Replacement Tyre - Page 2

svo supporter · 08-02-2010, 10:17 PM

Yep, that's them as JC has mentioned. They are the nuts that hold the upper control arm in place. To adjust the caster , all that is needed is to undo those nuts and slip a 3MM shim between the upper control arm and the inner guard, from the wheel side in the front one.

In saying all that, take the car back to where the alignment was done and get them to fix it properly. Also looking at that picture, providing that is of your car, there is no need to buy a camber/caster kit to fix your problem. So don't let them bully you into buying a kit, because it's not necessary.

Good luck and keep us posted

JMO · 09-02-2010, 10:10 AM

I just booked it in to have it re-done. The guy I spoke to said that it could be tyres etc. I told him about the castor being off and the possibility of shimming the bolts (and that they had about 6-7mm of thread) he said that if they are factory bolts it may not be safe to shim them and then do them up safely and that a camber/castor kit might be needed to do it safely.

I'll see what happens tomorrow.

svo supporter · 09-02-2010, 06:16 PM

All that is needed is to have 3 threads sticking out to be safe and legal. So it does sound like they're trying to do the hard sell on you already.

I also must apologise to. I made a stuff up by saying you need to put these shims in the front. It's actually the back one. So I do apologise for that. (I'll blame a long hot day for it)

Please keep us posted and once agan, sorry for my stuff up.

AMB · 09-02-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

All that is needed is to have 3 threads sticking out to be safe and legal. So it does sound like they're trying to do the hard sell on you already.

I also must apologise to. I made a stuff up by saying you need to put these shims in the front. It's actually the back one. So I do apologise for that. (I'll blame a long hot day for it)

Please keep us posted and once agan, sorry for my stuff up.

I think your forgot to say which wheel, left or right. I'm guessing you trying to increase caster of the left, so insert shim there.

JMO · 09-02-2010, 09:22 PM

No need to apologise svo, you've been a great deal of help.

I did notice that the front set of bolts on the left hand side only has one thread visible. I know I haven't touched it so can only assume it was like that from factory (unless the previous owner had something done to it). Perhaps that is what is causing the drift, it has been shimmed incorrectly?

It'll be interesting to see what they have to say about it tomorrow.

svo supporter · 09-02-2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMB

I think your forgot to say which wheel, left or right. I'm guessing you trying to increase caster of the left, so insert shim there.

Yes you are right AMB, but when I commented on shimming, it was to do with the picture posted up.

JMO. It is very possible that shims have been added to the left hand side, therefore causing your problems.

I do apologise AMB for being a little slack over it all. Needless to say, we are all on the right track anyway, so we'll wait to hear how it goes.

AMB · 09-02-2010, 11:50 PM

Just trying to help out a bit svo, I thought you were probably referring to that picture, was just trying to clear it up for others that might be reading. Its hard to include all the details and make it clear without writing a bloody essay.
The information you have provided has been very useful. All the manuals tell you that caster and camber can't be adjusted, but after having a look at that upper control arm mount I can see it is indeed possible to make some small adjustments. Reminds of the setup that was on my 1970 Holden HT, with shims on the upper control arm.

AMB · 10-02-2010, 01:36 AM

Oops, my comment above has now really confused the matter, that picture is of the right hand side wheel. Damn. Sorry about that. We need to increase caster of left hand side, or decrease caster of right had side, is that right.

svo supporter · 10-02-2010, 09:13 AM

Decrease the caster on the right hand side AMB, which means putting shims in the back of the control arm.

Yeah, it does make things difficult explaining things without that essay. I also find it difficult wording it so I don't offend people. But you dedfinately have been a help AMB, so thanks. Now hopefully the OP gets it sorted.

JMO · 10-02-2010, 04:59 PM

Okay, I took it in today and one of the guys from the shop took it for a drive (spiritedly) after I explained *again* that the car is drifting to the left. He said that it drove fine on the road and that the drift was perfectly normal on a road with a lean to it.

