Vfacts march 2022

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

So you think car companies have bought the Oil industry playbook and deliberately holding back supply to keep prices up....

Why not, its working isnt it?

No more discounting, no need to have stock sitting on the forecourt, no need to keep it clean.
Lets be honest, the idea of ordering your car online and having it delivered minus the dealership experience has been a concept bandied about quite a bit in recent years.
What people are doing now is essentially that only they're still subject to the sycophant salesmen.
No demo drives, no eyes on the product, its basically an online order with a salesman clicking the mouse button for you and for the wait you get to pay more.

But hey, go your hardest if its your thing.

[Sprintey]

Tesla being officially on the board with 3067 is massive, great result for them.

And - a sedan back in the top 10 - who would've ever thought?!

Originally Posted by kypez

Ford have a product that only appeals to those who are tax minimizing...

I do wonder what the sales of these things would be without the tax writeoffs...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Why not, its working isnt it?

No more discounting, no need to have stock sitting on the forecourt, no need to keep it clean.
Lets be honest, the idea of ordering your car online and having it delivered minus the dealership experience has been a concept bandied about quite a bit in recent years.
What people are doing now is essentially that only they're still subject to the sycophant salesmen.
No demo drives, no eyes on the product, its basically an online order with a salesman clicking the mouse button for you and for the wait you get to pay more.

But hey, go your hardest if its your thing.

...because it requires every brand to do the same thing and hold back supply otherwise those that don't will grab up all the customers...and in case you're interested Ford Aust has deliberately held back Focus ST builds because the larger Sync 4 touchscreen comes from parts sourced from Ukraine..while Ford Europe has decided to build ST's with the smaller screen...

What is it with you and Vfacts posts..it's like clockwork...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

So you think car companies have bought the Oil industry playbook and deliberately holding back supply to keep prices up....

Yes and no,
Ford has spoken in the US regarding more just in time customer ordering and less dealer stock built to inventory.
Current shortages are killing them with so many incomplete builds, lots of F150s at dealerships requiring chips
before delivery is completed, frustrating waiting for 100k chip deliveries to come by ship and then start all over again.

Switch to Australia, sure Bent sees loads of vehicles at holding yards, most are probably already sold and those
vehicles at dealers are probably the only ones they have as demos, not actually much for walk ins to buy ATM.
I suspect the truth is somewhere in between with supply or in our case controlled / rationed delivery that looks
like tighter inventories with zero floor stock and little chance of end of model run out discounts and besides,
no one has this anymore, well it seems that way…


With Ranger sales, I’d imagine that Thailand has a pretty big backlog of orders to fill as well,
so could be were a lot of production is going at the moment, loads of outstanding orders there?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

...because it requires every brand to do the same thing and hold back supply otherwise those that don't will grab up all the customers...and in case you're interested Ford Aust has deliberately held back Focus ST builds because the larger Sync 4 touchscreen comes from parts sourced from Ukraine..while Ford Europe has decided to build ST's with the smaller screen...

What is it with you and Vfacts posts..it's like clockwork...

You do realise that many of the biggest dealership networks of multiple brands are owned by a the same people dont you?
Numbers show most brands are back to pre chip shortage figures so its not about withholding as such, more about the public perception and how its being used to their advantage.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Great opportunity to be first here. No reasonably priced EV SUV or dual cab outside of MG for SUV. Once the model Y hits the market, you might as well give up that segment.

Yeah, I wonder about that. This is going to be a huge shift, and if someone else comes in and steals that segment, no matter how new the brand, I don't think decades of history will amount to much. Huge changes ahead. There might be a bit of this with Jag just going full electric within a couple of years - launch early and hope to be around afterward.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes and no,
I suspect the truth is somewhere in between with supply or in our case controlled / rationed delivery that
that approximates tighter inventories with zero chance of end of model run out discounts - no one has this anymore.

Exactly, as I said, there was a chip shortage which saw inventory dry up long ago and with it the discounting you saw with yards full of ready to deliver stock.
The numbers show the stock is there, they just aren't showing it like they did before and are profiting from it, where's the incentive to return to the old model when this one is more profitable.
They charge more and spend less, win win.

[jpd80]

Could also be shipping, if Ford hasn’t increased shipping volume/frequency, that would explain why everyone else
is back to normal and Ford didn’t surge with them last month…
Not an excuse by the way, just looking at things other than chip shortages that might explain non-surge at Ford.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Exactly, as I said, there was a chip shortage which saw inventory dry up long ago and with it the discounting you saw with yards full of ready to deliver stock.
The numbers show the stock is there, they just aren't showing it like they did before and are profiting from it, where's the incentive to return to the old model when this one is more profitable.
They charge more and spend less, win win.

The numbers do not show stock. The numbers show deliveries. There is every chance that what comes off the ships has already been allocated and therefore is not in fact stock.

