Dealer tactics

[MercurySilver]

i see nothing wrong with it myself
they will tell you everything you want to hear
then it comes time to talk turkey and then it gets interesting
i wouldnt lead them up the garden path as much as you did RAPID but i certainly go in not giving anything away
i also dont tell them what i want to pay
i ask them what the best price is they can do and tell them dont ******** me as i will walk to another yard
they dont meet the price i want, so i walk, an hr later they are ringing saying they can do it for so many thousand less now
sorry chump too late
i asked for your best price over an hr ago
now youre ringing me telling me you can do better than that now ive walked out the door?
i guess the best price when we were face to face wasnt the best price and that was just lies.

if thats low morals then tuff

[Professor Farnsworth]

I've always made car salesmen sweat, it's both fun and beneficial. He gets a commission, I get a good deal. They don't take it personally if you do it right.

[Zaxx]

What^^^??

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by One Six

What^^^??

It's easy to see who has the credibility in any transaction.

Money = absolute value = buyer

Car = ? Value ? = salesman

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by RAPID_BA

It's easy to see who has the credibility in any transaction.

Money = absolute value = buyer

Car = ? Value ? = salesman

Your'e an even bigger idiot than I first thought .

[wrongwaynorris]

" Now I am rather confused as to why anyone would go to a car yard where they expected to be ripped off. "

Tell Rapid BA this please then he will NEVER set foot in a car yard ever .

[Professor Farnsworth]

i'm giving you one more warning Hulk, you are crapping this thread to its limits and heading for yet another hulk-locked thread.

MOVE ON.

[wrongwaynorris]

" When has anyone felt disappointed with the money they received for a sale? "

Plenty of times when I have sold a car at a LOSS ( yes it happens a lot ) and had a customer previously interested in it ring up wanting to buy it with margin in it
.

" Money is money, there is no question as to its value. "

And cars are cars the same as motorcycles are motorcycles and boats are boats . I know this is going to come as a massive surprise to you but there is an entire industry ( worldwide ) that values used cars , it is populated by " VALUERS " who , I concede , obviously do not have your extensive knowledge of car values as they only spend every day of their lives doing it as compared to you who buys a second hand car once in a blue moon . But none the less they largely determine the profitability and in the current economic climate the very viability of a used car department .

" So the sales guy once a price is settled can never be let down by after sales support or not getting what they thought. "

They can be hounded by imbecilic customers who have totally unrealistic expectations and outrageous post sale demands .


" But how many people have paid good money and then drove off in a lemon. Worth considerably less than it appeared? "

Ever heard of Caveat et Emptor ( Buyer beware ) All and I mean ALL the protections enshrined in law are soley for the benefit of the consumer . The consumer is more than free to have a pre purcase inspection carried out if they wish .

" So why wouldnt someone holding the commodity that is an absolute value absolutely grill the salesperson offering the commodity of questionable value? I would see it as necessary "

A " grilling " is not an issue but someone walking into a yard and acting like a total XXXXwit does NOT constitute a grilling . Funny , for all the years I've done this I and 99% of my satisfied happy customers prefer to refer to it as NEGOTIATIONS , a legitimate tactic that both sides expect and happilly engage in .

[wrongwaynorris]

" So a car yard certainly in this day and age dont have the luxury to discriminate customers when they offer an absolute value such as cash. "

I do and would in yours and people of your ilks case .

[Rodge]

At the end of the day it costs huge money to establish a modern franchised dealership, often serveral million dollars and that's before purchasing the stock.

The salesmen need to be paid, the sales manager, the Dealer principal, there's power, lease charges on the premises, admin staff e.t.c.e.t.c.

There's always been a reasonably sizeable difference between the wholesale value of a vehicle and its retail, their simply has to be otherwise the dealership couldn't exist to service one's needs.

Just because someone has $20,000 cash, (which yes has an indisputable value but so what...) has never given them the right to expect to buy a vehicle at its wholesale value, (lets' call that $15,000 for the sake of this debate).

On the other hand there's nothing to stop people engaging in a good spirited haggle, treat it like a bit of a game by all means but have respect for people's time and right to earn a fair living too), and by all means shop around within reason and if the said vehicle can be purchased after a good haggle for say $17,990 and there's a fair trade in offer, then that's good business for everyone I would have thought.

If you leave a reasonable margin in the deal there's food on the table for the salesman's kids, they have to eat too...

I probably paid a bit too much for one of my cars but they're really looking after me and have done so extremly well for nearly 6 years now...that's got to be worth something.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Rodge

If you leave a reasonable margin in the deal

The RRP is more than enough margin, but still the dealer insists on adding a $1000 car wash and ridiculously overpriced tint, paint protection and aftermarket options.

No wonder people feel like they have to haggle - the dealer will claw it all back anyway.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b0son

The RRP is more than enough margin, but still the dealer insists on adding a $1000 car wash and ridiculously overpriced tint, paint protection and aftermarket options.

No wonder people feel like they have to haggle - the dealer will claw it all back anyway.

Interesting.

