Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon? - Page 11

Nic85 · 15-01-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

8k would be a cheap fix, i'm used to hearing about 10k all up. Half the value of the car. It must be made of unobtanium.

He explained to me that they would cover I think $3k? Then I'm out of pocket for the rest.

It was just funny that his example of the warranty to me was the DSG - My first thought was, "I wonder how many times this has happened for the guy to use this as an example?"

jpd80 · 15-01-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Sorry, I know we're way off topic now, I just thought this was interesting.

When I was looking at a new car last year, I did drive a Golf GTi and really liked it. I almost bought one. When I sat down with the "Warranty guy" he was explaining the VW warranty to me, then told me about the extended warranty that the dealer does, but it's through VW. His explanation to me was, "Say for example your DSG gearbox blows up and it costs $8k to fix it..." I thought, I'm outta here.

When he should have said is
"before your DSG box blows up, get an extended warranty or keep trading up with us.."

Avoid the sorrow, go over to Ford and buy a nice Falcon Ecoboost with dependable ZF 6HP tranny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

He explained to me that they would cover I think $3k? Then I'm out of pocket for the rest.

It was just funny that his example of the warranty to me was the DSG - My first thought was, "I wonder how many times this has happened for the guy to use this as an example?"

Enough times to know that there's money to be made whatever happens?
If any buyer is still sitting there after that speech, they will be like a rabbit caught in headlights...
I am very careful of "Warranties" one sniff of possible abuse and they wipe you quick smart, seen it happen.

b0son · 15-01-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Avoid the sorrow, go over to Ford and buy a nice Falcon Ecoboost with dependable ZF 6HP tranny

I've heard of ZF's failing more often than DSG's ... oil cooler mixing oil with coolant already forgotten?

b0son · 15-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

8k would be a cheap fix, i'm used to hearing about 10k all up.

Try $2k ... the most common failure is the mechotron. The box itself is very reliable.

FPV8U · 15-01-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

I've heard of ZF's failing more often than DSG's ... oil cooler mixing oil with coolant already forgotten?

Thats the 4 spd mate.

gtxb67 · 15-01-2012, 03:22 PM

one of the big reasons i think, is the amount of negative comments here. i know someone who fortunately is a ford fan, but we were talking about his electric windows and he told me he read the thread on this forum. he needed help and decided to look here. how many people looking for advice on how good the new falcon is looks on here and decides almost immediately that they do not need a ford
if ford's fans don't like ford, what hope do they have

b0son · 15-01-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Thats the 4 spd mate.

Happened to the two of the three mates that had Fords... both 6spds.

Buntz · 15-01-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Happened to the two of the three mates that had Fords... both 6spds.

Both 6spd but where they ZF's?

Not really the transmissions fault. More the coolant lines fault.

b0son · 15-01-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Both 6spd but where they ZF's?

Yes. One had a few kms on it, the other was almost new.

Quote:

Not really the transmissions fault. More the coolant lines fault.

Does it matter? If it had been out of warranty, it would have been quite a few thousand $$$ replacement cost.

jpd80 · 15-01-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Happened to the two of the three mates that had Fords... both 6spds.

Sounds like a very unfortunate problem due to supplier quality, Ford need to be vigilant about small problems ruining reputations.

I'm glad it was covered under warranty, were they repaired to your mates' satisfaction?

Buntz · 15-01-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Does it matter? If it had been out of warranty, it would have been quite a few thousand $$$ replacement cost.

For one it's not an inherent fault with the Transmission itself. And secondly, a few thousand for a quality ZF box. Reasonable.

All I can say is... self contained transmission oil cooler. Not really an option... but a necessity.

turbodewd · 15-01-2012, 04:33 PM

The question starting the thread is wrong.

Just because the falcon is selling 9th for 2011 doesnt mean its dead. Its damn popular! Any car cracking the top 10 is popular! The large car segment isnt dead, its just smaller due to:

* rising Aussie dollar making imports cheaper
* tariff barriers on imported cars have dropped over the decades
* massive segmentation of the car market - so many types and so many producers

Now you must also consider Falcon and territory sales in the same breath because they are the same platorm. Falcon + territory sales are pretty good. Some buyers who want an SUV now have an Aussie Ford option - the Terri!

The Falcon just wont get huge money thrown at it for updates. Would have love to see an alloy block 4.0L and maybe drop the capacity to 3.9L or 3.8L (if thats possible).