[HSVKILLA]

over 2000 rangers were sold here in Nz(march).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Could also be shipping, if Ford hasn’t increased shipping volume/frequency, that would explain why everyone else
is back to normal and Ford didn’t surge with them last month…
Not an excuse by the way, just looking at things other than chip shortages that might explain non-surge at Ford.

Perhaps they didnt get the memo..

I dont think its anything other than Ford buyers waiting for Ranger and Everest, theres quite a bit of PX3 stock around if you look, just not selling as quick now while punters hold out.

[DTFRMONT]

Got the job of looking at cars for my Auntie, changeover time for her. She's a nun & the order changes over their cars at 90,000kms. She currently drives a Corolla, she's not keen on a Yaris. We suggested a Kia Stonic. Local Kia dealer had a couple available for May delivery (this was a few weeks back). Went to the Toyota dealer to check out a Yaris Cross for comparison. Nothing in the passenger range on show, only Hiluxes or Cruisers on show. Was told 6-12 month wait for anything in the Yaris/Corolla/Camry ranges. Checked out the Ford Puma, nice but a little more than what the budget allowed. But no issues with availability from Ford. A friend has just signed a contract for a Kia Seltos. Was told she'll be lucky if she gets it this side of Christmas. Interesting times..

With brands such as Jag going fully EV, don't be suprised if all the Euro brands go full EV, or at least EV/hybrid in the next couple of years, with the push to wean Europe off Russian oil.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Tesla being officially on the board with 3067 is massive, great result for them.

And - a sedan back in the top 10 - who would've ever thought?!






I do wonder what the sales of these things would be without the tax writeoffs...

But no one wants sedans...............

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

But no one wants sedans...............

They don't. If the Tesla's were ICE no one would buy them either.

They only sell because they are pretty much the only realistic EV purchase you can get. And the Tesla cult.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Could also be shipping, if Ford hasn’t increased shipping volume/frequency, that would explain why everyone else
is back to normal and Ford didn’t surge with them last month…
Not an excuse by the way, just looking at things other than chip shortages that might explain non-surge at Ford.

Shipping costs have shot up - seen the price of a container lately?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Shipping costs have shot up - seen the price of a container lately?

Everything is going up, go back to when that ship got stuck in the Seuz, lead times still haven't recovered

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Could also be shipping, if Ford hasn’t increased shipping volume/frequency, that would explain why everyone else
is back to normal and Ford didn’t surge with them last month…
Not an excuse by the way, just looking at things other than chip shortages that might explain non-surge at Ford.

Originally Posted by Wretched

Shipping costs have shot up - seen the price of a container lately?

Pardon my ignorance here. I thought that while Container ships are through the roof, the ones used to transport cars are typically RORO types that aren't used for containers and thus wouldn't be as affected my increase in shipping costs; they're a very specific type of boat.

Not sure if they can be retrofitted for the task though.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

But no one wants sedans...............

Such is the power of #electricsedanlyfe, Kunta Kinte.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They don't. If the Tesla's were ICE no one would buy them either.

They only sell because they are pretty much the only realistic EV purchase you can get. And the Tesla cult.

It's going to be very interesting if the Model Y arrives in decent numbers - at 70+K for the entry, I can think there will be a stampede on them and it might just be the volume SUV before too long.

70K isn't that expensive, given all the inflation going on - our mid spec, optioned AWD Terry was 50+K 15 years ago for eg. If you're early 30's, good job, with partner and kids, mortgage, can salary sacrifice, why not add that into your life? Means no fuel bill if you set the house up right. I can see them selling themselves silly.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

If you're early 30's, good job, with partner and kids, mortgage, can salary sacrifice, why not add that into your life?

Easy to say while your mortgage rate is <3%. What about when its >5%? Predictions that it will rise that much in the next 12-18 months. You'd be mad to saddle yourself with a 70k debt now if you're only just staying on top of the mortgage.

[hayseed]

it's a good result for Tesla, Full marks to them.. However..
They're a long way from being a a mainstream contender (as is the EV segment).....!!

so far this year 6752 electric vehicles have been reported as sold in Australia, or 2.6 per cent of the 262,436 new motor vehicles delivered in the first three months of 2022.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts...ts-the-brakes/

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by b0son

Easy to say while your mortgage rate is <3%. What about when its >5%? Predictions that it will rise that much in the next 12-18 months. You'd be mad to saddle yourself with a 70k debt now if you're only just staying on top of the mortgage.

I completely agree with you, and it's been astounding to see just how long the splurge has gone on.

https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-...es-five-things

I can see the interest rate rises coming; in fact savers have been killed trying to keep up with the debt people. It would be great to have a decent interest rate for savings again. I'd argue it's not the 70K car that would kill the mortgagee, it's the 800K house... but then the fingers have been on the scales in their favour for so long that houses have got to crazy levels, like 800K...

