E85 Fallen on its ***? - Page 2

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

what area?

http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/united/find-a-store

Bonnie Doon Man! Ratter you should be supporting LPG not bloody Ethanol seeing as you work for an LPG system supplier lol!

burnz · 05-01-2014, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

No offence McNews but you are aloooong way outta town.......Lucky you up ther away from all the traffic!

What I am saying is even in metro Melbs ther are stuff all E85 pumps.....E10 yes but why even bother?

What I am trying to say is this apparent new 'enviro friendly' fuel has fallen off a cliff......Five years is along time and its still not popular amongst the masses.

why would a oil company sell something that hurts it bottom line?

if bundy distillers setup their own sevos, a different thread would emerge.

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

why would a oil company sell something that hurts it bottom line?

if bundy distillers setup their own sevos, a different thread would emerge.

Well if its so good why hav'nt all the servo's converted to mostly Ethanol pumps???

They hav'nt because the consumers don't like it...... Supply and demand!

ratter · 05-01-2014, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

What I am saying is even in metro Melbs ther are stuff all E85 pumps.....E10 yes but why even bother?

.

82 united servo's within 50 klms of Melbourne, have no idea about Caltex ones, yep stuff all around Melbourne

ratter · 05-01-2014, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

Bonnie Doon Man! Ratter you should be supporting LPG not bloody Ethanol seeing as you work for an LPG system supplier lol!

I work for myself, not a LPG supplier, we install LPG kits from several suppliers, we also modify and tune cars for ethanol based fuels as well, there is different ways to go about running cars, we are not one eyed just to believe in one, but what suits one customer may not suit another.

MITCHAY · 05-01-2014, 06:03 PM

Have you considered the demand is not there because people are not aware of any of the benefits?

Not to mention I vaguely recall quite a while back there was all the scaremongering going on about damaging the cars fuel system and what not.

It is widely used in countries such as Brazil and the US.

ratter · 05-01-2014, 06:05 PM

High ethanol fuels can damage some fuel systems and the corrosive properties can cause rubbish to break free from the insides of the fuel tank and lines and cause fuel filter issues if not regularly replaced initially, some call this the cleaning properties

Franco Cozzo · 05-01-2014, 06:08 PM

I've been using United 100 in my Falcon, has ethanol content, would that be cleaning inside the fuel system?

burnz · 05-01-2014, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

Well if its so good why hav'nt all the servo's converted to mostly Ethanol pumps???

you need to reread my "post"

oil companies loose money selling ethanol, not make money.

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I've been using United 100 in my Falcon, has ethanol content, would that be cleaning inside the fuel system?

Well if its 85% or higher I would say yes......Does the owners manual say you can actually run 85 or higher.....I doubt it!

E10 is not even worth bothering with!

**Dave R** · 05-01-2014, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

Well I just think its great that the Holden product didn't work and all the sheep didn't flock to it like it was some miracle from mars lol!

How are you drawing the conclusion that it didn't work? All Holden did was build E85 compatibility into their existing engines and they clearly stated that it wasn't designed to save people money, it was about offering a sustainable fuel option and future-proofing in case fuel prices spiked unexpectedly again like they did in 2006.

If you want to talk about products that didn't work, let's talk about Ford's Ecoboost and EcoLPI which failed miserably in the market. They were distinct models that did not sell, unlike Commodores that feature the E85 compatibility across the range regardless of whether people choose to use it or not.

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

you need to reread my "post"

oil companies loose money selling ethanol, not make money.

O.k...Why sell it then???

FPV GTHO · 05-01-2014, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Have you considered the demand is not there because people are not aware of any of the benefits?

Not to mention I vaguely recall quite a while back there was all the scaremongering going on about damaging the cars fuel system and what not.

It is widely used in countries such as Brazil and the US.

