Fastest P-Plate Legal Car

[XzLr8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

I dont know, I think maybe the politicians are helping you young blokes pick up. I see these clowns rolling down the strip, doof doof doof, the chicks are lookin, burst of speed, blow off valve, gear change, and youre past em, stereo too loud to hear the girlies holla at ya. Then the realisation on the lads, wait they cant see me now, lets go back, u turn, doof doof doof. But you have the attention span of a gnat, cause youse do it again, and again, and again....


DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF pfffttt DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF DOOF bugger.

And thus is the story of how CHAP LAPS was born... LmAO

[Elks]

You people are doing my head in.

200kw = High perfromance 6. Lock up your dauagters here comes those wacko's in a Toyota Aurion. They must be fearless.

On a seperate thought, I wouldn't mind a job at the RTA where they must sit around drinking Tequila slammers rather than doing anything useful. :

[yift]

i love the mentality of the young guys today, i see it with customers at work and my friends brothers/sisters etc.

you guys basically live by the same motto as all us older people did but worse.

why should i listen or do things like the way i should, it wont happen to me!


that is where the young people of today are taking it way too far because of the flexibility they have and the fact that everything is easier to get today. im not just talking about driving like idiots and having hotted up cars, they are only part of the equation, its also the drug taking and alchohol intake/abuse.

i used to have the same mentality then one by one friends of mine were dropping off like flies from car accidents or being killed by drunk drivers (p platers and full licenced) drug overdoses etc, the government doesnt give a but your families do.

respect and obey the rules so your family doesnt have to bury you!
who gives a flying if the car you want for your p's is banned, like guys have said before buy a shitbox, build a good rapport with your insurance company and get your dream car when your off your p's.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by yift

respect and obey the rules so your family doesnt have to bury you!
who gives a flying if the car you want for your p's is banned, like guys have said before buy a shitbox, build a good rapport with your insurance company and get your dream car when your off your p's.

Obeying the rules won't guarantee your survival. Also, shitboxes have a higher chance of accident and/or death then a modern even semi sporty car. They don't brake or steer well and usually old crappy cars have old crappy occupant crash saftey that doesn't work well.

The rules are a blatant invasion of civil liberty no matter which way you look at it, which the rest of the civilised world does not employ. So why should we accept it in Australia?

[TEaaron]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Obeying the rules won't guarantee your survival. Also, shitboxes have a higher chance of accident and/or death then a modern even semi sporty car. They don't brake or steer well and usually old crappy cars have old crappy occupant crash saftey that doesn't work well.

The rules are a blatant invasion of civil liberty no matter which way you look at it, which the rest of the civilised world does not employ. So why should we accept it in Australia?

Yeah but they have less power so therefore they're safer.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by yift

i love the mentality of the young guys today, i see it with customers at work and my friends brothers/sisters etc.

you guys basically live by the same motto as all us older people did but worse.

why should i listen or do things like the way i should, it wont happen to me!


that is where the young people of today are taking it way too far because of the flexibility they have and the fact that everything is easier to get today. im not just talking about driving like idiots and having hotted up cars, they are only part of the equation, its also the drug taking and alchohol intake/abuse.

i used to have the same mentality then one by one friends of mine were dropping off like flies from car accidents or being killed by drunk drivers (p platers and full licenced) drug overdoses etc, the government doesnt give a but your families do.

respect and obey the rules so your family doesnt have to bury you!
who gives a flying if the car you want for your p's is banned, like guys have said before buy a shitbox, build a good rapport with your insurance company and get your dream car when your off your p's.

The problem is that more than likely your going to get buried for something that has nothing to do with driving a performance car. I have lost count of the times I have nearly been run over on the motorbike around town when I am driving sedately and following everything I have been taught about being visible in riding school.

Last month my old man who during the week drives a low powered Ford Laser very calmly (to save petrol) was crushed by a stupid woman in a four wheel drive and God only knows how he survived that one.

I ride a bike to work everyday, I work dodging heavy machinery all day, I spend weekends making jumps and going over them on dirt bikes, all my friends are serving in the Army and I plan on joining the reserves soon.

Quite frankly I could die any number of times during the day so I really don't give a shite about the RTA's obscure connection between V8's and P-Plate crashes.