(It's funny I was going to link the best speech from 'Margin Call' - youtube has taken it down, just as rates are rising lol! )

Will Emerson:

"Jesus, Seth. Listen, if you really wanna do this with your life you have to believe you're necessary and you are. People wanna live like this with their cars and big f***in' houses they can't even pay for, then you're necessary. The only reason they all get to continue living like kings is because we got our fingers on the scales in their favor. I take my hand off and then the whole world gets really f***in' fair really f***in' quickly and nobody actually wants that. They say they do but they don't. They want what we have to give them but they also wanna, you know, play innocent and pretend they have no idea where it came from. Well, that's more hypocrisy than I'm willing to swallow, so f*** 'em. F*** normal people. You know, the funny thing is, tomorrow if all of this goes tits up they're gonna crucify us for being too reckless but if we're wrong, and everything gets back on track? Well then, the same people are gonna laugh till they **** their pants cause we're gonna all look like the biggest pussies God ever let through the door."

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I completely agree with you, and it's been astounding to see just how long the splurge has gone on.

https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-...es-five-things

I can see the interest rate rises coming; in fact savers have been killed trying to keep up with the debt people. It would be great to have a decent interest rate for savings again. I'd argue it's not the 70K car that would kill the mortgagee, it's the 800K house... but then the fingers have been on the scales in their favour for so long that houses have got to crazy levels, like 800K...

(It's funny I was going to link the best speech from 'Margin Call' - youtube has taken it down, just as rates are rising lol! )

Will Emerson:

"Jesus, Seth. Listen, if you really wanna do this with your life you have to believe you're necessary and you are. People wanna live like this with their cars and big f***in' houses they can't even pay for, then you're necessary. The only reason they all get to continue living like kings is because we got our fingers on the scales in their favor. I take my hand off and then the whole world gets really f***in' fair really f***in' quickly and nobody actually wants that. They say they do but they don't. They want what we have to give them but they also wanna, you know, play innocent and pretend they have no idea where it came from. Well, that's more hypocrisy than I'm willing to swallow, so f*** 'em. F*** normal people. You know, the funny thing is, tomorrow if all of this goes tits up they're gonna crucify us for being too reckless but if we're wrong, and everything gets back on track? Well then, the same people are gonna laugh till they **** their pants cause we're gonna all look like the biggest pussies God ever let through the door."

Vote 1 Franco Cozzo - bringing back 17% interest rates

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Vote 1 Franco Cozzo - bringing back 17% interest rates

I've kept a Loan Contract from 1990 where I was paying 21%. I knew People who were paying 24%....


All Thanks to an Armani Suit wearing Collector of French Clocks...(Paul Keating for the uninitiated )

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I've kept a Loan Contract from 1990 where I was paying 21%. I knew People who were paying 24%....


All Thanks to an Armani Suit wearing Collector of French Clocks...(Paul Keating for the uninitiated )

Out of curiosity what was the house value?.

Banks are making more today with 3%

for it to go above 10% today would be criminal

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Vote 1 Franco Cozzo - bringing back 17% interest rates

6% would do but +1 vote...

I just want to see a reversion to the mean, so the economic cycle can begin again - this equals more growth, more opportunity for young people

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Perhaps they didnt get the memo..

I dont think its anything other than Ford buyers waiting for Ranger and Everest, theres quite a bit of PX3 stock around if you look, just not selling as quick now while punters hold out.

Just a quick glance, the number is less than 340, so across slightly less than 200 dealers, that’s a bit skinny…
I’ll admit that wherever you drive past a Ford dealership, there’s usually multiple Rangers sitting out front

Bottom line, if you go into Ford now and want to buy a Ranger, I doubt that there’s a flood of cars waiting to be bought…

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just a quick glance, the number is less than 340, so across slightly less than 200 dealers, that’s a bit skinny…
I’ll admit that wherever you drive past a Ford dealership, there’s usually multiple Rangers sitting out front

Bottom line, if you go into Ford now and want to buy a Ranger, I doubt that there’s a flood of cars waiting to be bought…

Its not a good look for a dealership to have no cars, So I'm guessing most of those are not for sale?

[outback_ute]

The Tesla number of 3097 would appear an aberration, compared to 4417 YTD and 12k-odd all last year.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Its not a good look for a dealership to have no cars, So I'm guessing most of those are not for sale?

Probably a mix of some dealer stock and demos, there’s still a ton of vehicles being sold each month
but the absence of end of model discounts is exactly because Ford and others don’t need to.

All brands have worked out that the psychology behind getting us to pay full price is to remove excess stock,
they know most will buy their favourite brand with or without discount, in the old days, the give back was free floor mats.