So which car yard do you run?
If not a car yard, what business do you run?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by flappist

Interesting.

So which car yard do you run?
If not a car yard, what business do you run?

Fair point, the profitability of one yard vs another can vary wildly, and perhaps for some, RRP isn't enough.

I suspect it doesn't help that there is a chasm between RRP and fleet/corporate pricing. Private buyers cant help but feel ripped off when they know person X got a 10% discount just because of where they work. It gives the impression of VERY flexible margins.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b0son

Fair point, the profitability of one yard vs another can vary wildly, and perhaps for some, RRP isn't enough.

I suspect it doesn't help that there is a chasm between RRP and fleet/corporate pricing. Private buyers cant help but feel ripped off when they know person X got a 10% discount just because of where they work. It gives the impression of VERY flexible margins.

There is also the comparison of new to used and of course, in the case of new, manufacturer promotions. There is no such thing as RRP for second hand cars.

You do also realise that is there is a 20% factory offer to, for example, giraffe herders with an ABN, that the 20% does not come off the dealers margin.

N.B. All ABN holders get about 10% discount as the GST is claimable.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by b0son

The RRP is more than enough margin, but still the dealer insists on adding a $1000 car wash and ridiculously overpriced tint, paint protection and aftermarket options.

No wonder people feel like they have to haggle - the dealer will claw it all back anyway.

Very few people are wooden ducks and don't haggle at all and its not that hard to say no to the pretty lady in the after sales department. I once actually said yes to her on some tint for my BF2 Typhoon because I wanted the tint and felt I'd got a really good deal on the car, I knew I could probably get the tint cheaper elsewhere but didn't really care, even an accountant can leave a few hundred bucks extra in the deal on the odd occasion

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Very few people are wooden ducks and don't haggle at all

Well, if the success of the FT86 is anything to go buy, that may change. The time is coming when people will be buying their cars online, foregoing the need for high margins and salespeople. I know I'd happily buy a car this way.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by b0son

Well, if the success of the FT86 is anything to go buy, that may change. The time is coming when people will be buying their cars online, foregoing the need for high margins and salespeople. I know I'd happily buy a car this way.

Must admitt the collaboration between Subaru and Toyota in this way with the resulting efficiencies in terms of amortising R&D over a far greater volume of vehicles, with the resulting price efficiencies is quite interesting.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Rodge

At the end of the day it costs huge money to establish a modern franchised dealership, often serveral million dollars and that's before purchasing the stock.

The salesmen need to be paid, the sales manager, the Dealer principal, there's power, lease charges on the premises, admin staff e.t.c.e.t.c.

There's always been a reasonably sizeable difference between the wholesale value of a vehicle and its retail, their simply has to be otherwise the dealership couldn't exist to service one's needs.

I agree that's the reality of the situation. All businesses exist to make a profit.

Which leads me onto a tangent: why do we need car dealers at all? Why can't we simply buy direct from the manufacturer? That would undoubtedly save us a lot of cash.

[Silver Ghia]

My beef here is with dealer servicing (wifes VW Polo) regarding the prices charged. After finding quotes for the service (approx 50% more for a normal service (around $500 was the cheapest) than for the Falcon), and drop the car in in the morning, a phone call about 1 hour into the service:

1. Mechanics say it needs a decarb service, $185. Well the car has only done 35,000km and runs like a swiss watch, plus we only use premium fuel and give it reasonably lengthy runs frequently. So No thanks. May be useful in some cases, but decarb services seem to have replaced the fuel injector service as the rort on offer.

2. The wipers need replacing, $132. Funny, I only replaced them about 6 months ago. So again no thanks.

VW's are attractively priced these days. But customers can look forward to the high servicing costs especially at 7 years when the timing belt and water pump gets changed (approx $1500 or more).

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

My beef here is with dealer servicing (wifes VW Polo) regarding the prices charged. After finding quotes for the service (approx 50% more for a normal service (around $500 was the cheapest) than for the Falcon), and drop the car in in the morning, a phone call about 1 hour into the service:

1. Mechanics say it needs a decarb service, $185. Well the car has only done 35,000km and runs like a swiss watch, plus we only use premium fuel and give it reasonably lengthy runs frequently. So No thanks. May be useful in some cases, but decarb services seem to have replaced the fuel injector service as the rort on offer.

2. The wipers need replacing, $132. Funny, I only replaced them about 6 months ago. So again no thanks.

VW's are attractively priced these days. But customers can look forward to the high servicing costs especially at 7 years when the timing belt and water pump gets changed (approx $1500 or more).

Happens very often. The trick is that you need to be on the ball with what your car exactly needs and always be prepared to say no to 'extras'.

And if you are not on the ball - get the stuff that apparently needs attention (mostly brakes and tyres) looked at by a second workshop.

After 7 years, at least you don't need to stress about factory warranty, ie you have the freedom to shop around.

I know when I did the timing belt on the Festiva I got proces from $390 to $1100.

Buying low and getting customers with follow up sales is nothing new either... Have you ever wondered why a colour printer can be bought for $39, yet the ink cartridges are, well also $39???

