Dick Johnson's Plan to save the Falcon - Page 4

TMC · 20-07-2012, 02:20 AM

The Falcon is a great car. Having the best designed and produced product unfortunately doesn't guarantee sales though. The people/buying public don't really know what the best thing is for them either.

When the Valiant went, back in 1981, it created a cult following of Chrysler fanatics. I think the same will happen to the Falcon, the best car this country has ever produced.

Terror_Tree · 20-07-2012, 07:49 AM

With the Australian dollar is so high exporting the Falcon won’t work.

prydey · 20-07-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

As Jeremy Clarkson has said, if you look at our car industry from an outsiders point of view, it's amazing that the big American parent companies let us have an industry at all producing unique Australian cars like the Falcon and Commodore...it would "be like building a special range of models just for a tiny country like Belgium...it just wouldn't happen".

Ford Aus is one of only 3 hubs in the ford world that can research, design and build a car from scratch. FoA's worth to the ford empire is a lot more than just pumping out a handful of cars.

i think they will continue to manufacture here for some time. whether one of the cars they produce beyond 2016 wears the falcon badge remains to be seen but they will be building cars here.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The market started shifting before he left and basically went downhill in the second half of 2010 just as he left.
The gap without EcoLPI made things even worse as fleets didn't want base petrol XR6s, Burela pried to push
them onto Dealerships, they revolted knowing they couldn't sell them without the wheels and screens people wanted..

Problem was they had to fill XR8 and LPG production space on the line, which meant building alot of XR6's. They still sold them in the end! Alot of the over supply were Euro 3 cars like LPG wagons and Utes built prior to June 2010 which hurt them... They were trying to build as many cars as possible to keep LPG customers happy, sadly the LPG customers were not interested in the old cars as most of them had a compliance date limitation of 3 months, plus all Ford could talk about was LPI which did not come out for another 12 months after.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Ford Aus is one of only 3 hubs in the ford world that can research, design and build a car from scratch. FoA's worth to the ford empire is a lot more than just pumping out a handful of cars.

i think they will continue to manufacture here for some time. whether one of the cars they produce beyond 2016 wears the falcon badge remains to be seen but they will be building cars here.

They don't need to build cars here to design and test them here... Ranger is a good example of how they designed and tested here without having the factory on their door step.

I reckon they will only design and test here after 2016 (thats where they have spent all the money here)... Why build cars here when you can build them in places like Thailand for half the price of labor? Shipping is pretty cheap in the scale of things. Mitsubishi did not keep producing here after it failed with 380 simply because there was no value in doing so. I think you will find Ford will be the same. They can soon send tooling etc to another factory if they so desire.

prydey · 20-07-2012, 09:54 AM

i believe a major contributor to the gap in lpg availability was from the decision to keep I6 production going. bit hard to design a LPi system if you don't know what engine it will be for.

also, this LPi system is state of the art. single fuel liquid injection is something they should be praised for, not another reason to stick the boots in. its probably not something the average joe would even care about but it is an achievement and due to some archaic regulations in australia, it took time to figure out how to get it to work reliably and conform.

flappist · 20-07-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I think the Falcon's problem is that it depreciates so fast that it makes sense to pick up a one or two year old XR6 really cheap.

My Fiesta is a base model CL and the TDCI Focus is an LX, which is mid range.

Some do, others don't.

Try to pick up a cheap two year old XR6 ute.......

prydey · 20-07-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I reckon they will only design and test here after 2016 (thats where they have spent all the money here)... Why build cars here when you can build them in places like Thailand for half the price of labor?

quite simply, supply. camry/aurion is built here even though it is also built elsewhere around the world. i believe ford will have similar operations in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Mitsubishi did not keep producing here after it failed with 380 simply because there was no value in doing so. I think you will find Ford will be the same. They can soon send tooling etc to another factory if they so desire.

mitsibishi also no longer compete in the large car segment. obviously the segment is diminishing so its not really hurting them, but ford have stated they wish to remain in that segment, so i would like to think that they will still have a large car (not mondeo as we know it) in the future.

the doom and gloom helps nobody. it is not hard to stay positive even when sales aren't flash. it doesn't mean you aren't a passionate fan at all. if we all jump on here and stick the boots in we are no better than gover, dowling and co.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i believe a major contributor to the gap in lpg availability was from the decision to keep I6 production going. bit hard to design a LPi system if you don't know what engine it will be for.

also, this LPi system is state of the art. single fuel liquid injection is something they should be praised for, not another reason to stick the boots in. its probably not something the average joe would even care about but it is an achievement and due to some archaic regulations in australia, it took time to figure out how to get it to work reliably and conform.

