So your the CEO: what would you change with Falcon?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

UMM the vast majority of the car buying public IS 10min from a servo and ARE in capital suburbs.

The vast majority of the car buying public are also NOT buying Falcons.

Maybe new features might convince them to consider buying a Falcon. After all some of the people who are 10 minutes from a servo in a capital city might just occasionally want to drive further than their local McDonalds car park and visit some part of the 99% of Australia that is NOT in a capital city.

To me and many I know fuel range is important, so much so that I used to carry a 20l jerry can in the boot of my Ghia, GT-P & F6 and had to use it on quite a number of occasions. My datto will do 900km, the FPVs 500-600km on a tank.....300km is a bloody long walk.....

The idea of this thread is to suggest ideas that may increase Falcon sales to people who are not considering Falcon.

Different people want different things. Some might even pay extra for stripes and a plastic snake..........

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

Just going to stray off topic a little bit.....
I have noticed at work that the blokes with the holdens never seem to carry much stuff....their "work" cars are not seeing much work...but the falcons are often towing a trailer, stuff loaded into alloy bars the length of the ute, you know, it's USED for what the bloke bought it for. I find it interesting that plenty of tradies own Holden utes, bought them for work, and don't work with them much.
The IRS in the Holden might be good for power down etc but in terms of doing a hard days work, well...I think one car maker has proven their worth in this area.

You get a nice tax write off having a ute if your a tradie.

Originally Posted by burnz

you know the holden ute has a higher load rateing than the ford..

Can you show me the one ton option in the Commodore ute?

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Give Falcon and Territory the ****. Fully adopt OneFord in Australia sourcing all models from the overseas options. With the manufacturing burden removed, fully concentrate on cleaning up dealer service to customers. Ditch the pointless V8 Supercar support.

Oh man, you're not serious are you? They might as well put a red oval badge with 2 ellipses on the entire range (toyota badge) if they did that.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

all the people saying 'bring back wagon, v8, rtv, etc etc' obviously haven't learned anything from ford's history and would end up sending the company down the gurgler quicker than what some think it is already going.

these types of cars are no longer made because they weren't viable. no one was buying enough of them to make it worth while.

ford are a business. if cars don't make money, there is no point building them. if the falcon doesn't increase in sales, many believe it too will meet its death.

Not necessarily, often in industry profitable lines are cut to enhance short-term quarterly or financial period figures. Lets hypothesize, sales are in a slide and the investment proposal for a FG RTV comes up, say $350,000 to develop the raised suspension, The ceo looks at the current sales of all Falcon sedans and see that they are down, which means a drop in revenue and he will lose his $40,000 quarterly performance bonus for not meeting his revenue/expense KPIs, so what does he do? Cuts or delays the RTV investment, BOOM, he meets his quarterly performance bonus.

Although, now with the production loosing 100 RTV sales a month, he is down on revenue again next quarter, what does he do? Looks at the XR8 investment proposal and delays it and BOOM again he meets his CEO performance targets.

Next time you look at the wagon proposal, 3-400 a month at the moment with a potential upside of 1000 sales a month with an entire FG range offered, hmmm, CUT

But now its a race to the bottom,your down 100 RTV, 100 XR8s and 300-400 wagons a month. But it doesnt matter because due to the high CEO turnover in another 6 months he will be heading Ford Europe or Ford South America, all he has to do is keep cutting costs and investment as sales fall a couple of more quarters and he is home-free.

The idea that some of these variants are being cut because they dont make money is very very niave, if they didnt make money they would of come out and said RTV and XR8 dont make money, instead they initially hinted that RTV would return and the XR8 has been in constant discussion.


In my first career, for a rolling stock manufacturer I was in management accounting, at one point we lost a large tender for a big customer in QLD. What did the CEO do? Cut investment in our lower rolling-resistance techonologies and delay projects in more easier and safer couplings. Because his performance was being measured on profitably - not on the long-term viability. It was slowly the beginning of the end, we started losing sales, so we cut more products, we then had other manufactures overtaking us because of their range and technology... We were a very efficient manufacturer, but we died in the end due to not continuing investment while times were tough because of how management's performance was being measured. I call it 'Death by KPI'.

