April 2015 vfacts - Commodore 6th, Falcon nowhere

[vztrt]

So Falcon 446. We have Terri and ute numbers?

[XR Martin]

Mazda 6 doesnt sell any better than a Falcon.
Camry is an exception due to fleets.
Half of Commodore sales are V8

The others are SUVs - which are obviously all the rage at the moment.

[vbvbvb088]

Trivia question.... which model/year / month took XE Falcon from the Commodore briefly from Number One?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by vbvbvb088

Trivia question.... which model/year / month took XE Falcon from the Commodore briefly from Number One?

Is that " briefly number one from the Commodore" ?

[Yaw]

I want to offer a personal Opinion.

Australia has for a while now had a love of the SUV market, Pretty much since 2001.
I for one Went from a 4 door sedan to A Ford Escape, Then in 2007 I purchased a New Territory. In the next 6 months or so I am looking for a new car. I am heavily leaning towards a Dual Cab Ford Ranger.

Now seeing the Ranger has overtaken the commodore, is it possible that like me people have now had and seen the much more versatility of a large SUV, they now crave more. My way of thinking with the Ranger is, I am not a 4WD nut, in fact will probably not go off road, but I hate towing trailers (I can't reverse them for nuts) The obvious answer is the Dual Cab ute?

[701let]

Originally Posted by Yaw

I want to offer a personal Opinion.

Australia has for a while now had a love of the SUV market, Pretty much since 2001.
I for one Went from a 4 door sedan to A Ford Escape, Then in 2007 I purchased a New Territory. In the next 6 months or so I am looking for a new car. I am heavily leaning towards a Dual Cab Ford Ranger.

Now seeing the Ranger has overtaken the commodore, is it possible that like me people have now had and seen the much more versatility of a large SUV, they now crave more. My way of thinking with the Ranger is, I am not a 4WD nut, in fact will probably not go off road, but I hate towing trailers (I can't reverse them for nuts) The obvious answer is the Dual Cab ute?

not to go too far off topic but be aware that the usable space in a dual cab ute isn't very usable.. and I'm not just talking about the ranger. you can fit far more in a trailer. you would probably end up towing a trailer in the ute anyway. In case that is the main reason you are thinking of going the dual cab option. off road driving is another matter but as you said that's not what you will be doing anyway

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by 701let

not to go too far off topic but be aware that the usable space in a dual cab ute isn't very usable.. and I'm not just talking about the ranger. you can fit far more in a trailer. you would probably end up towing a trailer in the ute anyway. In case that is the main reason you are thinking of going the dual cab option. off road driving is another matter but as you said that's not what you will be doing anyway

My use of a trailer is limited to dump trips and occasional moving large items. or bringing home things from Bunning's. So the useable space is not a big issue for me. Its just the versatility of being able to all of what I can do.

This one is purely personal too, I like being in a higher vehicle.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by 701let

not to go too far off topic but be aware that the usable space in a dual cab ute isn't very usable.. and I'm not just talking about the ranger. you can fit far more in a trailer. you would probably end up towing a trailer in the ute anyway. In case that is the main reason you are thinking of going the dual cab option. off road driving is another matter but as you said that's not what you will be doing anyway

Sorry for dragging this further ,
if it's to replace a territory, the space is a massive increase, I tend to use my Ranger (with a canopy) floor area about 1200x1500, more than our territory, which is about 1200x900, bikes fridge etc etc fit easily.

[russellw]

The graphical stats for the month of April are now both uploaded into the Tech Portal.

April Sales Stats

April Supplementary Stats

Cheers
Russ

[new2ford]

Tatra is taken - it's a separate entity, a truck manufacturer. It was never part of Skoda, in fact a rival.

The funny thing in the sales rooms here, the sales staff keep telling you that Skodas are "German" and really VWs. The snob value of the VW badge must be huge in Australia. I just reply that they've just lost a Skoda sale by telling me that and that I regard VW as unreliable junk.

In the service department on the other hand they tell me that the VWs are the ones that are brought in behind a tow truck. The Fords and Skodas don't have issues of that extent.

I really hope Skoda gets more independence it deserves. Problem with that new Superb though, from a Ford point of view, is that it will be a dangerous rival to Mondeo.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Tatra is taken - it's a separate entity, a truck manufacturer. It was never part of Skoda, in fact a rival.

The funny thing in the sales rooms here, the sales staff keep telling you that Skodas are "German" and really VWs. The snob value of the VW badge must be huge in Australia. I just reply that they've just lost a Skoda sale by telling me that and that I regard VW as unreliable junk.

In the service department on the other hand they tell me that the VWs are the ones that are brought in behind a tow truck. The Fords and Skodas don't have issues of that extent.

