Falcon wagon

[waggaclint]

this article might help ya out http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2008...the-fore-11154

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

There is no FG Territory, they are going to heavily update the current one, expect FG mechanicals (195Kw 6, 5 speed Auto/ 270kw turbo, 6 speed Auto) FG front end design, maybe a slight change to the tail lights, and an interior based on FG, ...

So what you are saying is that they are making what will be cosmetically close to FG, with some FG mechanicals (and yet somehow not an FG)

Good, that is my starting point

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by waggaclint

this will be fords next wagon

I'll take that over the commo wagon. Even if it is FWD.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Wagons are back in fashion and what better than a nice FG wagon, imagine it with turbo and 6 speed auto. If only Ford OZ could find funds to build one...
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/135...potted-at-tmr/

It is not hard to put a turbo six in a wagon or a v8 for that matter .Its just that ford dont really care to much for their customers needs or desires. A few years back you could get an xr6 wagon and I think also an xr8 in the ef/el series wagons,before that you could also buy a ghia in a wagon or option a v8, not anymore, thanks very much ford, the best you can get these days is a basic six with no option for improvement.I dont even know if they make a fairmont wagon anymore. At holden, who seem to look after their customers needs, wants and desires, offer you an ss wagon with a 6.0 litre engine, and if thats not enough you can have the r8 with a 6.2 in a wagon, cranking out 317kw, now thats looking after their customers.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by dave289

A few years back you could get an xr6 wagon and I think also an xr8 in the ef/el series wagons,before that you could also buy a ghia in a wagon or option a v8, not anymore, thanks very much ford, the best you can get these days is a basic six with no option for improvement.

Yes they did and it failed to sell less then 500 units, wow there's money well spent.

As for its easy to put a T6 and V8 into a wagon for your back yard job yeah piece off pie but with car makers it gets a tad more expensive.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yes they did and it failed to sell less then 500 units, wow there's money well spent.

As for its easy to put a T6 and V8 into a wagon for your back yard job yeah piece off pie but with car makers it gets a tad more expensive.

Yes.. there's plenty of history of these options and models being avaliable but nobody bought them.. its no wonder Ford dropped them.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by dave289

It is not hard to put a turbo six in a wagon or a v8 for that matter .Its just that ford dont really care to much for their customers needs or desires. A few years back you could get an xr6 wagon and I think also an xr8 in the ef/el series wagons,before that you could also buy a ghia in a wagon or option a v8, not anymore, thanks very much ford, the best you can get these days is a basic six with no option for improvement.I dont even know if they make a fairmont wagon anymore. At holden, who seem to look after their customers needs, wants and desires, offer you an ss wagon with a 6.0 litre engine, and if thats not enough you can have the r8 with a 6.2 in a wagon, cranking out 317kw, now thats looking after their customers.

Yep. In recent years (since the BA) there were 2 models of wagon: XT or Futura. You could only get them as a 6, and only as a 4 speed auto. Fairmont was dropped when the BA came out. On EA-EB1, they made Fairmont Ghia wagons, on ED and EF there were XR6 wagons, and from EB through till about AU you could get them with a V8. Manuals were available right through the e-series era. It's a shame the way it's gone.

[FPV8U]

While i probably wouldn't buy a XR8 Wagen (Unless i ended up with a few too many kids for a sedan down the track :P) i'd love to see ford show some adventure and build something like this..

A car the size of a TTG doesn't interist me in the slightest.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

There is no FG Territory, they are going to heavily update the current one, expect FG mechanicals (195Kw 6, 5 speed Auto/ 270kw turbo, 6 speed Auto) FG front end design, maybe a slight change to the tail lights, and an interior based on FG, there is also a possibility of a diesel, and don't hold your breath for a V8, as that's more likely on the way out all together.

