Holden to make "important announcement" about its VIC and SA operations

[Road_Warrior]

People need to remember this "aussie dollar" issue is not just effecting the car industry, it is effecting every business in Australia that makes something in competition with an imported product. It's not a problem isolated to the car makers.

Whilst the strength of the dollar is no doubt an issue, an equal or greater issue is a policy and regulatory framework that does not complement our industry with practical assistance. Couple that with a succession of governments hell bent on pleasing overseas interests over our own (Thai FTA anyone?), whoring out our assets and farms to the highest Chinese bidder via flawed policy, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

No, you think its good for everyone, but its not true. Some of the (and yours) previous arguements are based on the fact that the government subsidies create economic activity. ie its ok for cars to cost $25,000 to make and be exported for $20,000 (with government making up the $5,000 shortfall), because it creates economic activity. Now you are of some belief that raising imported car prices wont reduce economic activity. A 20 year old female who has a chance to buy a $15,000 small car is not going to go and buy a falcon if that small car now costs $25,000. She is either going to go and borrow the extra $10,000 (and divert the $40 a week she would have spent on entertainment etc - ie more likely the money will be spent in australia), or she will hold off on buying that car for a few more years. Multiply this over the 500,000 or so light, small and some medium cars that are imported each year, and you will destroy the australian car industry.

A weak Australian dollar would destroy alot more Australian families than a strong one. Petrol prices rise, food prices rise, financing costs rise. Devaluing the Australian dollar in half basically works out to halving an australian workers wage (its that simple)

It clearly, isn't as easy & plan black & white as I have made it out to be. However, I still strongly believe a lower dollar is better for Australia than a higher one.

[stazza]

Did they just announce today another 500?

[jpblue1000]

I read today that 2/3 of exporters are also importers, the strong Australian dollar helps the import side of the business

JP

[mik]

i stumbled across across an interesting you tube clip about the lima agreement of 1975, it is a very interesting clip titled "Lima Declaration" Killing Australia's Manufacturing.
a lot of it makes sense.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

It clearly, isn't as easy & plan black & white as I have made it out to be. However, I still strongly believe a lower dollar is better for Australia than a higher one.

i believe Joe5619 there needs to be balance, at this time the balance is way out of kilter, those that pull the strings know this but are giving us the shaft regardless imo.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by stazza

Did they just announce today another 500?

I heard something on the radio this morning that there were more than what was anounced yesterday but missed the number though

[imugli]

Originally Posted by pmacc

There is a few things we should be doing that for some stupid reason we aint

one is dinging the ***** out of SA and getting every bit of that oil we have so we can finally not be dependent on imported oil

two is maintaing every oil refinery we have, not turing them into desal plants that we dont need

three is making more than two cars on our production lines. stuff like the Ranger and Focus should be made here, same with the captiva and colorado and the kluger and hilux. yes our wages are higher but if we produce more per man hour that the thai's, japs and the koreans (btw the japs and koreans have high wages aswell) then the labour cost arnt such an issue.

four is any government, council or anything that gets funds/taxes from australians should be buying 100% Australian unless they have needs that a aussie cant provide them. Adelaide city council for example has a fleet of v6 hiluxes that have a few shovels in the tray and a trailer behind with all the other equipment. pretty sure a VE or FG Ute could do the same job and be cheaper to run if they bought the gas models.

and finally cheaper rego for australian made vehicles paid by increases in import rego and higher stampy duty for the purchase of a import vehicle

Here's another idea... Let's build a big a*se fence around Australia. No one gets in, no one gets out. If we can't grow it or produce it here, we go without. If we dig it up but can't process it here, forget it. No imports, no exports. The government owns everything and dictates what gets made and how much it gets sold for. And everyone earns the same number of potatoes per week regardless of how many hours they work or what they do or how long they went to school to learn their skills... While we're at it, let's bring back the communist party...

What you're talking about is blatant protectionism an will do far more harm to our economy than good.

[mik]

Blatant protectionism? What is the word for the extreme other end of the scale where policy has oz manufacturing bent over a barrel due to imports?

[pursuit2359]

I think the reason for the job cuts are poor Cruze sales rather than the currency or a lack of industry assistance. In Holden's announcement, Devereux refers to a 38% fall in Cruze sales from June to July 2012 - and they haven't recovered.

As for the Australian dollar, there's some discussion here: http://adams27.blogspot.com.au/2013/...ustralian.html. Against the KRW and the THB, the AUD is at about the same value now as it was a year ago; the yen is a different story, but that's a very recent development.

[imugli]

Blatant protectionism? What is the word for the extreme other end of the scale where policy has oz manufacturing bent over a barrel due to imports?

