First experience .. Vic law regarding passing emergency vehicle

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I have no doubt following distance is a huge factor, from the above posts the Truck was behind another Truck, and I don't see where I suggested these poor cops were doing anything wrong.. why would you get that idea?

quoting someone isn't always a rebuttal. sometimes its just context, or to add to the comments....

i was just highlighting that if people respected the laws instead of living in their own little bubble, 'slamming on the brakes' wouldn't need to happen. Well, not often anyway.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by prydey

The real cause is driving standards, not the laws. I'm not familiar with the stretch of road where it happened but unless it was over the crest of a rise, blue and reds can be seen some distance away. It's not difficult to slow down when you first see them. I've had to do it numerous times in 100 zones.

In a 100 zone you should have approx 60 - 80 metres between vehicles as a safe following distance. That's about 3 seconds and gives you time to react. It's very simple and controlled by the driver of each vehicle.

About time the law clamped down on following distances.

This is very traffic incident and one the laws were trying to stop. Paint whatever picture you like but these police officers were just trying to do their job.

I do agree that more needs to be done to enforce safe following distance, in a world of suvs and trucks dominating the roads vision is obscured worse than ever.
Couple that with a seemingly overwhelming need for people to follow within a car length of the car in front and it’s a recipe for disaster, and the precise cause of simple fender benders turning into multiple car pile ups.

This is a tragedy for all involved, especially at a time when so many are already in strife.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

So the truck just drove into the emergency lane for no other reason?
have you every encountered this 40kph law on a freeway? everyone has to slam on their bakes, now imagine doing that in a Truck.

Exactly. We have the same law in WA and it's very dangerous, have seen the idiocy first hand. You're driving at the speed limit on the freeway and suddenly the traffic is forced to slow down to 40km/h. Some people emergency brake. Now imagine being in a truck. Surely someone is going to die. In this incident 4 police demonstrated just exactly how deadly it is.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

So the truck just drove into the emergency lane for no other reason?
have you every encountered this 40kph law on a freeway? everyone has to slam on their bakes, now imagine doing that in a Truck.

Of course there will be a reason the truck drove into that lane. But why are people just jumping on the bandwagon and assuming/asserting it's because all of the other traffic were jumping on their brakes to get down to 40km/h to pass the scene as required by the law? Any evidence to support that?

I heard the Police Commissioner on the radio saying that the truck driver involved is in hospital because he experienced a medical episode. It is unclear as to whether the episode was as a result of the incident or was in play before the incident.

So initial evidence suggests there may be other factors in play here other than just a truck taking avoiding action because people were slamming on their brakes.

[Smoke Pursuit]

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...dUt6tHxDD0NC_4


Link to the Dash cam from a month ago.



I wouldn't like to speculate at all regarding to this case. The possibilities are endless, therefore we all need to sit tight and see what the police come up with.



What a terrible tragedy :(

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Of course there will be a reason the truck drove into that lane. But why are people just jumping on the bandwagon and assuming/asserting it's because all of the other traffic were jumping on their brakes to get down to 40km/h to pass the scene as required by the law? Any evidence to support that?

Because that's what people do.. they don't care if a Truck is right behind them.
as per previous post if you have encountered this situation you would know.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by prydey

quoting someone isn't always a rebuttal. sometimes its just context, or to add to the comments....

i was just highlighting that if people respected the laws instead of living in their own little bubble, 'slamming on the brakes' wouldn't need to happen. Well, not often anyway.

I think and not for the first time we are actually Agree. the majority of drivers do seem to be in a bubble. slamming brakes on shouldn't need to happen but unfortunately it does happen.

[BENT_8]

If the truck was following another truck, say a airliner, it's very hard to see much ahead at all, you're basically relying on the preceding truck as your eyes and do whatever he's doing.
Whilst it's ok to say keep a 3 seconds gap or 80m, reality is, during peak hour, all that gap does is invite a bunch of ignorant car drivers in to your reaction space and every time you adjust, another will invite themselves in.
Unless you've been in that situation you really don't know how much it happens.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

A speeding driver, who fled a crash where four police were killed, put pictures of the horrific scene on Facebook before fleeing.

Quotes taken from above article:

The Porsche driver, who allegedly fled the scene after four police officers were killed in a horror freeway crash in Melbourne and put photos on Facebook of the “graphic” crash scene, has been arrested.