[Jesmol]

Death by KPI

snip, there's a new one for me.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not necessarily, often in industry profitable lines are cut to enhance short-term quarterly or financial period figures. Lets hypothesize, sales are in a slide and the investment proposal for a FG RTV comes up, say $350,000 to develop the raised suspension, The ceo looks at the current sales of all Falcon sedans and see that they are down, which means a drop in revenue and he will lose his $40,000 quarterly performance bonus for not meeting his revenue/expense KPIs, so what does he do? Cuts or delays the RTV investment, BOOM, he meets his quarterly performance bonus.

Although, now with the production loosing 100 RTV sales a month, he is down on revenue again next quarter, what does he do? Looks at the XR8 investment proposal and delays it and BOOM again he meets his CEO performance targets.

Next time you look at the wagon proposal, 3-400 a month at the moment with a potential upside of 1000 sales a month with an entire FG range offered, hmmm, CUT

But now its a race to the bottom,your down 100 RTV, 100 XR8s and 300-400 wagons a month. But it doesnt matter because due to the high CEO turnover in another 6 months he will be heading Ford Europe or Ford South America, all he has to do is keep cutting costs and investment as sales fall a couple of more quarters and he is home-free.

The idea that some of these variants are being cut because they dont make money is very very niave, if they didnt make money they would of come out and said RTV and XR8 dont make money, instead they initially hinted that RTV would return and the XR8 has been in constant discussion.


In my first career, for a rolling stock manufacturer I was in management accounting, at one point we lost a large tender for a big customer in QLD. What did the CEO do? Cut investment in our lower rolling-resistance techonologies and delay projects in more easier and safer couplings. Because his performance was being measured on profitably - not on the long-term viability. It was slowly the beginning of the end, we started losing sales, so we cut more products, we then had other manufactures overtaking us because of their range and technology... We were a very efficient manufacturer, but we died in the end due to not continuing investment while times were tough because of how management's performance was being measured. I call it 'Death by KPI'.

Top post.
Cannot disagree.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

The vast majority of the car buying public are also NOT buying Falcons.

Maybe new features might convince them to consider buying a Falcon. After all some of the people who are 10 minutes from a servo in a capital city might just occasionally want to drive further than their local McDonalds car park and visit some part of the 99% of Australia that is NOT in a capital city.

To me and many I know fuel range is important, so much so that I used to carry a 20l jerry can in the boot of my Ghia, GT-P & F6 and had to use it on quite a number of occasions. My datto will do 900km, the FPVs 500-600km on a tank.....300km is a bloody long walk.....

The idea of this thread is to suggest ideas that may increase Falcon sales to people who are not considering Falcon.

Different people want different things. Some might even pay extra for stripes and a plastic snake..........

That takes me back to the days when you could get XF with the optional 80 litre fuel tank,
you could overload the tank and get close to 700 km out of it even with the 3-speed auto..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not necessarily, often in industry profitable lines are cut to enhance short-term quarterly or financial period figures. Lets hypothesize, sales are in a slide and the investment proposal for a FG RTV comes up, say $350,000 to develop the raised suspension, The ceo looks at the current sales of all Falcon sedans and see that they are down, which means a drop in revenue and he will lose his $40,000 quarterly performance bonus for not meeting his revenue/expense KPIs, so what does he do? Cuts or delays the RTV investment, BOOM, he meets his quarterly performance bonus.

Although, now with the production loosing 100 RTV sales a month, he is down on revenue again next quarter, what does he do? Looks at the XR8 investment proposal and delays it and BOOM again he meets his CEO performance targets.

Next time you look at the wagon proposal, 3-400 a month at the moment with a potential upside of 1000 sales a month with an entire FG range offered, hmmm, CUT

But now its a race to the bottom,your down 100 RTV, 100 XR8s and 300-400 wagons a month. But it doesnt matter because due to the high CEO turnover in another 6 months he will be heading Ford Europe or Ford South America, all he has to do is keep cutting costs and investment as sales fall a couple of more quarters and he is home-free.