Mechanicals won't change to FG spec, they aren't Euro 4 compliant and can't be used. It will only switch to the Falcon spec when the engine goes Euro 4 in 2010.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i find it amusing that all these people say if ford built an xr wagon they would buy one, but the fact remains, ford did build xr6 wagons in the ed and ef range and sold only 476 in ef and even less of ed. these were not planned to be limited numbers models, thats all they could sell. there is not a big enough market to justify building a performance wagon.

i don't agree with the comment that holden have the market stitched up either. what holden have showed though is that it did not give commodore any increase in sales, it just stole sales off the sedan. this alone would be enough to stop ford investing in a whole new wagon.

Exactly. Wagons are a waste of money for Ford, they sell something like 400 BF3 wagons a month to fleets and they make a lot of profit on them as all R&D is paid for, and Holden can only sell around 1000 wagons a month, so why would Ford bother spending hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a wagon to gain a few hundred extra sales, that may just subsitute for sedan sales like the VE wagon has. :

There will never be an FG wagon.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Yes they did and it failed to sell less then 500 units, wow there's money well spent.

As for its easy to put a T6 and V8 into a wagon for your back yard job yeah piece off pie but with car makers it gets a tad more expensive.

While you are right the V8 Falcon wagon have struggled to move in the past.. there are pkenty of VX-VZ V8 Wagons out and about.

Only an idiot would have got an AU Wagon with a 175kw 5.0L and Leaf spring rear end compared to a VX Wagon with a 220Kw 5.7L and Independant rear end not to mention the Holden Wagens have looked better for the better part of a decade now.

[RedHotGT]

as an owner of an Unloved and Unpopular Wagon (EF XR6 wagon)... I will give my 2 cents...

10 years ago, there wasn't as big a market for Wagons.... really there wasn't...
Because Station Wagons were considered bulky, awkward, and ugly (which lets be honest - wasn't far from the truth)... They didn't sell heaps of WAGONS period 10 years ago.... particularly performance wagons...

The sad reality with Ford wagons for the past - well 20 years almost is, you can't make them look pretty from the back.... its a fact...
There was no 'factory' body kit with rear skirts for the E-series wagons.... and the AU/BA/BF rear is the worst **** end I've seen since the XD-XE-XF years.... You can go and get a wicked looking BA/BF XR front end, and you've got a pox-**** end that can't be saved....

Ford have never had the complete package when it comes to wagons.... Whereas Holdens (and this hurts to say it)... have had it sorted since VR/VS days.... All you needed was some decent wheels, and dump it a couple of inches - and you had something that looked pretty reasonable... Same goes for VT-VX and so-on...

Ford are great at jumping off the band-wagon *pardon the pun*, and then jumping back on... Most memorable is dumping the V8 option from the range.... whilst VK VL & VN models sold HEAPS of V8s Ford sat around with their thumbs in their **** standing by their decision... Only to come back to the market with EB 5Litres...

I wrote a letter to Wheels (most recent edition) that was printed about Wagon-oids.... they are the new tomorrow... and this is why I think that Ford DOES need to have an FG wagon... The picture posted in this thread looks good (though i'd drop the rear sunshade)... I'd buy one for sure....

lets just see what happens....
But put me on the list for a XR8 Wagon-oid for sure....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

While you are right the V8 Falcon wagon have struggled to move in the past.. there are pkenty of VX-VZ V8 Wagons out and about.

holden sell a lot of v8 models, not just in wagons and a lot of that is because the v6 is a terrible bit of gear.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by prydey

holden sell a lot of v8 models, not just in wagons and a lot of that is because the v6 is a terrible bit of gear.

Yes it is.. and average mum and dad don't seem to care they havn't since the VT and dont now as the VE 6 is still a POS compared to the 4.0L I6..

But..

The fact is they can make them sell, like they can make the LWB cars sell.. Ford have just been outclassed for too long in these areas and throwing a FWD Mondeo in the mix would only push Performance Wagon buyers further towards a SS or SSV Wagon.. theres some Nice examples over on LS1.com.au already and yes they are popular around my area, hell even i think they look alright and i do not like wagons.