I will gladly buy 3rd XR6 Turbo next year when my lease runs out. The FG has been great to me. :^)

b0son · 15-01-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm glad it was covered under warranty, were they repaired to your mates' satisfaction?

Yes. The tranny with the kms was covered by extended warranty, luckily...

b0son · 15-01-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

For one it's not an inherent fault with the Transmission itself.

More than a few are worried it is...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11347414
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11347616

Quote:

And secondly, a few thousand for a quality ZF box. Reasonable.

While a few thousand for a quality DSG box is not?

Buntz · 15-01-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

The Falcon just wont get huge money thrown at it for updates. Would have love to see an alloy block 4.0L and maybe drop the capacity to 3.9L or 3.8L (if thats possible).

Fat chance. Although if a 2014 model refresh is to be launched then the I6 will have to meet Euro V as it's after November 1st 2013. So that will mean some money thrown at it.

Buntz · 15-01-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

More than a few are worried it is...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11347414
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11347616

And if you'd read both those threads you quoted... you'll have seen that the transmission oil coolant lines cracking is the underlying problem. Coolant in your transmission fluid equals major problem... no matter what transmission type you have. The oil coolant type is a Ford problem for even choosing to go that route. Or not using higher metallurgical grade lines to operate in high temperatures. Solution is as I said before.... get the self contained trans oil cooler.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...1&postcount=13

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

While a few thousand for a quality DSG box is not?

I think you'll find it's a lot more for a DSG box... and it varies by manufacturer. Check previous posts in this thread.

prydey · 15-01-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

The question starting the thread is wrong.

Just because the falcon is selling 9th for 2011 doesnt mean its dead. Its damn popular! Any car cracking the top 10 is popular!

absolutely!!

in another thread it was mentioned there are 62 models on sale in australia. in america there are 32. choice is hurting sales.

b0son · 15-01-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

And if you'd read both those threads you quoted... you'll have seen that the transmission oil coolant lines cracking is the underlying problem.

I'm not disputing that. But at the end of the day, all that matters is the end result - a dead transmission and a big repair bill.

Quote:

I think you'll find it's a lot more for a DSG box... and it varies by manufacturer. Check previous posts in this thread.

IF you were replacing the box, yes, it would be more - its better tech, and you pay for that. But as I've already pointed, its generally not the box that fails, its the mechatronics unit, and the repair bill for that is considerably lower.

Point is, its foolish to lambast the DSG for being supposedly so unreliable while singing the praises of a box that by many accounts is no better.

Buntz · 15-01-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

I'm not disputing that. But at the end of the day, all that matters is the end result - a dead transmission and a big repair bill.

Yeeaaahhhh..... So basically any new car, with any transmission in the world then? How is that problem solely attributed to the ZF transmission in the Falcon though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

IF you were replacing the box, yes, it would be more - its better tech, and you pay for that. But as I've already pointed, its generally not the box that fails, its the mechatronics unit, and the repair bill for that is considerably lower.

Point is, its foolish to lambast the DSG for being supposedly so unreliable while singing the praises of a box that by many accounts is no better.

Well in those cases the box did need replacing, and it was far cheaper than replacing a DSG... and it wasn't a fault with the transmission in the first place.

Your argument is void.

geckoGT · 15-01-2012, 05:23 PM

Lets leave the technical discussion of transmissions alone now, you both have your point of view out there but it is starting to detract from the actual topic.

atec77 · 15-01-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

The Mazda 6 tops the list as the most sold vehicle in the country. The Holden Commodore comes in at number 2. While our very own Ford Falcon drops to 9th place overall for 2011.

Whats going on?

With the Mazda 6 taking the honors, it suggests what a lot of us will deny - that Australian consumers are moving towards small sedans with 4 Cylinders while remaining practical.

The 2nd placing for the Commodore tells us, there's still hope for the big 6 cylinder sedan in today's world. Could the green marketing push behind the SIDI engine have inspired some to stick to a larger car?