The idea that some of these variants are being cut because they dont make money is very very niave, if they didnt make money they would of come out and said RTV and XR8 dont make money, instead they initially hinted that RTV would return and the XR8 has been in constant discussion.

I suspect that this is how Ford management is slowly removing justification of Falcon variants,
they have substitute products and want to end duplication of designs and expenses.
The best way to do this is to give managers incentives to eliminate or replace products
with newer vehicles made elsewhere in the company ...and pay them well to do it..

To support your theory, Marin Burela looked at V6 replacing I-6 and saw that redundancies
were going to cost more than the importation of V6 would save in company efficiency.
In that case, maintaining the status quo and getting assistance to meet Euro Iv was cheaper.

So what happens if tradies all fall in love with T6 Ranger and ignore Falcon Ute?
Another derivative gone and were down to Falcon / Territory, replaced by Taurus/Explorer?

[stev3n]

Originally Posted by burnz

since the dawn of time the modern motor vehicle has had front springs with a heavy iron sitting on them,
this iron called an engine will sit on those springs for 20+ years, but somehow cant carry a part time load "why"??

you know the holden ute has a higher load rateing than the ford..

Think you will find a base model falcon ute will carry more than base model commodore. Might be different in the XR v SS

[grey_esp]

Originally Posted by prydey

all the people saying 'bring back wagon, v8, rtv, etc etc' obviously haven't learned anything from ford's history and would end up sending the company down the gurgler quicker than what some think it is already going.

these types of cars are no longer made because they weren't viable. no one was buying enough of them to make it worth while.

ford are a business. if cars don't make money, there is no point building them. if the falcon doesn't increase in sales, many believe it too will meet its death.

i think ford should concentrate on pleasing the customers it has got for a while, and then try and entice new customers. no point trying to entice new people in the front door when you left the back door open.

yeah but the reason they became unviable is because less people were buying them and the cost to keep making them was too great yeah? And the reason less people were buying them is bcause they didnt update them to look like the current model. And the reason they cost to much to make is because they didnt update them to look like the current model, and therefore they are munufacturing basically an entirely different car and spares for a couple hundred untis a year. Who wants to buy a car in 2010 thats looks 90% the same as one they bought in 98? In an attemp to save money ford have cost them selves an entire model.


So if they built a wagon that looked like the current model it will A) sell and B) cost less to make because it would share the same platform and 90% of the body as the rest of the series.

As far as RTV is concerned Why not stick the front end out of a terri under the FG cab and have an AWD ute with heavy duty LSD in the back. Ive been to the ford discovery centre and seen the BA they used to develop the terri, shouldn't be too hard to do.

[grey_esp]

So what happens if tradies all fall in love with T6 Ranger and ignore Falcon Ute?
Another derivative gone and were down to Falcon / Territory, replaced by Taurus/Explorer?[/QUOTE]

I think your on the money here, once the ranger comes in and the falcon ute sales slide, they will just cut it too. Again its what like 50% completely different compnents than the sedan, atleast if it was IRS then the drive line would be shared with the sedan and maunfacturing costs would be shared.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Can you show me the one ton option in the Commodore ute?

do i need to??
you make it sound like a heavy duty coil spring can't match a leaf spring.
as i said your motor sits on coils springs full time, un like a part time weight in a ute.

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That takes me back to the days when you could get XF with the optional 80 litre fuel tank,
you could overload the tank and get close to 700 km out of it even with the 3-speed auto..

Where do they fit the fuel tank in the XF? would really need something like this in the BA

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not necessarily, often in industry profitable lines are cut to enhance short-term quarterly or financial period figures. Lets hypothesize, sales are in a slide and the investment proposal for a FG RTV comes up, say $350,000 to develop the raised suspension, The ceo looks at the current sales of all Falcon sedans and see that they are down, which means a drop in revenue and he will lose his $40,000 quarterly performance bonus for not meeting his revenue/expense KPIs, so what does he do? Cuts or delays the RTV investment, BOOM, he meets his quarterly performance bonus.