You mean the RBA's policy of letting the market decide the fair value of the AU$? You mean the policy of the Federal Government to allow consumers (be they Individuals, Corporations or government bodies) to purchase whatever vehicle they believe fits their purposes best? You mean the policy to open up export markets for those industries where Australia has a competitive advantage, at the cost of those where we don't? That's called capitalism. Market Capitalism. Where the consumer decides what to purchase and (simplistically) demand dictates price.

Basically, if a product cannot be sold in suffiicent numbers at a price that will make a profit, then it shouldn't be made.

If a Falcon doesn't suit my needs for whatever reason, I shouldn't be forced to pay through the nose for an imported car that does, or worse, through the nose because that's what it costs to make that vehicle that does meet my needs in Australia.

It's why Ford decided not build the Focus in Oz. They couldn't build enough of them here to cover the area that Thailand currently is without expanding at considerable costs, and building enough to simply satisfy the Australian market would have been a loss making venture, as Holden have discovered.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by pursuit2359

I think the reason for the job cuts are poor Cruze sales rather than the currency or a lack of industry assistance. In Holden's announcement, Devereux refers to a 38% fall in Cruze sales from June to July 2012 - and they haven't recovered.

As for the Australian dollar, there's some discussion here: http://adams27.blogspot.com.au/2013/...ustralian.html. Against the KRW and the THB, the AUD is at about the same value now as it was a year ago; the yen is a different story, but that's a very recent development.

The Cruze isn't that bad compared to the others in the segment, is it??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by pursuit2359

I think the reason for the job cuts are poor Cruze sales rather than the currency or a lack of industry assistance. In Holden's announcement, Devereux refers to a 38% fall in Cruze sales from June to July 2012 - and they haven't recovered.

As for the Australian dollar, there's some discussion here: http://adams27.blogspot.com.au/2013/...ustralian.html. Against the KRW and the THB, the AUD is at about the same value now as it was a year ago; the yen is a different story, but that's a very recent development.

Very strange misdirection considering a lot of international trade is done in US dollars,
A currency that has slid significantly against the Aussie dollar.

[flappist]

One question each should ask themselves honestly.

If Ford and Holden were to shut down all operations in Australia except for design, sacked everyone else and moved their factories to "Woopwoopland" but continued to build Falcons and Commodores at equal or better quality but half the retail price e.g. GT/R8 $35k drive away or SS/XR6T $25k drive away would you:

1) Happy dance, you can buy a cheaper new car.
2) Boycott them, solidarity brother.
3) Scream loudly because your second hand whatever is now worth less as a trade.
4) Not care.
5) Start a thread on a forum raving how if you were in charge they would be that price but made here and each worker would get a pay rise.

[ryeman]

Woopwoop land just west of lala land?

[zoomie]

Originally Posted by prydey

i wonder if anyone stops to think about the consequences, if indeed the high dollar does cause local manufacturing to cease.

what happens if local manufacturing ceases, and the dollar falls. what if it falls back to 2004 levels? with no local manufacturing, car prices would skyrocket!! i bet all those cursing the govt handouts won't be so vocal then.

On the flipside, if the dollar drops back to 60-80cents petrol prices will skyrocket. This then means people still wont buy aussie large cars cos they will struggle to afford to run them.

Higher fuel prices will also effect transport and direct farming cost which will most certainly be passed on to consumers.

High and or low aussie dollar prices both have pros and cons even for the general public.

[tommof]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Cruze isn't that bad compared to the others in the segment, is it??

As it happens I think they are awful.

Missus had her Swift auto in for smash repairs and we got a Cruze rental.
On arriving home on the day, missus asks me to check the Cruze because it seemed the handbrake was stuck..

A 1.8l auto actually was a gutless POS. Tacho needle was always up between 3-5G in normal, for her, driving. Absolutely no torque. Sitting on flat hwy with CC on and the gearbox would change constantly to maintain speed.

Daughter has a '11 Cerato auto, much nicer to drive. Also sometimes drive a '10 Mazda 3 auto and can't believe anyone who had a choice would choose the Cruze over those two...

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by tommof

As it happens I think they are awful.

Missus had her Swift auto in for smash repairs and we got a Cruze rental.
On arriving home on the day, missus asks me to check the Cruze because it seemed the handbrake was stuck..

A 1.8l auto actually was a gutless POS. Tacho needle was always up between 3-5G in normal, for her, driving. Absolutely no torque. Sitting on flat hwy with CC on and the gearbox would change constantly to maintain speed.

Daughter has a '11 Cerato auto, much nicer to drive. Also sometimes drive a '10 Mazda 3 auto and can't believe anyone who had a choice would choose the Cruze over those two...

That's what the old Camira was like...