Personally I find the newer Foulcans lardloaddin and to big , I dirve a medium sized Euro over ten years old with mods , if I could buy a foulcan which did as much as economically I would consider it but at more than 500kg heavier than the origional falcon I say time for some diet and shrinkage , a rwd Modeo almost fills the bill

**buggerlugs** · 15-01-2012, 05:43 PM

Speaking to my next door neighbour who is a rep. He is on to his fourth XR6 Falcon. This is a 2 year old car with 118,000ks. Other than servicing, they have not had to put a spanner on his car. He said it's been the best of his Falcon's by a country mile. BUT.........it is going to be his last Falcon as they are switching to Turbo Diesel Territory's. They have 2 already and love the fuel economy on them.....

prydey · 15-01-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

if I could buy a foulcan which did as much as economically I would consider it

ecoLPi

martyk54 · 15-01-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Personally I find the newer Foulcans lardloaddin and to big , I dirve a medium sized Euro over ten years old with mods , if I could buy a foulcan which did as much as economically I would consider it but at more than 500kg heavier than the origional falcon I say time for some diet and shrinkage , a rwd Modeo almost fills the bill

As far as I know Mondeo is just as wide as Falcon and only slightly shorter, so hardly noticeable on the road. When Ecoboost comes out in Falcon it'll be more powerful than Mondeo and might use half a litre more of fuel... The EcoLPI is already more economical and literally blows the Mondeo off the road performance wise. I'll have the Falcon any day thanks.

turbodewd · 15-01-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atec77

Personally I find the newer Foulcans lardloaddin and to big , I dirve a medium sized Euro over ten years old with mods , if I could buy a foulcan which did as much as economically I would consider it but at more than 500kg heavier than the origional falcon I say time for some diet and shrinkage , a rwd Modeo almost fills the bill

Atec, if you look across the car industry at cars theyre all heavier due to more equipment, eg 4WD systems, ABS, airbags, electronics gears, big screen SATNAV/stereos.

Despite all this new cars are quicker and more economical than those from 10 or 20 yrs ago.

Your '500kg' is what I prefer. When I drive the Mrs mazda 3 i can feel the tinnyness and it feels less secure. Its a trade off, you cant have both. My Falcon feels super sturdy on the highway in windy storms.

Bossxr8 · 15-01-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Try $2k ... the most common failure is the mechotron. The box itself is very reliable.

For a whole new box its around 10k, and i've heard of plenty of them needing the whole new box too. If they have now just started to replace the mechotron, that still doesn't save replacing the whole box on vehicles that have issues unrelated to that part. Its not the only bit that fails.

galaxy xr8 · 15-01-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

one of the big reasons i think, is the amount of negative comments here. i know someone who fortunately is a ford fan, but we were talking about his electric windows and he told me he read the thread on this forum. he needed help and decided to look here. how many people looking for advice on how good the new falcon is looks on here and decides almost immediately that they do not need a ford
if ford's fans don't like ford, what hope do they have

Very true, people don't even have to specifically search or come to AFF, all they need to do is do a google search on Falcon/Ford drama's if they are researching their future purchase and bingo, the main listing's are thread's on here, very sad really isn't it that we are hurting our own best interests with possible future sales.

jpd80 · 15-01-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

For a whole new box its around 10k, and i've heard of plenty of them needing the whole new box too. If they have now just started to replace the mechotron, that still doesn't save replacing the whole box on vehicles that have issues unrelated to that part. Its not the only bit that fails.

Just looked up on fordparts.com, a new 6R80 transmission for the new 5.0 V8 is $5,118.76 plus tax.
I's a good ball park figure since this is basically a copy of the ZF6HP gearbox built under license...

prydey · 15-01-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Very true, people don't even have to specifically search or come to AFF, all they need to do is do a google search on Falcon/Ford drama's if they are researching their future purchase and bingo, the main listing's are thread's on here, very sad really isn't it that we are hurting our own best interests with possible future sales.

what is more annoying to me is i see a certain few members who only seem to comment in threads that are negative to ford, and their comments are always sticking the boots in. i'm sure others have noticed similar things.

the other thing i find is, some people think that AFF is a reasonable cross section of ford/falcon owners/buyers and if 2 people have the same issue, suddenly its a 'common problem' and ford are crap for not issuing a recall etc etc.

Falc'man · 15-01-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

what is more annoying to me is i see a certain few members who only seem to comment in threads that are negative to ford, and their comments are always sticking the boots in. i'm sure others have noticed similar things.

the other thing i find is, some people think that AFF is a reasonable cross section of ford/falcon owners/buyers and if 2 people have the same issue, suddenly its a 'common problem' and ford are crap for not issuing a recall etc etc.

Yep. And I'm automatically a wogan all of a sudden, only because AFF says so.