Aug Vfact - Aug 2014 - Merc C Class Outsells falcon

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by vztrt

How much money did they just pump into the vehicle that they have to recoup?
How many units do they produce a month?
Considering they pulled the pin means that the more sales they are selling has done nothing.

Unless you are a GM shareholder then it shouldn't matter how much they stand to lose.

It's a win for the buyer.

Imagine how much better the Falcon would be if it had Commodore's development budget.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Iirc the C Class outsold Falcon for the last 12 months...not just Aug. I wonder what the global sales number is for the C Class?

'3.
"Daimler Interim Report Q2 2014
...in the year 2014. After...increase its unit sales also in full-year 2014 and will set...Europe of the C-Class sedan and the...second-quarter unit sales of 418,700...launch of new C-Class World premiere...euros Q1-2 2014 Q1-2 2013...
Find similar contents"
http://www.daimler.com/dccom/search/query

[Bossxr8]

Out of those 400 odd Falcons I reckon about half of them would have been GTF's, going on the 12 or so built a day atm.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

and

The Chrysler 300 sold: 162 cars against its natural competitor Holden Caprice 107

Caradvice had the figures back to front (since corrected)

Chrysler 300 / 107
Holden Caprice / 162

[Hally]

Does anyone know what kind of volume Holden would be producing for export per month?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Hally

Does anyone know what kind of volume Holden would be producing for export per month?

At time of VF release they were talking 5000/year to the US in total. And no-one is talking about the Caprice police car anymore.

[chopstar87]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Caradvice had the figures back to front (since corrected)

Chrysler 300 / 107
Holden Caprice / 162

That makes more sense now... thanks

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Good thing about strong merc sales is more of them available in the second hand car market in years to come. Affordable euro class for the average punter.

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

[cheap]

Honey, I think it's time to buy a new car, you choose:

(a) Commodore
(b) Falcon
(c) Mecedes

I wonder which gets chosen?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by cheap

Honey, I think it's time to buy a new car, you choose:

(a) Commodore
(b) Falcon
(c) Mecedes

I wonder which gets chosen?

Depends on what your needs are! You will be getting a base model 4 banger in a merc for G6ET price.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Depends on what your needs are! You will be getting a base model 4 banger in a merc for G6ET price.

You're applying man logic which seems to be more irrelevant each day

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by cheap

You're applying man logic which seems to be more irrelevant each day

True.

If your after a spacious enough sedan s a run-a-bout then yeah a merc will probably win most times.

Im not a heavy weight but the C class is noticeably smaller on the inside than even my AU..three baby seats long the back is a very tight fit and their legs are close to the front seats.

Also if towing is a requirement then a small 4pot is less desirable...but as you mentioned some of the above doesnt apply to sedans these days..people just get a SUV.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Polyal

True.

If your after a spacious enough sedan s a run-a-bout then yeah a merc will probably win most times.

Im not a heavy weight but the C class is noticeably smaller on the inside than even my AU..three baby seats long the back is a very tight fit and their legs are close to the front seats.

Also if towing is a requirement then a small 4pot is less desirable...but as you mentioned some of the above doesnt apply to sedans these days..people just get a SUV.

True and everything you've said I would put into the man logic category. Unfortunately this tends to get overruled by the shiny Mercedes emblem which our better halves know will make us a more wholesome family unit irrespective of the gutless performance and having the space of a sardine can. Of course once this irrufutably truth comes knocking upon her highness, then approval for the 2nd family vehicle comes into play, i.e. the SUV. Can't see any Falcon or Commodore sales here.

[XWGT]

Ranger almost outsold Commodore

[cheap]

4 of the top 10 are basically derivatives of 4x4 Utes - there'd be a signal for what the market wants.

If I was Ford I'd be looking at bringing in F series, heck anything would be better than bleeding cash running a factory which produces 400 sales for the month. As someone previously said a fair number of those would be GT-F's. Ford will have to accelerate the closure.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by FG50T

Drove into Mercedes two weeks ago to look at something else. They valet parked my car, fed me a snag, gave me a glass of bubbly and sat me in a chair to talk about the new C before I could barely get a word in. They moved me to another office after I said I was looking for ML63 Wouldn't surprise me if they were out of stock already

Yeah well then I got my XR6T the sales person was having a ciggie right in my face & offered me one.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

LOL - the approved pre owned Merc Warranty is probably better than the Ford new car warranty.....
http://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/content/australia/mpc/mpc_australia__website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/service_parts/pre_owned_warranty.html

Judging by the number of 3-4 year old C class mercs i see on the roads I reckon there are plenty of punters out there that would opt for a second hand Merc at a premium price over a second hand Ford or Holden.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

They are in better shape than Prodrive that couldn't even see the point in hanging around until 2016 and walked away from an engine that hadn't paid for itself.