I think people are possibly not aware of anything when it comes to E85. I recall an ACA/TT report some time back of someone having a winge as they had mistakenly filled up with E85 and their car wasn't suitable. Then last week I came across a post on the Whirlpool forums where someone didn't understand why they were getting 17l/100km fuel consumption from an SV6 using E85.

I wish there were more pumps and more suppliers than just Caltex who won't provide a guranteed ethanol percentage and United who around here are largely look like run down private servos.

Franco Cozzo · 05-01-2014, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

Well if its 85% or higher I would say yes......Does the owners manual say you can actually run 85 or higher.....I doubt it!

E10 is not even worth bothering with!

Its just 98 with 10% ethanol to bring octane rating up to 100.

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think people are possibly not aware of anything when it comes to E85. I recall an ACA/TT report some time back of someone having a winge as they had mistakenly filled up with E85 and their car wasn't suitable. Then last week I came across a post on the Whirlpool forums where someone didn't understand why they were getting 17l/100km fuel consumption from an SV6 using E85.

I wish there were more pumps and more suppliers than just Caltex who won't provide a guranteed ethanol percentage and United who around here are largely look like run down private servos.

The fuel has had five whole years to make its stand......Not much has changed in that time and as I said even the Asian manufacturers ar'nt using it.....

I think the whole idea is flawed considering how much energy goes into growing/producing the fuel before it even gets to the pumps.

At least LPG/LNG comes naturally from producing petrol/diesel.

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its just 98 with 10% ethanol to bring octane rating up to 100.

So 2% octane rating higher is going to give you how much power increase?

Is it actually cheaper than 98 I'm interested to know?

Franco Cozzo · 05-01-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

So 2% octane rating higher is going to give you how much power increase?

Is it actually cheaper than 98 I'm interested to know?

I'm not sure, my Falcon has been tuned to run on minimum 98 so its 98 or higher, I'm getting the same amount of distance on BP98 and United 100, 600km to 70L, 90% highway cruising.

I don't really bother about how much fuel costs, I always go to the same few servos, for the Falcon its United in Sunbury and for my other cars the local Shell servo in town.

$75 to fill the Focus with diesel
$100-$110 usually for the Falcon
$150+ for the Ambo

None of our petrol cars get 91 anymore, the local servo only sells 91 or 98 so they get 98, the new Caltex has everything except E85 but they're a bunch of tossers so we don't use them and their diesel makes my Focus run like crap compared to the Shell one.

FPV GTHO · 05-01-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

The fuel has had five whole years to make its stand......Not much has changed in that time and as I said even the Asian manufacturers ar'nt using it.....

I think the whole idea is flawed considering how much energy goes into growing/producing the fuel before it even gets to the pumps.

At least LPG/LNG comes naturally from producing petrol/diesel.

5 years in the scheme of things is nothing. I wonder what the first 5 years of LPG looked like?

ratter · 05-01-2014, 07:45 PM

E10 fuel has various octane ratings, any ethanol content will result in slightly more fuel use due to it's stoich value, the lower the ethanol content then the closer it will be to unleaded fuel.
There is no power benefit unless tuned for it

needaXYGT · 05-01-2014, 07:56 PM

What a shemozzle

mcnews · 05-01-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

what area?

http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/united/find-a-store

Eildon mate, every servo around here has 98 but nobody has E85, a few servos also have 50:1 two-stroke on bowser though :-) . And like I say hardly the boonies, average a little over 1.5 hours to the airport. I can't possibly imagine people locking themselves into the restricted availability of fuel in a daily, or anything remotely resembling a daily.

But then again I did use to run my first car on Avgas when there were only two servos in Perth with a bowser, fill the Charger and four jerry cans in the boot each time, lol. 200 thou off the top of the TRW forged flat top pistons just to get valve to piston clearance (.517 lift) after I stroked it (from 3.31 to 3.58 - 360 crank with turned down journals in 318 block with 30 thou over took it to 355), compression ratio was a little high :-)

kevino · 05-01-2014, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The Pub strikes again. There isn't a specific E85 Commodore model. They all run E85.