I'm not sticking the boot in, I;m just saying in Marins defence there was such a big build of XR6 petrol at the time... XR6's sell.... it was the only logical stop gap for them to take.

You seem all so defensive Prydey..... People like me are the poor bastards that buy them time after time, I have lost count of how many I have bought in the last 10 years.... Bought my first non Ford this year simply because I am sick to death of **** service, especially from Ford CRC..... Its like Bob Graziano has gone down to that department and said, treat all customers like **** especially if they are a Falcon or Territory owner because we don't want to sell them cars any longer.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

quite simply, supply. camry/aurion is built here even though it is also built elsewhere around the world. i believe ford will have similar operations in the future.

How long do you think Toyota plan on building here?? They have said if the Unions and Fair Work Australia keep harassing them they are out, some have even stated Australia is not cost effective for them in the greater scheme of things...

Time to look outside the square.

Holden Cruze is a good example too... Something Holden did to try and give Commodore a lifeline, something they probably regret now.

The Lone Ranger · 20-07-2012, 10:11 AM

Brent, don't be too hard on Ford service mate. We have a panel shop in the same complex that we are in and he has a 22 week wait for parts on a 6 month old BT50. His customer has a fleet of about 7 BT50's from memory and the dealer and Mazda have both said that they can not and will not help with a replacement vehicle. Panel shops understanding is that there are many, many BT50 customers in the same boat.

Darren

prydey · 20-07-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

You seem all so defensive Prydey.....

well these are great cars and its not enjoyable to see so many 'fans' tell me that the car i like and buy is rubbish.

these are public forums and all the negativity is available to be read by anyone and everyone looking at buying a car. if you were looking at buying a ford, and did a 2 second google search, would you still buy one after reading these boards?

also, i would never not buy a car due to poor customer service. customer service has no bearing on the actual product for me. if i bought something else because a sales person annoyed me, 3 weeks later i would realise i didn't actually buy the car i wanted because a bloke i will rarely see again wasn't nice to me. i buy the car i want. i don't care if i don't get my ego stroked.

as for dealer service, i have zero problems with mine. one of the nicest blokes i know. bends over backwards for me. its all relative.

so yes, i do get defensive but i do my best to remain positive about the actual product. i am not in the industry at all but do come across the odd tidbit from time to time and its enough for me to think the future isn't all bad.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lone Ranger

Brent, don't be too hard on Ford service mate. We have a panel shop in the same complex that we are in and he has a 22 week wait for parts on a 6 month old BT50. His customer has a fleet of about 7 BT50's from memory and the dealer and Mazda have both said that they can not and will not help with a replacement vehicle. Panel shops understanding is that there are many, many BT50 customers in the same boat.

Darren

And in the same token we have Ranger owners who have waited 8 months for Tonneau covers they have paid for on delivery, with no resolution in sight!

The issue is not waiting for things, its Fords treatment when something goes wrong that makes me angry...

The Lone Ranger · 20-07-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

And in the same token we have Ranger owners who have waited 8 months for Tonneau covers they have paid for on delivery, with no resolution in sight!

The issue is not waiting for things, its Fords treatment when something goes wrong that makes me angry...

Mate, I completely agree with you re the treatment and that rediculous CRC ....but it seems it's not just Ford who manage to frustrate their customers. A quick search reveals various forums littered with unhappy customers of most brands.

Darren

TMC · 20-07-2012, 10:30 AM

The carbon tax won't be helping either. This has a knock on effect for everyone. Not only will it be more expensive to manufacture things, it reduces the disposable income of those who may buy a new car. The whole economy is going to tighten right up. The government cares little for manufacturing in this country. Sure they may splash a few million around to big manufacturers every now and again, but that's purely a face saving, vote protecting exercise. It does very little in the end to change the situation for the better. It's like a shot of morphine for someone with terminal cancer.

