New roads laws for NSW (Oct2012 Edition)

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

This is like one main one in our area. Out the front of a hospital, Hungry Jacks, Bunnings, and a car dealer. On a main highway, with 4 side streets. Many people have complained, and been a fair few accidents (my ex included from someone not looking). Been many calls to put lights in

I have heard people say they would like to see a fly over at that roundabout and the next one down near the train station.
That will never happen, especially since the Expressway is being built.
Hopefully that will ease a fair bit of the traffic going through Maitland during the peak times.

I agree that people have no idea how to use roundabouts. I have seen a number of people indicate left, as they follow the round about around to the right. They seamed to be indicating their exit way to early.

[T3man]

Those "new" rules are only new to people who didn't already know of them. Beats me how they can introduce a "new" rule that has already been the law for years???

The only one I see at a quick glance that is in fact new, is the rule for mobile phones; which is actually a relaxation of the old law and I think it is a good change.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by T3man

Those "new" rules are only new to people who didn't already know of them. Beats me how they can introduce a "new" rule that has already been the law for years???

The only one I see at a quick glance that is in fact new, is the rule for mobile phones; which is actually a relaxation of the old law and I think it is a good change.

If you read the second page of the flyer. They are not all new rules, just changes that clarify the rule and make it easier to understand.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by xisled

If you read the second page of the flyer. They are not all new rules, just changes that clarify the rule and make it easier to understand.

I did say "at a quick glance" ... was driving down the freeway using my Ipad.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by T3man

I did say "at a quick glance" ... was driving down the freeway using my Ipad.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by xisled

If you read the second page of the flyer. They are not all new rules, just changes that clarify the rule and make it easier to understand.

i find it difficult to read any RTA literature, as it's all in semi-legalese greek.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i find it difficult to read any RTA literature, as it's all in semi-legalese greek.

Also known as 'management speak' .

[HULK EF]

i dont see the fuss.. i usualy indicate to exit the roundabout anyways like this OLD/new rule states anyway.
Is pretty entertaining watching the general public driving around roundabouts.. -much like the "weekend skippers" at public boat ramps.

If the cops clamp down on this "Non use of exit indicating on roundabouts" there should be a few extra million in tax.. (CoUgH) revenue... ARRGGHH!! CoUgH CoUgH!!!) Fines handed out.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

i dont see the fuss.. i usualy indicate to exit the roundabout anyways like this OLD/new rule states anyway.
Is pretty entertaining watching the general public driving around roundabouts.. -much like the "weekend skippers" at public boat ramps.

If the cops clamp down on this "Non use of exit indicating on roundabouts" there should be a few extra million in tax.. (CoUgH) revenue... ARRGGHH!! CoUgH CoUgH!!!) Fines handed out.

They have already done it up here a couple of times. They had a spotter and a car/bike about 100m along from each exit.

Despite the fact that they did a TV story the day before and several radio interviews on how they were going to enforce roundabouts they got lots.

[Silver Ghia]

If you need to change to the outer (left) lane to exit, you must give way to any vehicles in that lane. Best to anticipate, so you can merge into that lane without interupting traffic flow in either lane. But then many drivers dont know how to anticipate.

Driving in England is a real experience at roundabouts, where everyone knows what to do and how to indicate, lanes are clearly marked with arrows and destination markings in the various lanes, so they are very easy to negotiate. But cutting across from one lane to another to straightline the roundabout(what is done here all the time) is guaranteed a few loud horns aimed at you. Those English drivers may be courteous, but they dont tolerate bad driving much.

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Just stick to using them as a chicane down two gears on entry and into it hit the apex indicate on exit....

[Fiesta_Man69]

Well, didn't take them long. Cop on the side of the road (on the grass due to space) pinging people for indicators near the big 4 lane roundabout near Bunnings north of Penrith..... thankfully I was going the other way...

[5.8]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Well, didn't take them long. Cop on the side of the road (on the grass due to space) pinging people for indicators near the big 4 lane roundabout near Bunnings north of Penrith..... thankfully I was going the other way...

How do you know that was what he was doing? Did you stop and ask? Or just assumed he was "revenue raising" with the new exiting roundabout laws. Pretty impossible to enforce really due to the words "where practical" that are included in the law of indicating when exiting a roundabout. Respond with the words "it wasn't practical due to steering/timing/changing gears or whatever and you would be covered. As most Highway Police would be more aware of the wordings and their meanings than us general public, I'm sure they would be aware that this law is very hard to enforce.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by fo,mo and co

How do you know that was what he was doing? Did you stop and ask? Or just assumed he was "revenue raising" with the new exiting roundabout laws. Pretty impossible to enforce really due to the words "where practical" that are included in the law of indicating when exiting a roundabout. Respond with the words "it wasn't practical due to steering/timing/changing gears or whatever and you would be covered. As most Highway Police would be more aware of the wordings and their meanings than us general public, I'm sure they would be aware that this law is very hard to enforce.