Speaking to reporters this morning, Victorian Police Commissioner Graham Ashton said the Porsche driver, who had been pulled over by officers before 5pm last night for speeding, had taken photos of the horrific scene before allegedly walking away from the crash site.

“We are pursuing with Facebook that there has been some images placed on Facebook that appear to have been taken by this individual at the scene, before he has left the scene,” Mr Ashton said.

“And some of those photographs were circulating last night online. So, I would ask if anyone is finding photographs online, not to further circulate them. In fact we are talking to Facebook this morning about removing those images from Facebook.”

Mr Ashton said the man’s act was “disgusting” and said the photos were “quite graphic”.

“To leave the scene is a very, very low act in my view,” he said.

Concur with the bold above completely. Some people just don't deserve to be a part of our community.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

If the truck was following another truck, say a airliner, it's very hard to see much ahead at all, you're basically relying on the preceding truck as your eyes and do whatever he's doing.
Whilst it's ok to say keep a 3 seconds gap or 80m, reality is, during peak hour, all that gap does is invite a bunch of ignorant car drivers in to your reaction space and every time you adjust, another will invite themselves in.
Unless you've been in that situation you really don't know how much it happens.

i don't buy in to this kind of argument.

i've travelled on the pacific mwy from GC to Bris in peak hour. 6 lane car park. yes, if you leave a gap, cars will fill it, but they don't control my car, i do. My safety is my responsibility so i'll just keep backing off if i need to. Last time i did it every day for 2 weeks and every day, i still made it home.

obviously the slower the traffic, the smaller the gap you need, but 2-3 seconds is still a good guide. if you can't see very far in front then you need to adjust accordingly.

the 'everyone else is doing it' argument is never going to fly in court.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

A speeding driver, who fled a crash where four police were killed, put pictures of the horrific scene on Facebook before fleeing.

Quotes taken from above article:

The Porsche driver, who allegedly fled the scene after four police officers were killed in a horror freeway crash in Melbourne and put photos on Facebook of the “graphic” crash scene, has been arrested.

Speaking to reporters this morning, Victorian Police Commissioner Graham Ashton said the Porsche driver, who had been pulled over by officers before 5pm last night for speeding, had taken photos of the horrific scene before allegedly walking away from the crash site.

“We are pursuing with Facebook that there has been some images placed on Facebook that appear to have been taken by this individual at the scene, before he has left the scene,” Mr Ashton said.

“And some of those photographs were circulating last night online. So, I would ask if anyone is finding photographs online, not to further circulate them. In fact we are talking to Facebook this morning about removing those images from Facebook.”

Mr Ashton said the man’s act was “disgusting” and said the photos were “quite graphic”.

“To leave the scene is a very, very low act in my view,” he said.

Concur with the bold above completely. Some people just don't deserve to be a part of our community.

The article I read this Morning Said; not only had He been Speeding, He also failed the roadside Drug test.& they had elected to Impound the Car (Hoon Laws?) hence the Second Pair of Police attending the scene..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i don't buy in to this kind of argument.

i've travelled on the pacific mwy from GC to Bris in peak hour. 6 lane car park. yes, if you leave a gap, cars will fill it, but they don't control my car, i do. My safety is my responsibility so i'll just keep backing off if i need to. Last time i did it every day for 2 weeks and every day, i still made it home.

obviously the slower the traffic, the smaller the gap you need, but 2-3 seconds is still a good guide. if you can't see very far in front then you need to adjust accordingly.

the 'everyone else is doing it' argument is never going to fly in court.

I don't care if you buy into it, its 100% accurate on any given day.

There is a big difference between driving your family car along a freeway to being held to a tight time schedule with freight, you want that cheap Chinese **** from Kmart or Bunnings, its got to be there on time or someone pays.

You have to understand the psyche of a heavy vehicle driver, they do thousands of km's every week, not just an annual family holiday, they see and put up with ignorant drivers everyday and learn to cope with what they can and cant do whilst trying to keep to tight schedules, its only when things turn to **** like this instance where its exposed.
Do you honestly think this is the first time a truck driver has bailed to the emergency lane when something in front of him does something he's not expecting, go checkout brake marks on any given freeway for your answer, the difference here is, it was the perfect storm, the emergency stopping lane was occupied and he probably had nowhere else to go.

