good to read your ramblings and senseless responses. I suggest that you get an arguement that has some relevance to the topic, stop making personal slurs when you are frustrated by your inabilities and research what you are blabbing about.

BTW, Have a nice day.

Slurs classic love it.
I suggest you pay more attention too what is said before you jump on everything, I have the ability too see and read and except, I also have the ability too admit too being wrong and open and show it. You have not got these quality's they hide behind your hatred for a man you can't even acknowledge as a good driver. And that clouds your opinion.

[Boss 290]

you guys whinge too much...yeh skaife has done alot but the stuff he has done was when ford wernt giving much of a competion...now with the ba being the most succesful touring car in australia, look at what they have done and skaife has not won a chamiopship for a while. in recent years lowndes has been the better driver. i wouldnt be surprised if craig lowndes surpases him as won of the all time greats. he is still very young. ford has shown in recent years that it cares about its drivers more then holden do....the sbr team let cortney and ingall have a go at each other, many other teams especially sbr would either let ingall go ahead or stress that he must not take over courtney depending on the championship. but they were curtious enough to let the drivers drive their best and match each other....anyway get over skaife he is old new now and cracks too easy. no other driver would have held of kelly like lowndes did.

[Bossxr8]

No need to argue about Skaife, he's a has-been who constantly cracks under the pressure. His days are numbered. He'll end up just making up the numbers like PB and DJ did in their later years, just like Bowe seems to be doing now. Seems to happen quite a lot when drivers go past a certain age, they can't be on top of the game forever.

[Full Spectrum]

B-1 B-2 I'll think of you guys in time, But tell me will you both be man enough to admit being wrong?

[yift]

at the end of the day if anyone is racing in a category like v8 supercars then they are good drivers. i would love to see alot of these know it alls and heros in the forums not just aff but all the other ones that say this driver is crap and that driver is crap do 5 laps of bathurst or sandown or any other track in one of those cars and see what lap times they get and how ****** they are after the stint! skaif is a good driver like all the other drivers in the field, they are all better than us at the end of the day! as much as i hate his attitude he can drive a car!

[LeadFoot81]

No one here is saying theyre better than Skaife, just commenting that hes losing the plot, and there are better drivers than him in the V8s. Even the s**t kicker v8 drivers that always finish in the 20s are excellent drivers (just not excellent enough in a tough category)