[banarcus]

Why does the link make a reference to a "sportwagon"? That is a name of the holden commodore hatchback or SWB stationwagon. Ford wagons are not called sportwagons. It is just another example of the sheep mentality. Baa baa says the red sheep and all the blue sheep go and follow....

Ford cannot build a decent wagon because they cannot sell a decent sedan range. Simple. If you want it, build one yourself or buy a project from FTG wreckers..

[max_torq]

sportwagon - it's something of an oxymoron..

Where a wagon excels is hauling decent loads long distances at sedan speeds in sedan comfort at sedan running expenses; they are an efficient vehicle. The modern six also tows like a V8. If Ford is not going to develop the chassis, then they should be priced at a discount accordingly. That would make them attractive cars in this economic climate.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Y

The fact is they can make them sell,

they (commodore hatch) are selling, yes, but that is at the expense of sedan sales. the overall sales for the commodore are still the same or n the slide. ford will notice this and they will not spen the money developing a wagon when they are almost garaunteed zero return.

having said that, it does seem like the wagon market may be improving, given the number of manufacturers lately bringing out these hatchback type vehicles.

latest wheels mag (jan 09) has a territory v sv6 sportwagon. floor area in the rear is very similar apparently but overall volume is 30% more in the territory. i just went and measured my bf2 wagon and i'm not sure if the floor in the commo and territory is a lot higher but according to the mag, floor to roof measurement at highest point (behind rear seat) is-
commo- 460mm
territory - 500mm
bf2 wgn - 800mm.

length is 1120mm in both test vehicles.
bf2 = 1300mm.

i'd say volume in the current falcon wagon eats both of them for breaky.

at the end of the article the terry got the thumbs up by a huge margin.

for people like me who need a wagon to carry stuff, not just to keep up with trends, i hope if they do bring out an updated wagon, the luggage area is untouched from current specs. lets see anyone put a pram and a few suitcases and a esky in the back of any other so called station wagon.

[kocho]

The problem with the BA/F wagon and VY/Z wagons are that they were far too big. The VE is just that bit smaller, which is good, but it now isn't practical.

Mondeo wagon would be a perfect size IMO.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by kocho

The problem with the BA/F wagon and VY/Z wagons are that they were far too big. .

You'd be the only person to think this..... they're big for a reason, like utes have big trays.... They're work horses.
The commodore hatch was never really intended to replace the VZ wagon... it was simply a cheap way of utilising the sedan floor pan and platform for a bit more carry height.

[FTE217]

There's some good points for and against regarding a Ford falcon wagon but alas it will not happen....it will be interesting what the mondeo wagon will do in sales.
FordOz have been good at commiting "harikiri" many times with specific model segments ie wagon LWB.....
Seeing posts about the commy wagon taking sales from the sedan, so what the general still gets the sale !

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Seeing posts about the commy wagon taking sales from the sedan, so what the general still gets the sale !

They were always going to get the sale anyway... Holden will be disappointed that all the effort and r+d costs has delivered nothing in terms of incremental sales.
In fact i know of 1 fleet that bought them "sight unseen" on the premise that it was a genuine wagon and after delivery discovered they couldn't fit their expensive reps merchandising unit in the back!!
So repeat business won't be high...

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Ford cannot build a decent wagon because they cannot sell a decent sedan range. Simple. If you want it, build one yourself or buy a project from FTG wreckers..

Ford had "decent wagons", but nobody bought them.
Everybody craps on and says, "Gee, I'd love an XR6/8 wagon."

Why? Because there are so few (exclusivity factor?), or because you genuinely want one?
It's great saying, "I'd buy one", but when it comes to actually do it, very few ever answer the call.
Ford did the right thing. They gave it a go, and it didn't work.

The wagon segment is simply not conducive to attracting new buyers.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ford had "decent wagons", but nobody bought them.
Everybody craps on and says, "Gee, I'd love an XR6/8 wagon."