Now im sure someone will pipe up and say no, every other heavy vehicle driver is perfect, never have to put up with ignorant car drivers and that its all sunshine and rainbows out there, but its far from it.

The problem isn't that everyone else is doing it, the problem is that driver education and attitude is shocking in this country combined with the fact that no one is out there making people accountable until it all goes to ****.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by prydey

i don't buy in to this kind of argument.

i've travelled on the pacific mwy from GC to Bris in peak hour. 6 lane car park. yes, if you leave a gap, cars will fill it, but they don't control my car, i do. My safety is my responsibility so i'll just keep backing off if i need to. Last time i did it every day for 2 weeks and every day, i still made it home.

obviously the slower the traffic, the smaller the gap you need, but 2-3 seconds is still a good guide. if you can't see very far in front then you need to adjust accordingly.

the 'everyone else is doing it' argument is never going to fly in court.

he's right though, that's reality.
I recall driving to Scotland from London and it was years ago the M1 in particular will have a stream of trucks in the left hand lane with scarcely a gap between them.
edit: and that was the UK drivers are far worse here..

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

, it was the perfect storm, the emergency stopping lane was occupied and he probably had nowhere else to go.

You're Taking a fair bit for granted, with that Supposition aren't you..????

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You have to understand the psyche of a heavy vehicle driver, they do thousands of km's every week,

i understand better than you might think...

my old man ran his own transport business for 40+ years (owner driver) running 2 semi's in and around brisbane and later, adelaide. my brother also drives a semi.

i know what the reality is. accepting it is 'normal' is a choice each individual makes.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The problem isn't that everyone else is doing it, the problem is that driver education and attitude is shocking in this country combined with the fact that no one is out there making people accountable until it all goes to ****.

which is what i said in post 89

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

he's right though, that's reality.
I recall driving to Scotland from London and it was years ago the M1 in particular will have a stream of trucks in the left hand lane with scarcely a gap between them.

Yes, im not saying its right to do it, but it happens because you either take the punt that you'll get through or keep backing off as more and more dickheads think you've left that nice little gap for them on an otherwise packed freeway just because you're a nice guy.

My Nephew had it happen to him not long after he started driving heavy vehicles, was driving along a dual lane road, leaving his gap, govco public transport bus comes flying up right hand lane and decides that gap is just what he needs to make the left hand turn he needs a few hundred meters up the road, only problem was, car entering from side road also saw the gap and thought it may have been for them too, so car goes, bus driver reacts and poor old mate who was doing nothing wrong and hadn't an opportunity to readjust runs up the back of the bus because the bus hadn't even completely entered the left lane yet and was blocking both.
Bus driver gets out all apologetic, until the cops came at which point he says, he hit me from behind and old mate copped the fine and the boss paid the insurance excess.
But its so perfect in some minds, just give more space...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

You're Taking a fair bit for granted, with that Supposition aren't you..????

Isn't everyone who wasn't there and making comment?

He obviously went to the emergency stopping lane for a reason, apparently it was full, I doubt he had much choice from that point.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i understand better than you might think...

my old man ran his own transport business for 40+ years (owner driver) running 2 semi's in and around brisbane and later, adelaide. my brother also drives a semi.

i know what the reality is. accepting it is 'normal' is a choice each individual makes.



which is what i said in post 89

Yeah, there's a difference between thinking you have an understanding of it and dealing with it everyday to earn a crust.

[Franco Cozzo]

Turns out the driver of the Porsche took photos before running off then leaked them online, one of my colleagues was showing me the photos.

All I can say is I hope all who died, died instantly otherwise they would have suffered greatly, one of them was jammed between the truck and the roof of the Porsche.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...23-p54mfw.html

Finance industry dude-bro on drugs, we've seen how expensive his car is, let's see how expensive his lawyer is.

I'm calling 5 year sentence with 3 years suspended and attend a drug rehabilitation course with his two years served in a low security prison white collar crime type deal.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Turns out the driver of the Porsche took photos before running off then leaked them online, one of my colleagues was showing me the photos.

All I can say is I hope all who died, died instantly otherwise they would have suffered greatly, one of them was jammed between the truck and the roof of the Porsche.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...23-p54mfw.html

Finance industry dude-bro on drugs, we've seen how expensive his car is, let's see how expensive his lawyer is.

