MS2 -> EF Guide (not dial up friendly)

stockstandard · 18-12-2005, 10:02 PM

Over the last couple of weeks I have been collecting parts to install a Megasquirt 2 into my EF. For those of you that havn't heard of these, they are an aftermarket ECU that come in kit form (i.e. you solder it together). This weekend I got it in so I thought i would share a bit of info and a few picks. There are a few issues that you have to deal with when installing an ECU on any car. I personally hate cutting factory looms, so i wanted to install the computer completely stand alone from the factory ecu. I did this by installing a second set of sensors in the engine bay and connecting them to the MS2. This way, the EEC is happy because it still thinks its in control and happily goes on doing things I cant be bothered setting the MS2 up to do such as switching the fuel pump on, controlling thermos, BBM switching, and sending signals to the instruments.

The other big decision is which way to go for ignition. The MS2 supports both the ford TFI dizzy set up (EA->ED and EL) as well as the EDIS 6 coil packs (EF and AU). Problem with coil packs is the actual edis module that controls the coil packs is moved inside the ECU on Australian cars, so you need a US module. While not expensive (Could get one delivered for $60 AUD), I didn’t go this way because I don’t like using parts I cant get easily. So instead I converted the EF to run dizzy.

As far as installation goes, the can be ordered from a number of websites and arrives looking something like this:

The motherboard looks like this:

After about 6 hours work you have something that looks like this:

The assembly instructions are so simple you could pretty much get the thing together half drunk. The soldering is pretty easy going, just a lot of it. Mine was assembled in one night (and I was taking my time). Next you have to move into the engine bay. I used a EA lower thermostat housing so that I could fit two sensors in. Although you can split the signal from one sensor if your clever, it can come back and cause grief later so I wanted to play it safe.

Then the dizzy has to be installed where the cam angle sensor is fitted to EF. My EF seems to run the same with or without cam sensor connected so I had no issues getting rid of it.

Next came running the loom. I put the MS2 under the passenger seat with the loom running under the center console, then down to the gearbox and up to the engine bay that way.

I then needed to start hooking up the sensors and power to the loom. For power, I have a relay connected to the battery which feeds a fuse box on the passenger side of the engine bay. This realy is switched from the HEGO's 12V power feed (which is applied to the sensors from the ECU when the key is switched to on). I made a Y cable which gets signal from the O2 and power and runs it to the loom

I fitted the second inlet air temperature sensor to the airbox lid and connected all the sensors to the loom.

Finally, the MS2's internal MAP sensor needs to be connected to a manifold vacume line. I just but a T piece in on the fuel reg and ran a 4mm line along the same path as the loom.

At this point I started the car up running of the EEC alone. I hooked the MS2 up to my laptop and started the real time display (nice collection of gauges). From here I can calibrate the ECT, IAC and TPS sensors, and get a feel for what the EEC is doing with AFR to give me an idea where to start tuning. Next, I unplugged the injectors from the EEC and plugged the MS2 loom up. Turned the key, it cranked for 3 or so seconds and fired up. Idle was a little rough, but after playing with the settings for 2 min the idle was smoother than the EEC with chiptorque!

The next stage in tuning is getting the volumetric efficiency (VE) table. This is the table that the MS2 uses for fueling so it is very important. I used the tools that come with the software to come up with a safe tune. This table was good enough to drive around, but it wasn’t smooth (fair bit of bucking and popping out the exhaust). I used EGO correction to fix the AFR, but since this is based of feedback from sensors things have to go wrong before it can fix them so it still is pretty crap. Today was the first chance I got to do some tuning. This is definitely a 2 person job. The MS2 can be tuned in real time, so I drove the car while Grant (EDXR8) trimmed the table to fix up the VE values. It is a simple process, drive at say 60kph and look at the EGO correction factorm, then trim the table until the correction factor is 0. Using this method I got the lower parts of the table filled out and driving is heaps better. There is an auto tune feature that will do this for you but I wanted to get a feel for tuning process so did it myself. The EEC is still controlling spark, but that will change as soon as I get a chance to swap the spark leads over (PITA job).

So far the MS2 is getting the big thumbs up from me. It has been a time consuming process as far as aftermarket ECU's go (about 3 days worth of work in it), but the $ savings are well worth it.

Ill get some screenshots of the tuning and datalogging software next time im out with a laptop.

stockstandard · 18-12-2005, 10:43 PM

Some links to screen shots

The main display: http://users.on.net/~jasiunas/stockstandard/MS2/dials.jpg

Realtime sensor readings:

Messing with VE tables:

18-12-2005, 10:44 PM

unreal mate, well done!

18-12-2005, 10:45 PM

can i just ask what it is comparable to? like, is it a complete aftermarket ECU? could you run a turbo setup with it or something similar?

stockstandard · 18-12-2005, 10:53 PM

It is a complete aftermarket ECU. Does spark and fuel. It will do boosted engines no problem, it even comes with 2.5bar map sensor which is good for over 20lb of boost. If thats not enough you can fit bigger ones.

