Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

There must be alot of dumb people out there to pay that coin!!


Is there anyone on here that has paid 42K for a FG XR6 (I or II) ???

Probably not on here but FG II was in dealerships in December, cars were ordered
then and no discounts applied to FG II XR6 at launch, so yes chances are good that
some buyers paid full price...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Boza

Mate I have owned a lot of fords and no offence the honda wins hands down for build quality over my ba my uncle has a bf mk3 wagon and lets just say that there were plenty of warranty issues in regards to trims falling of and plastics failing and things like that

I know a guy with 3 bf mk3 wagons as cabs and he says they are a complete heap of crap and unfortunatley he's not the only one complaning

He said if there was another dedicated gas model the size of a falcon wagon on the market he would buy it when he has to change over his fleet

Majority of Honda's cars are sourced from Thailand for our market, except for the Accord Euro, and just recently a small run of Jazz because of Thailand floods.

The amount of long motors we replaced when I was at Honda for 6 months, from brand new Civic's would have easily been into the 20-30 mark.

Every manufacturer has its issues, we've got problems with Mercedes Sprinters we work on at work, brake lights missing clips from the factory, bonnet badge 5cm higher on one car than the other, missing trims etc.

[bad moon rising]

Originally Posted by Rico 110s

No offence Buddy but that is a load of Crock!
I own a BA series II and it is tight as a drum it is a RTV with alot of off road work and it has had no services done on it before I bought it at 130000 from the schedule that had come with the vehicle when I purchased it. It would be a good idea to check on other cars stories first before picking on this particular model.
No one on here said that the Falcons are perfect but they are certainly not the worst product on the market, I think any body in Australia can certainly do a lot worse.

mate if you have had a good run with you falcon than thats good im happy for you. i know there is no such thing as the perfect car but what im saying is the build quality on the falcon could be so much better. i know this because ive been working on them every day for the last 10 years. i know i cant paint 1 particular model with the same brush and say they all wear out diff bushes within 20,000km but i have seen it more than a few times now.
if ford want to build sales than they need a better quality.
falcon irs diff bushes have been a problem since ba, they still wear out rediculously fast,so why should someone fork out $40+k for a car that had the same ongoing issues for 10years now?

[Rico 110s]

Originally Posted by bad moon rising

mate if you have had a good run with you falcon than thats good im happy for you. i know there is no such thing as the perfect car but what im saying is the build quality on the falcon could be so much better. i know this because ive been working on them every day for the last 10 years. i know i cant paint 1 particular model with the same brush and say they all wear out diff bushes within 20,000km but i have seen it more than a few times now.
if ford want to build sales than they need a better quality.
falcon irs diff bushes have been a problem since ba, they still wear out rediculously fast,so why should someone fork out $40+k for a car that had the same ongoing issues for 10years now?

I do appreciate what you say but it is all relevant, I have had a number of Falcons and been forced by life to endure others and and I maintain what ever problems I have ever had to suffer pales into obscurity to the pain I have had to suffer from the other brands. Any body on this site can say Oh yes my Kia has this go wrong or my nissan has that go wrong, at the end of the day I would prefer a car that has dodgy windows(not that I have) or a bit of a crack in my dashboard (not that I have that either) than a car that will just not go and you need a team of specialists to get it running if you know what I mean

[Unicorn347]

This was discussed at work around Christmas time and between a couple of us it was decided on price. The fruit you gain in imported cars and the quality cannot be matched by our local build. A solution would be to raise the import tax on foreign imported cars, this is one method of equalising the local market and keep Australian designed and built vehicles being built. Ford also needs to take a long hard look at what it is offering in terms of build quality. I own a Terri ghia which looks like a base model with option upgrades. Leather you sit on not sit in, no wood grain/carbon fibre what ever takes your fancy and not even a signed ghia badge, just a poxy block letter stick on. I still love it though, my other falcon is now seeing some of these things (fruit) added as upgrades. FPV suffers the same fate, compare a GTE to an M3 or Audi A6 and once again the goodies and build quality are missing. How can a company justify $40k difference in price between a G6E and a GTE? Brakes, rims, suspension and a big sucking donk does not equal $40k in my books.
We wont even go on about the GT black debarcle, that was a disgrace........