Although, now with the production loosing 100 RTV sales a month, he is down on revenue again next quarter, what does he do? Looks at the XR8 investment proposal and delays it and BOOM again he meets his CEO performance targets.

Next time you look at the wagon proposal, 3-400 a month at the moment with a potential upside of 1000 sales a month with an entire FG range offered, hmmm, CUT

But now its a race to the bottom,your down 100 RTV, 100 XR8s and 300-400 wagons a month. But it doesnt matter because due to the high CEO turnover in another 6 months he will be heading Ford Europe or Ford South America, all he has to do is keep cutting costs and investment as sales fall a couple of more quarters and he is home-free.

The idea that some of these variants are being cut because they dont make money is very very niave, if they didnt make money they would of come out and said RTV and XR8 dont make money, instead they initially hinted that RTV would return and the XR8 has been in constant discussion.


In my first career, for a rolling stock manufacturer I was in management accounting, at one point we lost a large tender for a big customer in QLD. What did the CEO do? Cut investment in our lower rolling-resistance techonologies and delay projects in more easier and safer couplings. Because his performance was being measured on profitably - not on the long-term viability. It was slowly the beginning of the end, we started losing sales, so we cut more products, we then had other manufactures overtaking us because of their range and technology... We were a very efficient manufacturer, but we died in the end due to not continuing investment while times were tough because of how management's performance was being measured. I call it 'Death by KPI'.

Wagon was dead in 06 and was gonna get canned for the FG. Ford justified its existance until euro 4. The RTV couldn't be justified and was gone with the FG, maybe it was expected to be a much better seller. Every model needs a business case to survive. If something like the wagon kept going it would have been the same as the BFIII but with a euro 4 motor.

Its easy to write things down on what you would like but if its not gonna bring a return on investment then your wasting your time. But I guess its easy to be an expert when whatever happens doesn't effect you.

Originally Posted by burnz

do i need to??
you make it sound like a heavy duty coil spring can't match a leaf spring.
as i said your motor sits on coils springs full time, un like a part time weight in a ute.

It can't if it did you would see Commo utes being used for real work and not show ponies.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by prydey

no one was buying enough of them to make it worth while.

No one was buying them because they were outdated rubbish that effectively harked back to 1998.

Build a modern wagon with all models as the sedans, bet they would sell.

By modern I mean a new full sized (not a Holden sport hatch) FG wagon body with IRS, not some half arsed AU/BF lovechild with leaf springs.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by burnz

do i need to??
you make it sound like a heavy duty coil spring can't match a leaf spring.
as i said your motor sits on coils springs full time, un like a part time weight in a ute.

Maybe his talking about this:

Ford's sophisticated double-wishbone front end is probably still a good bet compared with the Holden's MacPherson strut front end, but at the rear, the story's different. The Falcon's semi-elliptic leaf-sprung live axle will carry more load, but it lacks the refinement and active safety potential of Holden's IRS set-up.

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ch-review-4875


I guess why he asked you to show him.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

No one was buying them because they were outdated rubbish that effectively harked back to 1998.

Build a modern wagon with all models as the sedans, bet they would sell.

By modern I mean a new full sized (not a Holden sport hatch) FG wagon body with IRS, not some half arsed AU/BF lovechild with leaf springs.

so many ostriches who bury their heads in the sand.

back in the eb - el era, when the large car market was strong and falcon was on top (yes thats right, on top), they had a wagon version that had every model variant. you could even have a v8 manual if you wished. they had xr6 (ed and ef), they had fairmont and ghia etc. guess what, they didn't sell. ef xr6 wagon sold 476 units over 2 years production. the ed model was even less. you can't blame outdated designs as they were relatively new.

the AU had a redesigned rear and fairmont model. still couldn't sell them. whilst a small % may want a wagon with the same trim levels as sedan, the facts are that the majority of new wagons sold were for business use and in base trim. that is why even futura was dropped for bf3 as no one was paying the extra for small luxuries. you could also argue that wagon sales were highest toward the end of its life cycle (b series) when it was only offered in base trim.