Why? Because there are so few (exclusivity factor?), or because you genuinely want one?
It's great saying, "I'd buy one", but when it comes to actually do it, very few ever answer the call.
Ford did the right thing. They gave it a go, and it didn't work.

The wagon segment is simply not conducive to attracting new buyers.

You are spot on.
Everyone is great at coming up with every conceivable model permutation and combination as a "great idea" but when the time comes to hand over the folding everyone runs away..
I dont blame Ford one bit for consolidating their range, its one of the reasons they're in the best shape of the 3 bigs at the moment.

[XR Martin]

I think you will find that the Commodore wagon is similar to most Euro wagons now, the Falcon is probably the last traditional wagon on sale anywhere in the World.
E-Class, A6, 5 series wagons would all be of similar size to a VE Wagon, if not smaller.

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ford had "decent wagons", but nobody bought them.
Everybody craps on and says, "Gee, I'd love an XR6/8 wagon."

Why? Because there are so few (exclusivity factor?), or because you genuinely want one?
It's great saying, "I'd buy one", but when it comes to actually do it, very few ever answer the call.
Ford did the right thing. They gave it a go, and it didn't work.

The wagon segment is simply not conducive to attracting new buyers.

Your 'decent wagon' and what I call a 'decent wagon' are different. I didn't buy a 6cyl wagon because I don't like 6cyl powered cars. I built a wagon that suits my needs, hence the last sentence in my last post. In fact, my wife and have given the SSV hatchback serious consideration.

Perhaps what I shouldv'e said was that Ford cannot justify building a FG wagon if they cannot sell decent numbers of the FG sedan.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Your 'decent wagon' and what I call a 'decent wagon' are different. I didn't buy a 6cyl wagon because I don't like 6cyl powered cars. I built a wagon that suits my needs, hence the last sentence in my last post. In fact, my wife and have given the SSV hatchback serious consideration.

Perhaps what I shouldv'e said was that Ford cannot justify building a FG wagon if they cannot sell decent numbers of the FG sedan.

Please explain to me how a ssv commodore hatch is a "decent wagon"?
Its not even a real wagon to begin with? Its just a ssv commodore with a hatch rear door instead of a boot lid which gives it a bit more carrying height....
Its a bit like calling a cheese burger a decent hamburger....
Fords inability to sell FG's in larger numbers has nothing to do with the quality of the range.....

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Please explain to me how a ssv commodore hatch is a "decent wagon"?
Its not even a real wagon to begin with? Its just a ssv commodore with a hatch rear door instead of a boot lid which gives it a bit more carrying height....
Its a bit like calling a cheese burger a decent hamburger....
Fords inability to sell FG's in larger numbers has nothing to do with the quality of the range.....

OK okay and ok. What I said in the beginning was that Ford cannot have any hope of justifying/building a new FG wagon because the widely acclaimed FG sedan range is not setting the world on fire. Therefore, if you preferred a Ford station wagon but didn't like what the factory offered, build one yourself or buy a project from FTG.

You could bet your bottom dollar that Ford would've updated their wagon range if the FG was a runaway sales success.

As for decent wagons, I have to compromise in my household. My wife loves V8s so long as they are GM. A commodore hatchback with a V8 is as decent as they come in relation to what is available in the Australian market these days. However, I agree with your assessment of the VE hatch in every regard.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by banarcus

You could bet your bottom dollar that Ford would've updated their wagon range if the FG was a runaway sales success.

.

I doubt it, Ford would have mad a decision regarding the wagon long before FG went on sale.
Wagon sales are treated separately to sedans, the only reason Ford would have considered a FG wagon was if they thought it would have sold well in its own right.

[cuz]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I quite like that, as long as it had reasonable space in the rear as opposed to the opposition, I'd consider buying one.

That thing looks bloody horrible!!!
Too much like some euro import POS.
Just keep the current BA/BF styling and drop in a V8 or typhoon options.
Then, I'd buy one.