If the police are more aware of the "wording" it won't stop them booking people though and they'll leave it to the motorist to either wear it or take it to court.

[graham7773]

Is there a "period of grace" where you can get away with no indicators whatever? I had to do a bit of driving around outer western Sydney today
(more than 60 Ks) and I was the only person using indicators at roundabouts at all. The policemen will be very busy if they try to enforce these rules, the numbies either can't work it out or just refuse to do it as it is just too hard for the poor dears. . Of course, the $297 and 3 points may have some effect. $397 and 4 points if in a school zone.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by graham7773

Is there a "period of grace" where you can get away with no indicators whatever? I had to do a bit of driving around outer western Sydney today
(more than 60 Ks) and I was the only person using indicators at roundabouts at all. The policemen will be very busy if they try to enforce these rules, the numbies either can't work it out or just refuse to do it as it is just too hard for the poor dears. . Of course, the $297 and 3 points may have some effect. $397 and 4 points if in a school zone.

Can confidently state 'no' there is no period of grace. Besides seeing a copper myself, just off a major roundabout (he wasn't rbt) yesterday my fears were confirmed by Ch 9 News (Sydney) last night: reporter Damian Ryan went along for a 'ride' with the highway patrol as they booked motorist after motorist for not using their indicator when exiting - and several were on very small roundabouts too.... The police were then filmed writing tickets, and were on camera as saying it 'was a very expensive lesson to learn' when motorists used the 'I didn't know' excuse. So no warnings.

[falconnut]

i knew about all of these 'new' laws anways but the fines a rediculously high.

NSW can cram it i cant afford it.

[flappist]

The topic is the new road laws in NSW.

Please do not wander off into politics again.

[graham7773]

I am having trouble with "indicate left when entering a roundabout". Where else would you be going but left? Getting off is simple. There is a little single lane roundabout near where I live with an island about 2.5 meters in diameter. I have no trouble giving the necessary right turn signal on and because I have to slow down so much to negotiate it, there's plenty of time to give a left turn off. I guess it's all about how fast you're going through the roundabout as to whether you can manage a signal or not. 70 v 15kph? Some people simply do not have the time to slow down. Just by the way, a young bloke (green peas) recently destroyed his car by charging the roundabout at the wrong time. A small truck came onto the roundabout just before the young bloke got there. Of course he was going way too fast and wrote his newish car off under the side of the truck. Ah well, it's a hard way to learn. Before anyone asks how I know, I arrived at the scene seconds after the smash.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by graham7773

I am having trouble with "indicate left when entering a roundabout". Where else would you be going but left? Getting off is simple. There is a little single lane roundabout near where I live with an island about 2.5 meters in diameter. I have no trouble giving the necessary right turn signal on and because I have to slow down so much to negotiate it, there's plenty of time to give a left turn off. I guess it's all about how fast you're going through the roundabout as to whether you can manage a signal or not. 70 v 15kph? Some people simply do not have the time to slow down. Just by the way, a young bloke (green peas) recently destroyed his car by charging the roundabout at the wrong time. A small truck came onto the roundabout just before the young bloke got there. Of course he was going way too fast and wrote his newish car off under the side of the truck. Ah well, it's a hard way to learn. Before anyone asks how I know, I arrived at the scene seconds after the smash.

Yes the entering indications are just stupid, quite unnecessary. I don't think it's law in the home of the roundabout, Europe, and nobody does it, but you do indicate on leaving out of consideration for those waiting to enter. Indicating while going round past each exit is also polite because it tells people waiting at those entrances whether it's OK for them to go or not.

Love the guy hitting the truck, if ever there was divine justice this is it. Charging the roundabout is the ugliest aspect of Australians' use of roundabouts - the police could do well to concentrate on that more than indicators. Especially the number of people charging who ignorantly think they're in the right and honk horns at you etc. Major shortfall in compliance with roundabout protocol there.

I also wish the police would spend time policing keeping left unless overtaking. That should be an easy one for mobile patrols, all they have to do is tail cars for a while (preferably in an unmarked car!). These things are bigger safety issues than "speeding".