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Unicorn347

compare a GTE to an M3

so you would happily pay m3 money for a gt then?

[Bossxr8]

How can you compare a 150k car to one for 80k, and then complain that the 80k one doesn't have as much gizmos as the other.

Sheeesh.

Why doesn't a 60k 3 series have as much stuff inside as a 200k 7 series FFS, bloody BMW rip off merchants.

[markvd]

Ford are Stupid, stop there own sales LOL, they make em durable. What fails is easily fixed. IS the sales decrease due to 2 things, people with Fords know they are easy to Fix and repair and are hanging on to them, and is it that some car owners are getting rid of the liability of old Holdens and buying new ones before the economy gets too tough. Its not looking too good, unless Ford attack on quality and Durability. Maybe Ford are waiting till times are really tough to release a killer machine and then try to survive. tell you my prediction, but I dont think it will happen, the first car company that brings in standard Hydrogen Hybrid Generator Fuel , they will kill the market. Ford, listen, to the consumer not the fuel companies.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Err Mercedes has admitted that its getting harder and harder for diesels to meet emission standards and they think in 10 years time it could be uneconomically viable.

They will continue to do it for trucks, so why not transfer the tech to the car division?

Diesel is here to stay for quite a whilst in road transport.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How can you compare a 150k car to one for 80k, and then complain that the 80k one doesn't have as much gizmos as the other.

Sheeesh.

Why doesn't a 60k 3 series have as much stuff inside as a 200k 7 series FFS, bloody BMW rip off merchants.

He has a point. I'm currently doing the same between XR6/XR6T ute and GS ute... I don't want a 6 but the coyote demands 20 grand premium. I still have to option leather and floor mats ffs, in a 65 grand vehicle, same interior as the XT except maybe the start button. A 25 grand Polo has just as many features let alone a Golf/Cruze/Mazda 3. Not a lot of incentive there lol.

[FalconXR6]

If the Falcon was this, I would buy one tomorrow;

RWD
Similar size to Mazda 6, Subaru Liberty, etc
1550kg or less
BIG brakes
270kw turbo 6
Slick shifting 6 speed manual
Tight wheel, tyre and suspension package that handles awesome and gets more power down (than FG)
Nice interior with good fit and finish (see Mazda 3 MPS for good example)
Great standard features list (again, see 3 MPS for good example)
Fuel consumption hovering around 10L / 100km
$45k drive away

Instead it's an almost 1800kg super sized sedan with weedy brakes and a taxi pack interior with taxi pack handling, poor brakes and super poor power down and no matter how you dress it up - likes to drink PULP.

No offense, but I've moved away from my FG XR6T for those reasons.

Where else can you buy a mid sized (which, let's face it, is what large used to be not too long ago) rwd car with tight suspension, top brakes and killer grunt ? If Ford built a car like this I GUARANTEE it would sell it's tits off !!!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

If the Falcon was this, I would buy one tomorrow;

RWD
Similar size to Mazda 6, Subaru Liberty, etc
1550kg or less
BIG brakes
270kw turbo 6
Slick shifting 6 speed manual
Tight wheel, tyre and suspension package that handles awesome and gets more power down (than FG)
Nice interior with good fit and finish (see Mazda 3 MPS for good example)
Great standard features list (again, see 3 MPS for good example)
Fuel consumption hovering around 10L / 100km
$45k drive away

Instead it's an almost 1800kg super sized sedan with weedy brakes and a taxi pack interior with taxi pack handling, poor brakes and super poor power down and no matter how you dress it up - likes to drink PULP.

No offense, but I've moved away from my FG XR6T for those reasons.

Where else can you buy a mid sized (which, let's face it, is what large used to be not too long ago) rwd car with tight suspension, top brakes and killer grunt ? If Ford built a car like this I GUARANTEE it would sell it's tits off !!!