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

well these are great cars and its not enjoyable to see so many 'fans' tell me that the car i like and buy is rubbish.

these are public forums and all the negativity is available to be read by anyone and everyone looking at buying a car. if you were looking at buying a ford, and did a 2 second google search, would you still buy one after reading these boards?

also, i would never not buy a car due to poor customer service. customer service has no bearing on the actual product for me. if i bought something else because a sales person annoyed me, 3 weeks later i would realise i didn't actually buy the car i wanted because a bloke i will rarely see again wasn't nice to me. i buy the car i want. i don't care if i don't get my ego stroked.

as for dealer service, i have zero problems with mine. one of the nicest blokes i know. bends over backwards for me. its all relative.

so yes, i do get defensive but i do my best to remain positive about the actual product. i am not in the industry at all but do come across the odd tidbit from time to time and its enough for me to think the future isn't all bad.

Sorry for being negative but its reality... Look at Australian manufacturing as a whole... The industry is dead!! The only thing we have here now is Mining and Agriculture.... Both of which will not last forever. It frightens me if I think about it too much.

As for the cars I love my FG GT.... my dream is to buy another, so don't get me wrong, but I do believe Ford could help themselves a little, too little too late now though with the way things are going, sadly as I have said it feels as though the management at Ford Aus don't care.... I think i'd care if they were my employer, but then again not everyone is passionate about what they do.

flappist · 20-07-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

what is the fascination with exporting to the US?? it amazes me that these suggestions continually get put forward.

if Ford US sold a large car here, would we buy it, or would we support the car we make here locally?? why would it be any different over there? they have their own manufacturing and their own cars. why would they buy something from us dumb aussies.

also price and the dollar value. if the cars are being sold here at close to $40k+ to make money, then they have no chance whatsoever in the states, unless they get sold at a massive loss. its not only about volume. if the volume isn't making a profit,the end result is the same as no volume. i thought that was pretty simple.

forget the US. thats just unrealistic. other RHD markets is where any potential focus needs to be if they want to look at exports. the problem with that is, unlike australia, many of the other markets protect their own industries so it can be difficult to get cars in there. i believe 2.7 diesel and 2.0 ecoboost have a much better chance though.

this made me

pot-kettle.

I am fairly confident that all of those who are pushing the "export to USA" line have one thing in common.....they have never actually been to USA.

Yanks are very different people to us and their expectations, interpretations and requirements have very little to do with ours.

For example just watch a bit of US comedy or morning/daytime TV. Jerry Springer is not scripted.
Would you eat a box of cream donuts for breakfast?
Do you pay tip to EVERYONE you deal with?

The Monaro, which is a VERY Australian car demonstrating almost all of our style and comfort preferences, was an abject failure. They did not like it.

In the same way we did not like the Taurus and if you go to yank car sites you will see huge numbers of VERY ugly cars all of which sell more in a week than our best sellers do in a year.

If there is to be export then UK and maybe Africa would be more likely to be successful, unless of course you want the 2017 Falcon to look like a yank tank.....

Just because we like the styling of the Falcon does not mean everyone else does.

FGXR6TUTE · 20-07-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Bought my first non Ford this year simply because I am sick to death of **** service, especially from Ford CRC..... Its like Bob Graziano has gone down to that department and said, treat all customers like **** especially if they are a Falcon or Territory owner because we don't want to sell them cars any longer.

Have to agree with you 100%. Buyers would probably forgive Ford for minor niggles if they were fixed, but when things drag on time after time (eg. 2 yrs to fix my windscreen washers), or when CRC deny a $50 claim I believe was legitimate eg. Ipod cable (which had since changed design twice because they were poo) then people will shop elsewhere.

Sorry Ford, you reap what you sow!

prydey · 20-07-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I am fairly confident that all of those who are pushing the "export to USA" line have one thing in common.....they have never actually been to USA.

Yanks are very different people to us and their expectations, interpretations and requirements have very little to do with ours.

For example just watch a bit of US comedy or morning/daytime TV. Jerry Springer is not scripted.
Would you eat a box of cream donuts for breakfast?
Do you pay tip to EVERYONE you deal with?

The Monaro, which is a VERY Australian car demonstrating almost all of our style and comfort preferences, was an abject failure. They did not like it.

In the same way we did not like the Taurus and if you go to yank car sites you will see huge numbers of VERY ugly cars all of which sell more in a week than our best sellers do in a year.