Hard to say what it is comparable to. It has relatively small tuning table size compared to many other ecu's (same as base model aftermarket ecu's), but so far I cant see that I would ever want more tuning points than what it has. It does have heaps of supporting software, realtime tuning and datalogging, good after purchase support through forums, its all open source so if you know your way around a programming language you can write your own functionality in.

Looking through the success stories in the MS forums youll see it fitted from everything from 5hp 2-stroke lawn mower engines to supercharged 4.6L mustangs.

18-12-2005, 11:27 PM

I don't think I could ever attempt the soldering thing!

I tried making a jaycar kit one time, just a small voltage limiter for the CPU Fan, and i almost killed myself, literally! My soldering was crap and i think i bridged a negative and positive somewhere.. But full points to you mate, awesome work!

Are there different types of this thing? Such as base model, mid range, and high end kits? Or are they all the same kit, with the same software?

I suppose it's good the software being open source, because it means you can legally download new add-on's supplied by the community of users itself..

Sounds like something i might consider in the future!

vegabass · 18-12-2005, 11:55 PM

How much are these units if you dont mind me asking?

stockstandard · 19-12-2005, 12:04 AM

The computer kits itself is $250 US, $3 extra for a mod to use the Ford IAC (just a bigger transistor) and $65 for the loom if you dont want to make your own.

MS1's are about half the price but are fuel only

I ordered mine from here : http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...bled-p-59.html

Apart from the cost of the unit, I got an ED loom for $22 that was cut up for plugs. Thermostat housing, sensors, etc came to about $20 odd more. Prob $20 for other stuff loke solder, wire, tape, hose.

FPVWEPN · 19-12-2005, 01:13 AM

that is just absolutely nuts most impressive thing ive seen this year and were in december hats off to you

stockstandard · 19-12-2005, 02:35 AM

hmm, so many toys to play with now. Just installed the datalog viewing software. I only took one short datalog of a trip down the street and back under very light throttle when I first installed it (virtually untuned VE table). Values are horrible (cant believe it was even running!), but the amount of data that is logged is very impressive. This is going to come in handy.

Hopefully ill get out tonight and see how yesterdays tuning went. With the datalogging I can slowly start to tune higher rpm and load's that just light throttle and cruise.

NZ · 19-12-2005, 10:19 AM

The cam angle sensor you talk about is called a sequencer. All the eec uses it for is to work out which bank of injectors to fire first when the car starts. After one revolution it knows where the engine is at from the crank angle sensor

stockstandard · 19-12-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakai

Wow that is very busy, I hope you know what it all means.

There is way more information than you need there. All you need to look at in the early stages of tuning are the RPM, MAP, and O2 graphs. From the RPM and MAP values you can find the point in the VE graph that the MS2 used to calculate the amount of fuel to squirt in, and from the O2 graph you can see if that is too much or little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ

The cam angle sensor you talk about is called a sequencer. All the eec uses it for is to work out which bank of injectors to fire first when the car starts. After one revolution it knows where the engine is at from the crank angle sensor

The EEC can work out where the engine is from the crank angle sensor but not what stroke the engine is on (Cam angle sensor sends a signal when 1 is near TDC on compression stroke). This isnt an issue for spark because the coilpacks fire on both compression and exhaust stroke, but without the sequencer the EEC takes a guess for the injectors. My understanding is that worst case is the EEC guessses wrong, the injectors fire at the wrong time, idle gets a little rougher and fuel economy at cruise would go down.

This isnt really a big deal though. It causes the EEC to throw some error codes but it doesnt go into limp home mode. As long as the EEC doesnt go there im happy.

Walkinshaw · 19-12-2005, 03:58 PM

Looks as if you have it all worked out. Have you put the WB02 in there yet? Or is that going to be reserved for final tuning and developing lean cruise/WOT maps??

stockstandard · 19-12-2005, 07:57 PM

No wb yet. The narrowband is making me scratch my head a little more but im confident I can get a reasonable tune using it. WBO2 would be SOOOO nice though. For now I just have to take my time, play it safe and fight the temptation to move too quickly through the maps.

My VE map is starting to look like a proper VE map now. Drivability is getting really good. I only have problems during gear changes (occasional cough) but this will be fixed up once I get some acceleration enrichment values (ive 0'ed them all while tuning the VE maps). Fuel consumption isnt great but it is still running very slightly rich at cruise. Ill fix that up in time.

4.9 EF Futura · 19-12-2005, 08:12 PM

That is absolutely brilliant. Megasquirt has always fascinated me and i've pretty much downloaded and read everything written on it. It has some really impressive features (i.e. target AFR tuning with the WB02).