I really hope Skoda gets more independence it deserves. Problem with that new Superb though, from a Ford point of view, is that it will be a dangerous rival to Mondeo.

VW are now snob value now, are they.

When I think of VW I think of beetle and combi good cars for the poor.
Sure they are much better car today.

I think the German cars are looked up to because they come from a place where people can drive 250 KM/H and the cars are made to that sort of expectation and when you read the German test driving reporting you realise that someone has the capacity to truly put forward it's total ability's, not just some dopy Aussie drongo's half **** opinion that only cover what some new age metro dude wants to see or your Grandma point of view.

I don't think the majority of people want to drive a little 4 cyl in Australia but they are forced to, or it's more of just a trend in some way.

Old mate up the road thinks it's real funny that I drive a V8, he can't get his head around why I do. he is just an idiot, why would I 'want' to drive just rubbish un inspiring gutless pile of junk.

A lot of people only want cheap transport and would not know any better nor do they care less. if it was up to people like that, we would still be driving FJ Holden's around nowadays.

[minheim]

Originally Posted by castellan

.....
I don't think the majority of people want to drive a little 4 cyl in Australia but they are forced to, or it's more of just a trend in some way.

Old mate up the road thinks it's real funny that I drive a V8, he can't get his head around why I do. he is just an idiot, why would I 'want' to drive just rubbish un inspiring gutless pile of junk.

A lot of people only want cheap transport and would not know any better nor do they care less. if it was up to people like that, we would still be driving FJ Holden's around nowadays.

People aren't forced to drive 4 cylinders; they choose to. They may want economy or don't need the extra power of a bigger engine. Many 4 cylinders now produce more than adequate power for many people's needs and interior wise are not that much smaller than what were full size cars in years gone by. You can even buy a 4 cylinder falcon which many say is a better car than the traditional six it sells alongside. Imports are what made the local manufacturers actually add basic comfort features many decades ago and which have forced technological advance these days. Without import competition we still be "driving HR and XRs". These days the world is your oyster whether you want power, economy, size or a mixture and you need scale to compete in it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by minheim

Imports are what made the local manufacturers actually add basic comfort features many decades ago and which have forced technological advance these days.

probably a good point, although i don't think its fair to say that the aussie made cars wouldn't have gone in that direction without the competition. the outside competition probably did force the issue somewhat.

i think it was true of all manufacturers back then. if you wanted premium features, you had to buy the larger models. a merc 180e was a pretty basic car, but if you paid the extra for a 420sel for example, you got a lot more for your money.

now manufacturers are loading all the cars up with features, regardless of where they sit in the company pecking order. small car buyers are treated the same as large car buyers and suv buyers.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by prydey

probably a good point, although i don't think its fair to say that the aussie made cars wouldn't have gone in that direction without the competition. the outside competition probably did force the issue somewhat.

i think it was true of all manufacturers back then. if you wanted premium features, you had to buy the larger models. a merc 180e was a pretty basic car, but if you paid the extra for a 420sel for example, you got a lot more for your money.

now manufacturers are loading all the cars up with features, regardless of where they sit in the company pecking order. small car buyers are treated the same as large car buyers and suv buyers.

Very true.
It used to take between 5 and 10 years before innovations that would debut on a S-Class to pass down to the C-Class.

In the last round of refreshes for those two models, it took less than 12 months.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by minheim

People aren't forced to drive 4 cylinders; they choose to. They may want economy or don't need the extra power of a bigger engine. Many 4 cylinders now produce more than adequate power for many people's needs and interior wise are not that much smaller than what were full size cars in years gone by. You can even buy a 4 cylinder falcon which many say is a better car than the traditional six it sells alongside. Imports are what made the local manufacturers actually add basic comfort features many decades ago and which have forced technological advance these days. Without import competition we still be "driving HR and XRs". These days the world is your oyster whether you want power, economy, size or a mixture and you need scale to compete in it.

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

dude, the "zoom zoom" adverts make em think they've got 1000hp

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.
Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?
Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

Eh? That logic could apply to any number of cylinders. Are you saying all V8s are good cars?
I can think of a number of 4cyl and 6 cyl cars I would drive to Cairns.
A hint of a few and only from Ford:
- EcoBoost Mondeo and Falcon
- Ford Focus (preference would be ST)
- Ford Fiesta (again my preference would be ST)
- Ford Ranger (any)
- Ford Falcon (preference G6E(T))
- Ford Territory

All are capable of transporting me to Cairns in comfort and ease and no v8 in sight.
You need to remember that back in the hey day people drove and not flew to these remote places in cars that were rubbish on the road, lacked the comfort and had to deal with terrible roads. Adding to this many of the V8s in the past had the same power some 4 cyl and 6 cyl cars have now. If i had the choice of car with a 6 it'd be a Porsche Cayman GTS or GT4.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by castellan

Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

.