as for v8, there is a good chance Ford will leave the v8 market to FPV. if they do bring out a v8 model, it will be xr8 only. they won't offer the v8 in any other model. again, they weren't selling. you can dress it up any way you please, but they were offered at a time when sales were healthy and they still weren't selling. maybe people argue that it wasn't a decent v8, but it may also surprise many to know that only a small % of v8 buyers actually care about 0-100 and 1/4 mile times.

if you set up a stalll by the side of the road, and sell bikkies and lemonade, but no one buys the lemonade and all the profits from the bikkies are lost producing the lemonade, would you continue to make it because the bloke down the road makes it and they all buy his so there must be a market for it?? if you stop making lemonade, your business becomes smaller but you start making money. i guess then you upset the guy who sells you the lemons as his market just halved.

i don't think for one second that ford makes any decision as lightly as some pretend they do.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dylancox

Where do they fit the fuel tank in the XF? would really need something like this in the BA

In the centre floor of the boot, the spare wheel was positioned in the side boot well.

[mrbaxr6t]

on a recent trip to melbourne there were very few falcons or commodores (besides taxis) the cars were all euro audi BMW merc saab etc... they were all silver slate grey or white to boot, Ford seems to have lost the market in Melbourne, then you get out of the city and all of a sudden there is falcons and commodores and shock! they are in colors other than the above listed, they are red and blue and green and even orange! the falcon isn't seen as "classy" enough to be driven around the city, perhaps painting it slate grey or silver with a splash of chrome would help?

I think falcon needs to remain RWD with an AWD option bring back the "wagon" but call it an "estate" like the euros, and how about a 2 door, or make the mustang available through dealerships, could you imagine a raged up supercharged mustang that has visited FPV? thing would be absolute horn

the terri isn't selling in the inner suburbs but there are plenty of X5's perhaps working out why this is would help it into this market, or bulk the thing up making it more of an offroader and as such more appropriate to non city dwellers.

and most important of all get an xr6t and the new supercharged GS onto top gear, the publicity "free kick" would be massive and it shows you have faith that the boys on top gear will like the car because it is a great car.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by grey_esp

So what happens if tradies all fall in love with T6 Ranger and ignore Falcon Ute?

I think thats a good thing. Lets be honest here. To me , the falcon ute is a useless proposition here. Apart from the fact it is ugly ( my opinion of course, the tray looks like a tack on) it's handling is not even close to it's siblings (and no competition to the commodore), the ride quality is below it's competitors and the list goes on. All the jurnos agree. Then there is the fact it only has two doors. 1 passenger. I can't see the logic of having a fast ute, if only you and one other person can enjoy it! The there is the new T6 Ranger. Brilliant. 4WD, 4 doors, big payload and will go almost anywhere. Powerful and looks great. Isn't this what ute's are about in 2011?

[tezxr8man]

At the end of the day if we went out and bought a falcon or territory or commodore instead of an imported car, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. its not because they are a bad poor quality car but because there is no pride in what australians can do and and have been doing forever, everything is the same now. nobody goes out and seeks australian made anymore. it's too easy to buy whats in front of you there than buy what's made here
The Government doesn't help matters either, they sign trade agreements with other countries for our minerals which in the end kill off our manufacturing industry because its easy money. But what happens when the mining boom is over???
They help Ford Holden and Toyota with handouts, then kill their market by making it too easy to flood the market with competitors and kill their market share even more

[tezxr8man]

If I was in charge of Ford I'd contact Holden And Toyota and set out to lobby the Government to change import rules and cap them at 10-20% less than where they are now and raise import duties on all cars, not by much but enough to make our three companies more viable and start to get more money for development to make our cars better

[jpd80]

That sounds a lot like stopping people from buying the vehicles they want.
The reason Falcon and Commodore are still in the mid $30Ks is because of competition,
without a free market a basic XR6 would be in the mid to high $40k area and very few
people would want to pay that much for them, look at the drop off for XR6T and G6ET,
last year they sold 1,777 and 1073 vehicles respectively..