So that looks like the original megasquirt with the megasquirt-n-spark e setup on it?

Congratulations for such an efficient install. Would love to see it in action next time we are out and about.

Lol - how long before grant ditches tweecer and sets up MS ?!?!

EDXR8 · 19-12-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Lol - how long before grant ditches tweecer and sets up MS ?!?!

Hehe I thought about it while we were realtime tuning the MS yesterday, it is a nice unit with some good features, but I'll keep the tweecer for now (slowly getting use to it and starting to get some half decent results now).

stockstandard · 19-12-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

That is absolutely brilliant. Megasquirt has always fascinated me and i've pretty much downloaded and read everything written on it. It has some really impressive features (i.e. target AFR tuning with the WB02).

So that looks like the original megasquirt with the megasquirt-n-spark e setup on it?

Yep, its the MS2 daughter board on a MS1 version 3.0 mainboard. Ive had been reading heaps into it as well, but it seemed like alot to take on when I have no previous experience in tuning. As you know there are literally 1000's of pages on building, installing, tuning and trouble shooting if you want to really get into it. I read most them after buying the ECU and it was a little overwhelming. When you have it all in front of you though it seems so straight forward

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Congratulations for such an efficient install. Would love to see it in action next time we are out and about.

Lol - how long before grant ditches tweecer and sets up MS ?!?!

Im happy to help out any SA guys and talk them through my install. If im lucky and a few others will take the plunge we can get a few base tunes out there and all end up with better tuned cars.

As Grant said we talked about the tweecer and MS2 tuning. The differences between how the factory ECU and the MS2 manage the engine are very interesting.

Walkinshaw · 19-12-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstandard

Im happy to help out any SA guys and talk them through my install. If im lucky and a few others will take the plunge we can get a few base tunes out there and all end up with better tuned cars.

I'll be definatly in looking at the fine tuning. The more i can help out now the easier my install will be i guess.

EA2BA · 20-12-2005, 08:33 AM

After I get my EL ECU in, I am thinking I HAVE to do this mod

Awesome job there, very inspiring.

P.S. what language is it written in ... VB?

Psycho Chicken · 20-12-2005, 05:51 PM

Will these things run a 2 cylinder? Hmmmmm I have a plan.

EDXR8 · 20-12-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakai

Although a TwEECer RT would be similar, but is the extra cost worth the easier installation. Hmmm?

For supported EEC's, and there are only a few V8 ones, the tweecer is an excellent option, installs in 5mins with all the functionality of an aftermarket system. Tweecer also maintains the seqential in injection and MAF based load sensing for the V8's.

I am quite impressed with the MSII so far, seems fairly straight forward to install and tune so far. Wideband O2 is really a must with these though, makes tuning far more easy and accurate (I think my WB will be dissapearing over the next few days and making its way into marks car).

stockstandard · 21-12-2005, 08:18 PM

Well, spark wasn’t as easy as the injectors. I spent 2 days messing around trying to get the TFI to work from the SPOUT of the MS2 but was getting no spark at all. If I removed SPOUT to put the TFI into limp home mode (fixed 10deg timing) I could start the engine but it would die as soon as the MS2 was connected to the dizzy.

Turns out I misinterpreted the TFI instructions and had left two pads open which should have been connected. With that fixed, TFI works!

Now the MS2 is in complete control of the engine. I can adjust ignition timing and AFR at different RPM and loads, and the EEC happily doing its thing and staying out of limp home mode.

Walkinshaw · 21-12-2005, 08:20 PM

AWSOME news Mark.

21-12-2005, 08:22 PM

AWESOME news Mark!

i'm very impressed you managed to get the unit controlling the whole engine!

So you could remove the EEC now and not having any drama's? or do you still need it there?

stockstandard · 21-12-2005, 08:30 PM

The EEC is needed because its in charge of the instrument cluster, fuel pump, and starter motor. The MS2 could be used to control these I suppose but it would be extra work for no gain so Ill just leave things the way they are.

Im so stoked I got all this working

21-12-2005, 08:34 PM

Dude, i'd be stoked too. I'd love full tuning capabilities in my car.

There's no need to make the MS2 work the dash, fuel pump, etc now that i think of it..

Walkinshaw · 21-12-2005, 08:37 PM

WB02 is next on the list then?

stockstandard · 21-12-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

WB02 is next on the list then?

yep, WBO2 would be the ultimate addition. I need to find a buyer for my chiptorque to fund one though.

21-12-2005, 08:40 PM

Whats a WB02?

stockstandard · 21-12-2005, 08:44 PM

Wideband O2 sensor used to measure the air fuel ratio. Almost all cars are fitted with narrowband with is almost useless for tuning. With a wideband hooked up to the MS2 you just need to fill out a target AFR table and thats what you get. With narrowband you have to do a lot of estimation and its much harder to get a decent tune.