Question: is this comment for real (which is beyond frightening) or are you being sarcastic?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by castellan

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.

whilst your whole post is a bit neanderthal, its funny you still think cylinder count is an important factor.

just out of curiosity, what is your current car?

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by castellan

I would not say it's imports that forced technological advances, it's the people who don't know any better, that are the problem mainly.

It's been going on for years, the Japanese in the 60's/70's where coming out with standard heaters, push button radios, bucket seats/floor shift as standard and that forced the big 3 here to follow suit.

Look at the VB commodore or even the first RTS ?
Now why did that come about ?

RTS was nothing more than marketing, just had different suspension settings.

Now we have rubbish like ABS, no one needs ABS unless one is just an idiot. sure there is a lot of idiots and ABS help idiot drivers, it can not help a good driver at all.

I'd say most drivers are ok but in a panic situation, will simply lean on the brakes hard as a normal reaction, therefore ABS is of benefit as is stability control and air bags as a supplementary device. A good driver (very subjective) will at the very least, be helped by that not so good drivers ABS functioning in an accident with them.

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

There are heaps of good 4/6 cylinder cars and are extremely good transport!! Then there are some great ones too, exactly the same applies to V8's.

[Express]

Originally Posted by castellan

No one who is truly into cars would want a 4cyl or a 6cyl really now would they, sure some and I say only some 4 and 6 are good cars, the rest are just rubbish transport.
Some dude comes and says do you want to drive to Cains and then to Melbourne I can't think of a 4 cyl or 6 cyl car that I would love to do it in apart from a BMW M3.

It must be a BMW thing though honestly there are others.

I’m a V8 man through and through, they are the only type of cars I’m really interested in but my wife’s 135i twin turbo 3 litre in-line 6 is a real hoot to drive.

It's our main long distance hauler and I love the feel of it.

And it’ll scare the pants off the V8’s in the twisties and isn’t shy to stretch its legs in the straights.

When that second turbo cuts in, ye-ha.





As far as ABS goes, I'm from the old school world and seen what a brake lockup can do.

Give me all the active and passive safety there is. Anything that may help save my family's lives is a no brainer for me.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by castellan

I think the German cars are looked up to because they come from a place where people can drive 250 KM/H and the cars are made to that sort of expectation

Any car of any size nowadays is designed to cruise comfortably at least at 160 km/h or more. Experience being overtaken by little buzzboxes at this speed on European motorways! It's just that we never get to experience that in nanny country here - we hardly get past idling speed here before the blue lights start flashing!

My German friend who works as a quality engineer over there says Germans are very good at producing expensive junk and people fall for it because its German. Look where German marques sit in this list (excepting the one at no. 7!):

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

German cars are nice to drive though!

[Sprintey]

Russelw that is some excellent research and reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if FOA, or any of the other autosellers in Australia for that matter, are members just to read your data.

Cheers!

[Sprintey]

Goodness me, those volume charts of Fiesta (from mid 2011), Focus (from mid 2013) and Mondeo (from 2011) have fallen off a cliff. (I know there's a new model coming for the latter.) 44 cars?

Wheras everyone has picked the decade long fall of large cars, this has happened relatively recently. It can't be the dual clutch autos, because VW is gaining sales despite it's DSG. Falcon and ute were 711, Territory 802, and these three combined were only 744.

What has happened to Ford's smaller passenger cars? They have been advertised, too. They are better than the sales suggest - for one, like the Territory they are among the best steers in their classes.

[SumoDog68]

I rode in T148 as a kid , V8 air cooled truck ,backbone chassis and sounds like nothing else on the road :-) .
In reality not many people know anything about Skoda so it was probably easier to get some recognition through VW connection.

[new2ford]

Tatra trucks are still sold in Australia to the mining industry.

We'd better terminate this conversation before we're asked to start a separate thread ;)

[XR Martin]

Since we're talking about VAG... sat in a $45k Passat today and I thought these things were supposed to be the pinnacle of interior design and quality. If people whinge about the Falcon's seat being too high then they should get in a Passat - its worse.
Quite a few cheap interior bits here and there also.

[MrZ]

russellw - in your April sales statistics you state "There were no Ford models inside the Top 20". I'm not sure where you got this idea. The Ranger was in 5th place.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by MrZ

russellw - in your April sales statistics you state "There were no Ford models inside the Top 20". I'm not sure where you got this idea. The Ranger was in 5th place.

.. and if you read it properly you would note that it excludes commercial vehicles otherwise a good portion of the top 20 would be filled with them.

Russ

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by russellw

.. and if you read it properly you would note that it excludes commercial vehicles otherwise a good portion of the top 20 would be filled with them.

Russ

Fair enough, but why don't you count commercial vehicles?