The point being that things aren't good for Commodore, but its all relative. Ford hit this point years ago. Holden is just catching up.

Thats what I was saying that it is all relative. Holden put a lot more money into the new commodore so they need to see more to get money back. What is their break point number. Do they have to sell more to get money back on building cruze here (which has dropped off). They don't sell an SUV (which is more of a cash cow then Falcon) and margins may be tighter.

Prodrive would have left because they knew Ford was pulling the pin down here. So what development did they have left to justify going on?

Is 2500 units a month enough to keep going. How much is it costing Holden to sell each unit with advertising, free servicing, extended warranty?

Ford only builds 83 cars a day of Falcon, ute and Terri. You cant sell stock you don't have. Are Holden selling all their stock or is their inventory getting bigger and bigger then acceptable levels.

I don't know what Holdens position is and I don't pretend to. Maybe you work for them but there is more to profit then sales numbers and Holden are working with a new model.

Ford probably aren't making money but they're also not sooking to the government for more money to keep going till close. Expecting money from the government is not a good business model by the way.

[chopstar87]

Below is a link to article from autoblog.. where it shows the car sales for the month of Aug for USA.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/03/a...y-the-numbers/

It really shows how small of an impact the sales of the local GM cars and Fords cars would have on the companies.

Ford US sold 221373 cars in Aug in the US. Falcon would equal 0.19% of these sales.
GM sold 272423 cars in Aug in the US. Commodore would equal 0.86% of these sales.

this is Why GM/Holden and Ford (both American Companies) don't care about building cars in Australia any more, we aren't even 1% of their sales.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

LOL - the approved pre owned Merc Warranty is probably better than the Ford new car warranty.....
http://www.mercedes-benz.com.au/content/australia/mpc/mpc_australia__website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/service_parts/pre_owned_warranty.html

Two years?
So you get raped from buying at an MB dealer used lot.
Then get raped from servicing the thing religiously, no doubt at a dealer.
And find out that what is common to give dramas on these Euros (diesel particulate filters - $$$, glow plugs, and gaskets etc) aren't covered. Real piece of mind.
That's not taking into account the poor bastards who end up owning them 5 years down the track. Mechanical insurance?... who can be f. with that on a 5-10 y/o car just to say you have a German Camry.
There is a reason why the value of these things drop like a rock when they get out of warranty.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

(diesel particulate filters - $$$, glow plugs, and gaskets etc) aren't covered. Real piece of mind.

DPFs are an issue on any diesel, not just Euro ones lol.

Crap idea.

Anything that meets Euro V will have one and some Euro IV cars do too.

As much as I love diesel if my car had a DPF I'd be gutting it right away.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by smoo

Two years?
So you get raped from buying at an MB dealer used lot.
Then get raped from servicing the thing religiously, no doubt at a dealer.
And find out that what is common to give dramas on these Euros (diesel particulate filters - $$$, glow plugs, and gaskets etc) aren't covered. Real piece of mind.
That's not taking into account the poor bastards who end up owning them 5 years down the track. Mechanical insurance?... who can be f. with that on a 5-10 y/o car just to say you have a German Camry.
There is a reason why the value of these things drop like a rock when they get out of warranty.

Remind me again - how much is a 5 year old G6E or G6ET worth in relation to its RRP ? Is FORD somehow immune to depreciation ??
Not all the C class merc sales are diesel - plenty of petrol out there.
As for getting raped at an MB dealer - much lols - when was the last time you dealt with a Ford Dealer for warranty or service. In fact - much of the negative Falcon sentiment comes from the after sales service that Fraud provide. As for a German Camry - have you sat in or driven in a C Class ? They arent a bad place to sit in as a comparison to an up spec Falc or Commodore.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Remind me again - how much is a 5 year old G6E or G6ET worth in relation to its RRP ? Is FORD somehow immune to depreciation ??
Not all the C class merc sales are diesel - plenty of petrol out there.
As for getting raped at an MB dealer - much lols - when was the last time you dealt with a Ford Dealer for warranty or service. In fact - much of the negative Falcon sentiment comes from the after sales service that Fraud provide. As for a German Camry - have you sat in or driven in a C Class ? They arent a bad place to sit in as a comparison to an up spec Falc or Commodore.