That the problem, people want everything for nothing. I mean i dont want a falcon but i too would buy one for that price, but it aint gonna happen

[Nic85]

About the only thing that comes sort of close to that massive wish list off the top of my head is the BMW 335i, and it starts @ $110,000.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

If the Falcon was this, I would buy one tomorrow;

RWD
Similar size to Mazda 6, Subaru Liberty, etc
1550kg or less
BIG brakes
270kw turbo 6
Slick shifting 6 speed manual
Tight wheel, tyre and suspension package that handles awesome and gets more power down (than FG)
Nice interior with good fit and finish (see Mazda 3 MPS for good example)
Great standard features list (again, see 3 MPS for good example)
Fuel consumption hovering around 10L / 100km
$45k drive away

Instead it's an almost 1800kg super sized sedan with weedy brakes and a taxi pack interior with taxi pack handling, poor brakes and super poor power down and no matter how you dress it up - likes to drink PULP.

No offense, but I've moved away from my FG XR6T for those reasons.

Where else can you buy a mid sized (which, let's face it, is what large used to be not too long ago) rwd car with tight suspension, top brakes and killer grunt ? If Ford built a car like this I GUARANTEE it would sell it's tits off !!!

How about this:
New Fusion AWD, replace firewall forward with E8 Falcon, if you were prepared to
swap our beloved I-6T for an Ecoboost V6, then I think we have a new global vehicle....

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by jpd80

How about this:
New Fusion AWD, replace firewall forward with E8 Falcon, if you were prepared to
swap our beloved I-6T for an Ecoboost V6, then I think we have a new global vehicle....

I can see it now... "But it won't tow my 5 tonne boat and fit my 14 kids in it and all the shopping and it's not RWD..."

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Rodge

My wife's Honda Civic hybrid shopping trolley is a POS in every way compared to my GT-P including interior and exterior build quality. Why she's happy with it God only knows, it was cheap to buy and its cheap to run, that's the only two redeeming features that spring to mind. People arn't buying the Falcon because small cars are more popular and lots of people are stupid enough to be obsessed with carbon emissions.

Maybe she just doesn't care as much as you would?

My missus had a Lancer, was an OK car at best but squeeked and rattled in less then 3 years. Three clutches in the first 10,000k's (apparently Mitsu admitted there was a design flaw) and the indicator stopped working as well as the electrical gremlin with the lights system. All in under 100,000k's. Now its with her sister who treats the car like crap and it sounds like it has some serious mechanical issues. It was properly serviced (going off the log book). She really wasn't fussed as she bought the car because she needed it and a BA would cost to much in insurance.

Funny enough she now has an FG and is bloody **** about the car.

[brett7777]

I guess a Mazda 3 uses less gas than a Falcon.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Maybe she just doesn't care as much as you would?

My missus had a Lancer, was an OK car at best but squeeked and rattled in less then 3 years. Three clutches in the first 10,000k's (apparently Mitsu admitted there was a design flaw) and the indicator stopped working as well as the electrical gremlin with the lights system. All in under 100,000k's. Now its with her sister who treats the car like crap and it sounds like it has some serious mechanical issues. It was properly serviced (going off the log book). She really wasn't fussed as she bought the car because she needed it and a BA would cost to much in insurance.

Funny enough she now has an FG and is bloody **** about the car.

My missus used to have a Lancer, 99 model CE 1.5L coupe. 150,000kms on it, completely trouble free. There was a squeak from the bonnet at times over small undulations, but no other interior rattles. It was lowered on King Lows with KYB shocks too so it was extremely stiff. Good mate of mine also has a 2008 CJ VRX Lancer Sportsback. He said it developed one dash rattle at around 60,000kms which the dealer fixed. It's got over 100,000kms on it now with the only problems being an electrical problem with the earth for the stereo.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nic85

I can see it now... "But it won't tow my 5 tonne boat and fit my 14 kids in it and all the shopping and it's not RWD..."