[Rodp]

Dislike the indicate left when leaving a roundabout rule. It's largely ignored in Sydney - even by Police vehicles. For me, it's never practical unless it's on an absolutely huge multi-lane roundabout.

Was behind a learner driver today going through a few roundabouts in Lidcombe and he was indicating left on exit which was causing him to almost steer into the gutter every time and having to hit the anchors to avoid doing so.

[new2ford]

Since I've been driving for the past 6 months under European road laws, and Europe being the origin of the roundabout (so they should know a thing or three about it), I thought I'd look up and see whether I've been doing the wrong thing as people here only signal when leaving, or changing lanes within the roundabout (in a large roundabout with lanes) - which all seems naturally logical to me. And this is what I find (Czech road rules which are European standard):

. The driver must signal only when changing lanes left and right on the roundabout and when leaving the roundabout.
. The use of an indicator/blinker is not permitted when entering the roundabout - only when exiting.

This what I've been doing for years in Australia based on commonsense. When I see these new rules in Australia and the use of the words "turning left/right, going straight ahead" it occurs to me that road authorities in Australia have no idea of the principles of roundabouts, which is very worrying. And you can hardly then blame road users for not understanding them either if they're being miseducated this way!

I can see the NSW constabulary are going to make some rich pickings based on a falsehood here - especially from overseas visitors! Great technique for govco to change the law to something wrong and then rake in the cash from motorists who are forced to resist their instincts to do it the right way and now learn the wrong way.

Interestingly the RTA brochure also shows right indicator flashing within the roundabout when not changing lanes which is also wrong. Australian visitors to Europe should be aware that they will be fined if they follow NSW road rules when using roundabouts.

[cobramania]

I only indicate to leave a roundabout & will continue to do so, if you read the rule you'll find you only have to indicate unless not practical to do so, that will be my excuse if I get pulled over. Under the law, what stipulates practical & what isn't? I think it has to be clear & unambiguous to be charged guilty of an offence, & in my book that isn't?

Also I was going straight through a 2 lane roundabout on the inside lane a couple of days ago, & the person in the outside lane was indicating right as we past the first exit (left turn), but before we arrived at the second exit (straight through). I didn't know what the **** they were intending to do & probably they didn't know what they were supposed to be indicating. I stepped on the brakes incase they were going to turn right in front of me as I exited the roundabout & almost had someone run up the back of me. Too many indications only confuse people & make it dangerous. It should be as per the European rules, & indicate only when leaving the roundabout. You have to follow the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) rule, to accommodate the thousands of dumb drivers.

[new2ford]

^^
You do have to accept though cobramania that you need to signal when changing lanes in a large roundabout just as you would signal when changing lanes on any road. This is why the NSW law of having your right indicator on when in the right lane makes no sense (indeed confusing and dangerous as you found in your example).

By the way (as I was saying!), there is no such thing as "straight through" on a roundabout.

Keepleft maybe you can brief us on the international standardisation under UN conventions that NSW is supposed to be complying with?

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by new2ford

^^
You do have to accept though cobramania that you need to signal when changing lanes in a large roundabout just as you would signal when changing lanes on any road. This is why the NSW law of having your right indicator on when in the right lane makes no sense (indeed confusing and dangerous as you found in your example).

By the way (as I was saying!), there is no such thing as "straight through" on a roundabout.

Thing is, there's only a very small percentage of roundabouts in NSW that would be large enough to "need to" or be able to safely change lanes whilst on it or before you get out the other side. The vast majority of roundabouts in NSW are also small enough, that on a 2 lane roundabout, you can easily straight-line it through, by entering in the left lane, crossing lanes in the middle & exiting in the left lane, something I often see in light traffic, I've even done it myself at times of no traffic around. So technically in NSW roundabouts straight through is an option. Many people I also see change lanes on exit, being in the inside lane on the roundabout & finishing up in the left lane upon exit.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by cobramania

you can easily straight-line it through, by entering in the left lane, crossing lanes in the middle & exiting in the left lane, something I often see in light traffic, I've even done it myself at times of no traffic around.

You must have seen me driving past lol But I do signal!

Straightlining is a better term than "going straight ahead", the ultimate straightlining practice being of course trams in Melbourne. That's really spooky for car drivers.

Small roundabouts are certainly more common in Australia (following UK), so there is certainly more scope for using the "where practicable" excuse!

Sure the car electronics parts industry will get a boost from replacing all the broken indicators resulting from holding the stick down one way while turning the steering wheel the other!