I'm calling 5 year sentence with 3 years suspended and attend a drug rehabilitation course with his two years served in a low security prison white collar crime type deal.

I think the coppers will be looking for blood..so to speak. He doesnt even deserve a cell.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Ive now seen the pics he took. Bloody disgraceful.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the coppers will be looking for blood..so to speak. He doesnt even deserve a cell.

You know how it is though, it's probably got more to do with the legal teams relationship with the magistrate and their knowledge of what they respond to rather than what the prosecution team can put forward.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You know how it is though, it's probably got more to do with the legal teams relationship with the magistrate and their knowledge of what they respond to rather than what the prosecution team can put forward.

Yeah I know what you mean, but this is worse than any terrorist attack as far as police impact goes, his a known individual etc..the media will have a field day with it.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Ive now seen the pics he took. Bloody disgraceful.

I want to see, but I dont need too as it cant be good.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Hopefully it gets revoked or at least changed.

At least on freeways as I have always said.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

If the truck was following another truck, say a airliner, it's very hard to see much ahead at all, you're basically relying on the preceding truck as your eyes and do whatever he's doing.
Whilst it's ok to say keep a 3 seconds gap or 80m, reality is, during peak hour, all that gap does is invite a bunch of ignorant car drivers in to your reaction space and every time you adjust, another will invite themselves in.
Unless you've been in that situation you really don't know how much it happens.

Sorry, but that is a load of **** and good luck having that argument (loose term) hold up in court.
The same can be said for the woe is me whinging truck driver, hard done by attitude.


If traffic is flowing at 100kmh, realistically how much time are you going to loose by leaving a 2-3 second gap...
If its too hard to see infront of the vehicle you're tailgating, drop back and keep a safe and legal following distance. You know, to scan ahead, anticipate and react to any hazards.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeah I know what you mean, but this is worse than any terrorist attack as far as police impact goes, his a known individual etc..the media will have a field day with it.


I want to see, but I dont need too as it cant be good.

Not worth it. I’ve never seen anything like it. 😣

[nuthin' fancy]

I drive for a living. I am alert, considerate and aware.

And on a three, four or five lane freeway I can get beside flashing blues and reds before I see them.

Having to slow from 100km/h to 40km/h is a recipe for disaster.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the coppers will be looking for blood..so to speak. He doesnt even deserve a cell.

He was already out on bail, So I think that It's safe to Say that; He is "known" to the Police....

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/peop...freeway-crash/

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Sorry, but that is a load of **** and good luck having that argument (loose term) hold up in court.
The same can be said for the woe is me whinging truck driver, hard done by attitude.


If traffic is flowing at 100kmh, realistically how much time are you going to loose by leaving a 2-3 second gap...
If its too hard to see infront of the vehicle you're tailgating, drop back and keep a safe and legal following distance. You know, to scan ahead, anticipate and react to any hazards.

I think you're missing the point, its not that you cant keep a 3 second gap, its that in peak hour, which this was, that 3 second gap will get filled in a heart beat, then you've got to adjust another 3 second gap, which will likewise be filled in a heartbeat, rinse, repeat.
Deal with that everyday and tell me it doesn't make you more reluctant to leave that gap.
There's a reason why they spent a fortune on an advertising campaign a few years ago about not filling a heavy vehicles braking space, but unfortunately, it doesn't always sink in with many motorists.

A lot of this is speculation based on real world situations being a multi lane freeway in peak hour and the result is a once in a blue moon occurrence. No one set out to kill 4 innocent people going about their jobs but sometimes the things people do out of habit or necessity can lead to unforeseen results, as a heavy vehicle driver in those conditions you could get away with a tighter margin for years and never have a problem, and then all of a sudden you do, i'd say this could be one of those occasions.

And lest not forget, if the bloke driving the car wasn't breaking the law, those innocent people wouldn't have been there in that moment.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

I drive for a living. I am alert, considerate and aware.

And on a three, four or five lane freeway I can get beside flashing blues and reds before I see them.

Having to slow from 100km/h to 40km/h is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly, and excuse me if im wrong, but looking at the grainy pic I've seen at least 1 of the cars had no markings which would suggest it wouldn't have roof mount red and blues which means visibility is decreased again.