[Rodge]

Yeah I had the your wiper blades need replacing call too and it was $137 + GST for my Merc but they were nearly 6 years old and I happen to know the dealership pays a $70,000 a month lease on the state of the art $12 million dollar service facility which includes an enormous customer lounge that's kitted out like the lobby in a 5 star hotel so that makes the pain a bit easier to bear ...not trying to defend dealers who try and upsell you stuff you don't need but just adding a different perspective based on very recent experience...

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeah I had the your wiper blades need replacing call too and it was $137 + GST for my Merc but they were nearly 6 years old and I happen to know the dealership pays a $70,000 a month lease on the state of the art $12 million dollar service facility which includes an enormous customer lounge that's kitted out like the lobby in a 5 star hotel so that makes the pain a bit easier to bear ...not trying to defend dealers who try and upsell you stuff you don't need but just adding a different perspective based on very recent experience...

You could still see in the rain with 6 year old wiper blades ??!

[Rodge]

Nobody to take your trade-in, arrange finance and insurance and besides you'd miss out on seeing the pretty young sexy girl selling you the window tint and that special car polish which means you never need to clean your car again Who would service your car and arrange warranty repairs for you ?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Nobody to take your trade-in, arrange finance and insurance

I'd sell my car privately and arrange finance and insurance myself.

Originally Posted by Rodge

and besides you'd miss out on seeing the pretty young sexy girl selling you the window tint and that special car polish which means you never need to clean your car again

Originally Posted by Rodge

Who would service your car and arrange warranty repairs for you ?

Granted, there's still a use for the service department, but I just think that the sales department is a bit redundant - at least for me. The car sells itself as far as I'm concerned. If I walk in to a dealership I'll know exactly what I want. I may as well buy it online, as it were, straight from Ford if possible, to cut out the middle man making money on the sale of my car. I don't need the services of a salesman to "assist" me in making my purchasing decision, so why should I pay for a service I don't need?

I wish manufacturers would have an online store, as it were, so customers who know exactly what they want can place their order and check the options box and pay for the car online, then have it delivered to their door.

[XBROO]

I can't believe this, first I had to get used to police being human, now you're telling me dealers and carsales people are too?

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I can't believe this, first I had to get used to police being human, now you're telling me dealers and carsales people are too?

Yeap and for homework tonight you need to get your head around the fact that even, Dentists, Accountants, Real Estate Agents, Life Insurance salespeople, and yes even Politicians and Lawyers have bills to pay and kids to feed

Even Oral Surgeon's are human too, I'll keep repeating this to myself over and over again on Friday when I have to take my wife in to see one for a tricky problem with one of her teeth. Gee those guys know how to drill you a new one, and i'm not talking about in the mouth either

You could still see in the rain with 6 year old wiper blades ??!

Yeap, went through a massive storm with them and they were still working fine. German made mate. I do have some sympathy though with paying those sort of Euro prices on a Golf, doesn't quite seem right. Maybe time for him to shop around some more ?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeap, went through a massive storm with them and they were still working fine. German made mate.

Ve haff vays oft makink vor vindscreen clar........

[Rodge]

^^ In my experience there's nothing quite like the experience of selling your car privatly to give you the chance to walk in the car salesman's shoes's and find out what's its like to deal with all the tyre kickers out there.

The reality is it can take many months, often longer to sell a car privatly at a fair price and there's often a heck of a lot of tyre kickers to deal with before you get to that one genuine buyer who has the money, doesn't need finance or a trade-in and is happy to buy privatly. The VAST majority of buyers of a late model car will have a trade-in and a majority will want finance, those two things are a major impediment to selling a high / moderate value car privatly.

What you're suggesting is fine in theory, but IMO I think there will always be a substaintial percentage of the population who want the convienience of doing business with a motor vehicle dealer, besides internet car sites like www.carsales.com.au have already made the market more transparent and efficient for those that want to use the internet to hunt out a bargain. Ready comparisons between similar cars at different dealers and in different states have never been easier.

[wrongwaynorris]

And other quite valid reasons such as single women NOT wanting all unsundry knowing that they are indeed single and living alone , NOT wanting thieves casing your joint , fielding endless calls from tyre kickers , waiting in for people who never show up , handling test pilots who want nothing but to drive the car with NO intention whatsoever of ever buying it , an instant transaction on the day ( drive in with your old car drive out with the new one ) , not having to deal with someone with buyers remorse and making out things were not as described and wanting their money back , not seeing dealer drive off on an appraisal drive never to see your car ever again and I could go on and on .

[wrongwaynorris]

" Even Oral Surgeon's are human too, I'll keep repeating this to myself over and over again on Friday when I have to take my wife in to see one for a tricky problem with one of her teeth. Gee those guys know how to drill you a new one, and i'm not talking about in the mouth either "

Easy solution Rodge , tell your wife when she goes in to grab his balls , squeeze them gently and say these 10 simple words , " Now we're NOT going to hurt each other are we "