I feed my SS E85 (United), I like the stuff. It's much cheaper than 98, which probably ends up balancing out with the increased fuel consumption, but I'm not using it to save money. The car goes harder (and even sounds better) on the stuff, the exhaust tips don't carbon up like they do with 98, the exhaust fumes smell sweet like sugar which is hilarious and it's better for the environment. I have a United closeby so it's a no-brainer for me.

I like the logic you use here.............and it is mainly Australian sourced energy from local non food crops. Reduces our reliance on foreign oil and better for the environment.

MrXR8 · 05-01-2014, 08:07 PM

At what temp does ethanol burn as opposed to usual unleaded petrol?

I mean we have heat rated plugs for a reason and they are there to burn regular fuel not this rubbish, so if it burns hotter than regular wouldn't it cause internal damage?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

b0son · 05-01-2014, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The Pub strikes again. There isn't a specific E85 Commodore model. They all run E85.

Do you know if the VFs still run it?

GASWAGON · 05-01-2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

E10 fuel has various octane ratings, any ethanol content will result in slightly more fuel use due to it's stoich value, the lower the ethanol content then the closer it will be to unleaded fuel.
There is no power benefit unless tuned for it

I am not really concerned about E10 because the difference it makes to emissions would be close to two tenths of a pile of BS!

What I am talking about is the full strength E85 that was supposed to take the world over.....That's 85% Ethanol fuel per every litre.

It has been a flop and it is overwhelmingly obvious because the servos ar'nt changing all of there 91,95,98 pumps to E85 are they???

Why? Because the manufacturers cannot see the benefits of making cars that run this type of fuel!

**Dave R** · 05-01-2014, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Do you know if the VFs still run it?

Absolutely. Every petrol engine in the range is E85 ready, from 3.0 Evoke to 6.0 SS.

You can browse their recommended fuels in the spec sheets here: http://www.holden.com.au/cars/commod...specifications

ratter · 05-01-2014, 08:49 PM

Quote:

I am not really concerned about E10 because the difference it makes to emissions would be close to two tenths of a pile of BS!

What I am talking about is the full strength E85 that was supposed to take the world over.....That's 85% Ethanol fuel per every litre.

It has been a flop and it is overwhelmingly obvious because the servos ar'nt changing all of there 91,95,98 pumps to E85 are they???

Why? Because the manufacturers cannot see the benefits of making cars that run this type of fuel!

E10 has been mentioned and it is mixed with 98, my post as to clear up for those that may not know that there is different types of E10's, not everyone knows as much as you do.

It's a flop? why? because you have not noticed any bowsers or know of very many cars running it
Every new United servo is putting in E85 bowsers, they must think it is a flop.

LPG was real popular years ago wasn't it, took a long time before bowsers were fitted to most servo's

FlipXW · 05-01-2014, 08:56 PM

E85 is awesome for power gains.
LPG sucks, must be good acid round your way...

ratter · 05-01-2014, 08:59 PM

another misconception, good power can be made from LPG and cheaper to run per tank, but many people have no idea and live in the past and make comments like it's only good for BBQ's but that's getting off track now

burnz · 05-01-2014, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_6

I am not really concerned about E10 because the difference it makes to emissions would be close to two tenths of a pile of BS!

What I am talking about is the full strength E85 that was supposed to take the world over.....That's 85% Ethanol fuel per every litre.

It has been a flop and it is overwhelmingly obvious because the servos ar'nt changing all of there 91,95,98 pumps to E85 are they???

Why? Because the manufacturers cannot see the benefits of making cars that run this type of fuel!

again you fail, manufacturers "can" see the benefits. but oil company's sell hydrocarbons. (they are the ones who make or brake a car makers direction)

in brazil there is no petrol just ethanol/biodiesel, so oil company's don't rule the roost.