[mik]

Originally Posted by zoomie

On the flipside, if the dollar drops back to 60-80cents petrol prices will skyrocket. This then means people still wont buy aussie large cars cos they will struggle to afford to run them.

Higher fuel prices will also effect transport and direct farming cost which will most certainly be passed on to consumers.

High and or low aussie dollar prices both have pros and cons even for the general public.

so you don`t think anyone would buy an lpg alternative? you are probably right though prices in some things will rise, but there are benefits too.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by imugli

Here's another idea... Let's build a big a*se fence around Australia. No one gets in, no one gets out. If we can't grow it or produce it here, we go without. If we dig it up but can't process it here, forget it. No imports, no exports. The government owns everything and dictates what gets made and how much it gets sold for. And everyone earns the same number of potatoes per week regardless of how many hours they work or what they do or how long they went to school to learn their skills... While we're at it, let's bring back the communist party...

What you're talking about is blatant protectionism an will do far more harm to our economy than good.

LOL... U the man

[Nikked]

So the Cruze is to blame.


Funny...

Most people say that Ford/Holdens problem is that "they aren't producing cars that people want"

Ford build a SUV and Holden build a Small car, both boom segments. Both are facing slides in sales...

The common factor here is the local manufacture...and how manufacturing of all types is being strangled by government decisions that favour Asian nations draining our country of resources.

Draining our resources, our Jobs, families and pride in local product.

I'm glad I gave the wax effigy of Gillard the bird...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by mik

Blatant protectionism? What is the word for the extreme other end of the scale where policy has oz manufacturing bent over a barrel due to imports?

Federal Government Policy

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So the Cruze is to blame.


Funny...

Most people say that Ford/Holdens problem is that "they aren't producing cars that people want"

Ford build a SUV and Holden build a Small car, both boom segments. Both are facing slides in sales...

The common factor here is the local manufacture...and how manufacturing of all types is being strangled by government decisions that favour Asian nations draining our country of resources.

Draining our resources, our Jobs, families and pride in local product.

I'm glad I gave the wax effigy of Gillard the bird...

To be fair the other common theme, is they are cars built by American companies that have American values in respect of long term planning and investment, quality control, customer relations and marketing.

The third American company to produce cars in Australia, didn't last long enough, to be part of this conversation.

[zoomie]

Originally Posted by mik

so you don`t think anyone would buy an lpg alternative? you are probably right though prices in some things will rise, but there are benefits too.

I think LPG has a stigma attached to it that alot of people are haunted by.

LPG should be a boom here for large private car owners but unfortunatly it just isnt.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by flappist

One question each should ask themselves honestly.

If Ford and Holden were to shut down all operations in Australia except for design, sacked everyone else and moved their factories to "Woopwoopland" but continued to build Falcons and Commodores at equal or better quality but half the retail price e.g. GT/R8 $35k drive away or SS/XR6T $25k drive away would you:

1) Happy dance, you can buy a cheaper new car.
2) Boycott them, solidarity brother.
3) Scream loudly because your second hand whatever is now worth less as a trade.
4) Not care.
5) Start a thread on a forum raving how if you were in charge they would be that price but made here and each worker would get a pay rise.

Look to see if they still had the same crap dealer network before making a decision.

[ryeman]

What's this business of Holden claiming that the media rate the 2014 Cruze as a segment leader....???

[burnz]

Originally Posted by zoomie

I think LPG has a stigma attached to it that alot of people are haunted by.

LPG should be a boom here for large private car owners but unfortunatly it just isnt.

a boom just like diesel is becoming, with a price tag to match soon after.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Nikked

So the Cruze is to blame.


Funny...

Most people say that Ford/Holdens problem is that "they aren't producing cars that people want"

Ford build a SUV and Holden build a Small car, both boom segments. Both are facing slides in sales...

The common factor here is the local manufacture...and how manufacturing of all types is being strangled by government decisions that favour Asian nations draining our country of resources.

Draining our resources, our Jobs, families and pride in local product.

The real problem is there are far too many choices of vehicles and models these days, with just a few made locally for a very limited market. Its just not cost effective to build local cars any more.

The shear number of imports and different models are killing our industry. Compounded by the lack of tarriffs on these relatively cheap imports. Cheap, because they are mass produced for a worldwide market, by low cost per unit manufacturing.
,

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Woopwoop land just west of lala land?

Oh is that where it is?

Good that you have local knowledge........

[Franco Cozzo]

Could probably design the Falcon here, build it in Thailand with the Fiesta and Focus, get it to $29,990 drive away.

But no one would buy it regardless if it was $29,990, or $29 because its a Falcon.

Unfortunately its got a bad image with joe public for what ever reasons.