If there is to be export then UK and maybe Africa would be more likely to be successful, unless of course you want the 2017 Falcon to look like a yank tank.....

Just because we like the styling of the Falcon does not mean everyone else does.

oh, but when i look on youtube at video's of the GT, all the yanks love it and would by 10 of them each

like liking something on the internet would equate to real world sales

prydey · 20-07-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FGXR6TUTE

Have to agree with you 100%. Buyers would probably forgive Ford for minor niggles if they were fixed, but when things drag on time after time (eg. 2 yrs to fix my windscreen washers), or when CRC deny a $50 claim I believe was legitimate eg. Ipod cable (which had since changed design twice because they were poo) then people will shop elsewhere.

Sorry Ford, you reap what you sow!

and then you drive around in a car you don't really want because some stranger didn't treat you nice.

FGXR6TUTE · 20-07-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The only thing we have here now is Mining and Agriculture.... Both of which will not last forever. It frightens me if I think about it too much.

I'm in the agricultural industry, the rate at which our farms are being sold to overseas interests (eg. China, Malaysia) it won't be long and we'll have screwed ourselves over.

KIWI-1 · 20-07-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

mitsibishi also no longer compete in the large car segment. obviously the segment is diminishing so its not really hurting them, but ford have stated they wish to remain in that segment, so i would like to think that they will still have a large car (not mondeo as we know it) in the future.

When have Ford said that?

FGXR6TUTE · 20-07-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

and then you drive around in a car you don't really want because some stranger didn't treat you nice.

No, because I wouldn't buy something I didn't want. Sure it might not go as quick but it won't whine, squeak and rattle either.

KIWI-1 · 20-07-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

And in the same token we have Ranger owners who have waited 8 months for Tonneau covers they have paid for on delivery, with no resolution in sight!

...and some BA parts are already obsolete!

flappist · 20-07-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

...and some BA parts are already obsolete!

Really? Parts for a 10 year old car are becoming obsolete?

Time for you to buy a new FG2.......

prydey · 20-07-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FGXR6TUTE

No, because I wouldn't buy something I didn't want. Sure it might not go as quick but it won't whine, squeak and rattle either.

don't be too sure. can't believe the amount of people that think the grass is so much greener elsewhere. every manufacturer the world over makes cars where some have issues.

ever seen mazda advertise the bt-50 without a bullbar? even they think its butt ugly

Smoke Pursuit · 20-07-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

don't be too sure. can't believe the amount of people that think the grass is so much greener elsewhere. every manufacturer the world over makes cars where some have issues.

ever seen mazda advertise the bt-50 without a bullbar? even they think its butt ugly

Whats the BT-50 got to do with it?

If Ford Aus could supply me a Ranger I would have bought one! Just another downfall for Ford... Products that sell themselves and they can't supply them, simply because Ford US wont give them a decent allocation of production.

BroadyFord · 20-07-2012, 01:37 PM

Was thinking, what if Ford Australia switched from manufacturing passengers vehicles in Australia to commercial vehicles, i.e. Transit, Ranger?

SteveJH · 20-07-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

As Jeremy Clarkson has said, if you look at our car industry from an outsiders point of view, it's amazing that the big American parent companies let us have an industry at all producing unique Australian cars like the Falcon and Commodore...it would "be like building a special range of models just for a tiny country like Belgium...it just wouldn't happen".

While ignoring the fact that we have twice Belgiums population and that our nearest neighbour is not a train ride or drive down the highway away?

sbutler · 20-07-2012, 02:30 PM

Its the goverment that has bought this on. They dropped the tarrif on imported cars, hence the place is crawling Jeeps, Toyotas, Nissans, & god knows how many sorts of Korerian cars now.
Falcon is a world class car & would sell in many other countrys.
The yank cops have just dropped the long serving crown vic, & is importing Bomadoors from here for HWP use.
Just imagine how they'd like an XR6T for HWP use???
Ford Aust need to sell our product to other places. You cant say an G6Et, GT, F6 is not on par with other cars from other parts of the world???
In fact we stack up very well. The now defunked F6X beat all commers,[X5 bmw, Volvo, Range Rover, etc] in a test a couple of years ago. Value for money Im sure the rest of the Falcon range would do the same