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by prydey

so many ostriches who bury their heads in the sand.

back in the eb - el era, when the large car market was strong and falcon was on top (yes thats right, on top), they had a wagon version that had every model variant. you could even have a v8 manual if you wished. they had xr6 (ed and ef), they had fairmont and ghia etc. guess what, they didn't sell. ef xr6 wagon sold 476 units over 2 years production. the ed model was even less. you can't blame outdated designs as they were relatively new.

the AU had a redesigned rear and fairmont model. still couldn't sell them. whilst a small % may want a wagon with the same trim levels as sedan, the facts are that the majority of new wagons sold were for business use and in base trim. that is why even futura was dropped for bf3 as no one was paying the extra for small luxuries. you could also argue that wagon sales were highest toward the end of its life cycle (b series) when it was only offered in base trim.

I'm not talking about EF/EL era, I'm talking about BA/BF/FG era. Fact is Ford abandoned the wagon, it was left to waste away to nothing. It was a dinosaur, a big ugly and archaic p.o.s. suitable only for fleets.
This is why it didn't sell.

Not everyone wants a suv (Territory)

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

I'm not talking about EF/EL era, I'm talking about BA/BF/FG era. Fact is Ford abandoned the wagon, it was left to waste away to nothing. It was a dinosaur, a big ugly and archaic p.o.s. suitable only for fleets.
This is why it didn't sell.

Not everyone wants a suv (Territory)

you missed the point. in the ef/el era, there was every option and yet they still didn't sell, so why run the risk again?

also, it costs money to develop new platforms, body shapes etc etc. lots of money. guess what, ford don't have 'lots of money'.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by prydey

you missed the point. in the ef/el era, there was every option and yet they still didn't sell, so why run the risk again?

also, it costs money to develop new platforms, body shapes etc etc. lots of money. guess what, ford don't have 'lots of money'.

No you missed the point, the EF/EL era is long gone, the world has moved on and peoples lifestyles are different. Families need wagons.

Anyway thats my opinion, I dont have time to argue about

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

No you missed the point, the EF/EL era is long gone, the world has moved on and peoples lifestyles are different. Families need wagons.

Anyway thats my opinion, I dont have time to argue about

so you are saying that families didn't need wagons back then?

you want ford to build cars that they struggle to sell?

[Flat Top]

id listen to what my customers want .

There are gonna be multiple choices and local build plays part of the effort.

The trend is for smaller cars Ford have good product sell it as part of the mix.

Ford Australia are a Flexible manufacturing Plant unlike the hugh plants in Europe and the USA.Use its advantages.

The Territory update is 4 years too late POLITIES WAS RIGHT the diesel should have been introduced earlier. now its catch up time. they need to push to upmarket higher value ones. need LHD to export ??(apart from SA NZ?) The engine is sourced in Euros??

Bring in Kuga to attack sub suv market which is growing.(but in Return they take Territory??its called free trade??)

Assemble global medium car (used to be called large) with LPG (how much gas have we got in Australia again??-800 years or something) with petrol at $1.5/L the trend will be surely to LPG smaller engines as well??

20% export program.(if Ford USA let them??)

Falcon Utes are unique, diesel(RTV?) and liquid lpg good cheap option.

Ranger gonna be a tough one , new hilux on the way , vw coming , how many more utes we gonna be able to choose from?

easy
trev

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by prydey

so you are saying that families didn't need wagons back then?

you want ford to build cars that they struggle to sell?

I think he was trying to say the market has shifted since the E series era and that people these days are moving away from sedans to wagon style vehicles (hatches, wagons and SUV's). I guess just a more practical body shape in general.

Correct me if I am wrong but the XR's didn't sell well in general (compared to today) in the E series, not just in wagon form.

[RAPID_BA]

These are musts...

Bring back fairmont ghia, fairmont and even fairlane

Make a V8 available to all models like the old days, grab a XT V8 if need be

Try and take some weight out of falcon 200kg thanks

Call the GT a Falcon GT

No 4 cylinder turbo, just i6 and V8