Have you been to the UK or Europe? Did you catch a taxi?
German Camry was probably been generous, I should have said German Corolla.
Yes I've seen the new range of MB/BMW, beautiful cars, would not want to own one.
Have you compared the price of say a 5 y/o Mazda3 or Corolla v a 3 series or C Class? How's that for depreciation...
I nearly bought a W211 E55. 2004. Until I read what goes wrong with them and what is expected to be replaced at the 10 year mark. For the same price I'd get a tidy BA GT or VZ Clubsport... Euro depreciation. Not disputing what is a better car. The market pricing reflects what is a better buy.
E60 530/545 or W211 E350/500 are no more expensive than tidy VZ Calais/BF Fairmont Ghia. Again, no arguments as to what is going to be a better buy.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by smoo

Have you been to the UK or Europe? Did you catch a taxi?
German Camry was probably been generous, I should have said German Corolla.

Yes I’ve been there and the cars in most cases are purpose built Taxi spec with no relevance to the standard kit the Aussie versions have.

It also proves how reliable they are to be considered as a high workload Taxis.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by smoo

Have you been to the UK or Europe? Did you catch a taxi?
German Camry was probably been generous, I should have said German Corolla.
.

Aww - c'mon. Dont resort to TAXI stuff now
Any model that is a TAXI will end up being a hack - no matter what brand , no matter what country. It doesnt add any weight or relevance to the sales argument in Australia. The new C Class variants will be a tour de force and will likely knock the 3 series of its EURO sales perch in AUS,. FWIW , if the sales history is anything to go by - the petrol model will easily still be the biggest seller.
Anyways - we move on.........

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

At time of VF release they were talking 5000/year to the US in total. And no-one is talking about the Caprice police car anymore.

That figure was dropped to about 2000 a year. They really export bugger all to the US.

Originally Posted by cheap

4 of the top 10 are basically derivatives of 4x4 Utes - there'd be a signal for what the market wants.

If I was Ford I'd be looking at bringing in F series, heck anything would be better than bleeding cash running a factory which produces 400 sales for the month. As someone previously said a fair number of those would be GT-F's. Ford will have to accelerate the closure.

400 Falcon's, you have to add ute and Territory on top of that.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That figure was dropped to about 2000 a year. They really export bugger all to the US....

SS volume limited

So far, sales have been positive in lieu of being artificially low, reflected by General Motors' importation targets of between 3,000 and 5,000 units annually. As of April 2014, Chevrolet has sold 1,148 SS models on the year, which is consistent with the automaker's target.

"Overall we are very pleased," commented Todd Christensen, Chevrolet Performance Car Marketing Manager. "Feedback from consumers so far indicates they love the car. Media reaction overall has been really favorable, and sales are right on track with our expectation."

Compared to its stablemates, the SS is Chevrolet's lowest selling 2014 model, and comes just in front of the similarly-niche Cadillac ELR in terms of total sales. But what the sales figures don't account for is the vehicle's brand ambitions. http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-...nt/2000010802/

[Bossxr8]

Ok, about 3000. Couldn't quite remember if it was 2 or 3 thousand.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are you serious... Who in their right mind would own one out of warranty.
They'd have more money (or c/c limit or over draft) than sense.

You're assuming that a Euro car out of warranty will have problems that will cost an arm and a leg to fix. That is not necessarily correct. It is impossible to predict the reliability of cars that have not been on the market for long. Basing this on past performance is not assumes that the manufacturer don't learn their lessons and won't improve from generation to generation. That is simply absurd.

Originally Posted by smoo

Two years?
So you get raped from buying at an MB dealer used lot.
Then get raped from servicing the thing religiously, no doubt at a dealer.
And find out that what is common to give dramas on these Euros (diesel particulate filters - $$$, glow plugs, and gaskets etc) aren't covered. Real piece of mind.

Two years for pre-owned. Does Ford offer any warranty above and beyond the new car warranty for pre-owned cars?

In any event, people who buy these cars expect to pay more. If they're rich enough to afford a Mercedes, they're rich enough to afford to keep it maintained with genuine parts from a Mercedes dealer. Arguing that people are being "raped" by Mercedes is a somewhat cynical view - for many who buy premium Euro brands, money is not a factor.

Originally Posted by smoo

That's not taking into account the poor bastards who end up owning them 5 years down the track. Mechanical insurance?... who can be f. with that on a 5-10 y/o car just to say you have a German Camry.
There is a reason why the value of these things drop like a rock when they get out of warranty.

Nothing lasts forever. Cars wear out over time and use. Having problems develop after about 5 years isn't exclusive to European cars.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by cheap

True and everything you've said I would put into the man logic category. Unfortunately this tends to get overruled by the shiny Mercedes emblem which our better halves know will make us a more wholesome family unit irrespective of the gutless performance and having the space of a sardine can. Of course once this irrufutably truth comes knocking upon her highness, then approval for the 2nd family vehicle comes into play, i.e. the SUV. Can't see any Falcon or Commodore sales here.

I'm not sure if you are just writing a comment or a multi part documentary on the car Australian car scene, but you are so right either way.