Ha ha, it is RWD though,
1) our Falcon front and engines grafted onto AWD Fusion, providing the body and IRS,
3) I see that Euro tow rating for Mondeo 2.2 diesel is 2000 kg, so with big six it should be similar to FG.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ha ha, it is RWD though,
1) our Falcon front and engines grafted onto AWD Fusion, providing the body and IRS,
3) I see that Euro tow rating for Mondeo 2.2 diesel is 2000 kg, so with big six it should be similar to FG.

I guess then the answer to the topic is; What's stopping people from buying the Falcon? Perhaps the package as a whole is dated? Big too big, bit too heavy, bit too thirsty, build quality not quite there, value for money lacking. Steps are being made to rectify most of these problems, but this is the general concensus coming from this thread.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Nic85

I guess then the answer to the topic is; What's stopping people from buying the Falcon? Perhaps the package as a whole is dated? Big too big, bit too heavy, bit too thirsty, build quality not quite there, value for money lacking. Steps are being made to rectify most of these problems, but this is the general concensus coming from this thread.

Falcon and Commodore are no longer the dominant vehicles in the market, There's a huge choice of vehicles tailored to buyers needs.
The best that Ford and Holden can hope for is to make their next gen big cars as efficient and attractive as possible,
I think it's a shame that neither explores the mid sized market more than they do, surely Malibu and Mondeo can
be offered at more attractive prices than they are, Mondeo in particular is not that much dearer than Focus to build
yet starts $8K higher... the asking price for Titanium is a bit high, in the UK it's about $8,00 dearer than base version.

If Ford were smart, they would be building next gen Fusion or Mondeo here with a starting price of around $25,000,
and a top price on Titanium at around $40,000 and see what comes back, I guarantee you they would be swamped...
The game is in the $25,000 to $45,000 range, not the $35,000 to $55,000 range.

[brett7777]

One thing you get when you do buy the Falcon is rear wheel drive, which the Mondeo & Mazda definitely don't have!

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by brett7777

One thing you get when you do buy the Falcon is rear wheel drive, which the Mondeo & Mazda definitely don't have!

... And you need RWD because?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Nic85

... And you need RWD because?

front wheel skids suck...

[csv8]

How about Ford ditch the idea of a 4 cylinder Falcon and put the Falcon badges on the Mondeo. Then the Falcon Titanium would be better specced than the Falcon 6 cylinder G6E !!!!!!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by csv8

How about Ford ditch the idea of a 4 cylinder Falcon and put the Falcon badges on the Mondeo. Then the Falcon Titanium would be better specced than the Falcon 6 cylinder G6E !!!!!!!!

I believe that FoA could do a RWD version of the Mondeo / Fusion as stated above,
that would plug Australia into two great cars locally built that share a whole bunch of
parts and engineering with other Ford regions.

If we stop making Falcon a $700 million development job every seven years and start using more of the
One Ford parts bin to make our favorite RWD car, then maybe we get a lot more features and a lower price..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by csv8

How about Ford ditch the idea of a 4 cylinder Falcon and put the Falcon badges on the Mondeo. Then the Falcon Titanium would be better specced than the Falcon 6 cylinder G6E !!!!!!!!

Does a Mondeo have a touch screen ICC?? People go on & on & on & on about the tech in a Mendeo & yet it fails to have the most important piece of tech there is in the world today. AKA. A touch screen!!! If you don’t have touch screen you don’t have tech in my opinion!!!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Does a Mondeo have a touch screen ICC?? People go on & on & on & on about the tech in a Mendeo & yet it fails to have the most important piece of tech there is in the world today. AKA. A touch screen!!! If you don’t have touch screen you don’t have tech in my opinion!!!

How is that the most important bit of tech?
Touch screen aside, the tech in a falcon isnt even near the same as mondeo but its getting there though.

[trippytaka]

My belief is that people in Australia have become more and more aspirational... on one level, because Falcons are used as Taxis and I think that there is an element of snobbery involved in the decision not to buy a Falcon.

[Brazen]

Just basic features are missing. Falcon and the Epica are the only two family sedans on the market without standard or optional sunroof