I asked him about adjusting the caster and he said that (this is when the guy I talked to on the phone yesterday chimed in and let me know that "it wouldn't be safe") there was a "bees d***" of thread on it and that he could adjust it but it would then drift in the opposite direction

: I asked about swapping the caster values (left to right) and was told it wouldn't work either. Apparently, a car that has the ability to change lanes on its own is completely normal

:

He said a camber kit was needed to do it properly and that I should go to Pedders to have one installed.

Now if they had bothered to actually check they would have seen that the left had been shimmed by someone else and that the car was already "unsafe" because their isn't much thread coming out into the engine bay. (see pics)

I would have had them *try* to fix it but they've proven they have no idea as it is. Suprising seeing it is one of the Big two tyre chains.

A little blurry but you can see that there is only one thread visible near the nut, then the bottom of the bolt.

Here is the shim that was previously installed on the front LH side either by the previous owner or from factory (I doubt factory as it isn't present on my brothers AU).

Now other than taking it to another shop, how do I go about fixing this myself? Is it simply a matter of removing the shim on the left and torquing the bolt to factory spec, will this effect the alignment? Do I shim the right instead? I think I already asked this but will this cause any tyre wear?

AMB · 10-02-2010, 05:38 PM

So looks like someone tried to increase the LHS caster, and that's as far as they could go (even went a bit to far, with not enough thread showing). So like SVO said, the only option is to decrease the RHS caster. How many shims are on the RHS? I wouldn't be surprised if RHS is also fully shimmed, and that's what they're trying to tell you.

JMO · 10-02-2010, 06:07 PM

There aren't any shims on the right hand side

LHR

LHR Bolt/Thread

RHR

RHF

RH Bolts/Thread

Here's a clearer shot of the LHF Bolt/thread

svo supporter · 10-02-2010, 06:33 PM

All I can say is, that place you went to were a mob of D/H's that are only interested in ripping you blind. (Sorry for the frankness). They are just to lazy to undo 2 nuts and fix your problem.

Those pictures you have put up are brilliant. Shims can be placed in there safely and it will stop that drift you have on the majority of surfaces.

Yes you can do this job yourself, if you had the shims to do it. I'll try and explain the process.

Undo all 4 nuts on the right hand side, so they are just hanging onto the thread. Once you've achieved this, jack the car, so the right hand wheels are hanging. With a flat bladed screw driver leaver out the RHR upper control arm bracket, so you can place the 3MM shim inbetween the bracket and the inner guard. This can be a pain in the rectum, but achieveabe providing you're persistant.

Once the shim is in place, lower the car back down and tighten these nuts back up. IMA, it's not necessary to torque them to any spec. Just make sure they are tight and Bob's your uncle.

The only thing you'll then find is, the steering wheel maybe crooked, but otherwise it won't change the toe setting that dramatically, that it'll cause tyre wear.

If you'd like piccies of these shims, just say so and I'll post them up tomorrow night. If you need any, PM and that can be arranged.

JMO · 10-02-2010, 09:44 PM

D/H's is an understatement! DEFINATELY won't be going back there again! Need to find a more reputable/knowledgeable dealer next time :P

PM sent.

AMB · 10-02-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMB

.... I wouldn't be surprised if RHS is also fully shimmed, and that's what they're trying to tell you.......

Yeh sorry about that comment, I assumed they must know what they are talking about, needing a camber kit cos no more adjustment available. So it does seems they don't know what they're doing (or are trying to get more money out of you). Even I can work it out, and I didn't even know caster could be adjusted on these models before this thread. I had a look at a couple of AUs today, they were both shimmed for caster, so much for not being adjustable.

svo supporter · 11-02-2010, 06:56 PM

The factory mounting brackets vary on the shims that are there. Some have a heap, others have zilch. The only way to tell if they have had any added, is to unbolt it and wait for the shims to fall out. Factory shims are spot welded in place on the UCA mounting brackets.

Another problem that occurs is people can't think outside the square. That is, they see the words "factory specs" or the words "can't" and that's the end of it.

That's why it's handy to have a little knowledge as far as suspensions are concerned and apply it accordingly.

Anyway, hope this clears things up a little more and I do hope the Op gets his car fixed PROPERLY.

JMO · 11-02-2010, 07:14 PM

never mind