[Rev28K]

Steffo


Mmm 172 Cup. I thought they eventually made ABS an option on those things.
Clio V6 – a Clio owner on another forum claimed that you could bring them in new from NZ when they were still making them for about $70k.

It’s always hard to judge how good/bad a car performs at least on a track you hope that the driver has some idea or at least is willing to take steps to improve their performance. Sometimes it is hard to tell the mods and track conditions at least with the Vic tracks I’ve got some idea of what they should achieve. At Sandown a stock DC2R on RE540s should be doing around 1:33 (according to a guy who raced them in GTP years ago). There are some quicker ones (Steven Wong around 1:25-somethings from memory) but his car is far from a road car. Some of the ITRs have been fiddled with (but also some of their drivers are 5h1t and some of the mods are backwards steps so it evens out I guess).

TopGear times have to be taken with a grain of salt – the track layout isn’t fixed (marked by witches hats), different days and different Stigs – still the Clio’s times look good given those qualifying statements. Motor looked like they got 1:47.16 out of a Clio in PCOTY 2005 and a DC2R is a sniff quicker there but that may be down to gearing or something for that particular track – I’m looking for 1:43 (maybe 1:42 with a good driver) on RE55’s (a friend driving my car did 1:43 on “slower” RE540s). Good drivers in DC2R’s on R spec rubber can do 1:58’s down at Phillip Island. A stock DC2R on R spec rubber will beat most stock V8s under brakes and in the turns and Greg Cricks mildly tweaked DC2R was a giant killer in Targa Tassie. If your RSC is close (or better) than an ITR you will have an absolute ball with it. A friend who races the ADM DC5R and services my DC2R loves the improved rigidity of the shell, stronger engine of the newer model but reckons they threw away any gains by reverting to a cheaper suspension.

I haven’t seen that many RenaultSports down here on the roads (they have that “stealth” element) and haven’t encountered any on track days so it’s hard for me to compare. The closest I’ve come are Peugeot 205/306 GTi’s and various Alpines (4 and 6 cyl). The Clio always seemed to offer incredible value for money and if they had come out a month or two earlier I probably would’ve bought one. As it is I walk past a light blue (Gordini Blue?) example with white stripes almost everyday and think that could’ve been me.

Good luck on the track and keep on lifting those rear wheels in the air!

[XR8Master]

But what I really need to know is, Do these P-Plate regulations disallow me driving a tonka truck ?

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Obeying the rules won't guarantee your survival. Also, shitboxes have a higher chance of accident and/or death then a modern even semi sporty car. They don't brake or steer well and usually old crappy cars have old crappy occupant crash saftey that doesn't work well.

The rules are a blatant invasion of civil liberty no matter which way you look at it, which the rest of the civilised world does not employ. So why should we accept it in Australia?

They aren't an invasion of civil liberty. No one is stopping you from having a high performance car. They are stopping you from having a high performance vehicle on public roads. If you notice that a lot of the slightly more experienced performance car enthusiasts on this forum have a high performance track/weekend car, and a modest "daily". It's funny how many young drivers paint themselves as performance enthusiasts yet whenever I go to test and tunes the 17-21 year olds are few and far between.

[chris0]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

They're very pokey, but you'll be hard pressed getting one low 15 seconds N/A.

Hard pressed getting 14's, 15's can be achieved pretty easily with exhaust+timing+cai+good launch. N/A 14's = cams+tune
They only weigh ~1050kg. Not having a dig at you or anything, but i drive one everyday

[Rev28K]

N14 Pulsar SSS 2.0 very torquey for the time. I can remember jumping in to one at a track day and even though my 1.6 CRX handled better the Pulsar pulled a lot better out of corners. Fix up the handling and they’d be good little jiggers.

[MYLO_XR6]

nice sleeper.....VALIANT CL REGAL with a 265 hemi...a right cam and bolt on's will get it into the 14's easy....very cheap to mod!!!

[Josh L]

My first car was a 60 series Landcruiser. Awesome fun. Handled like a truck and was just as tuff. Thrashed and bashed it into the ground. I've had a couple of nissan exas, 1.6l and a 1.8l, VL Berlina (*shudders*) and the XE Ute. All fairly decent thrashers. I was brought up... Buy a thrasher... drive almost to destruction and then get yourself a decent car. Don't worry about power and such. Any car can be fun.

Originally Posted by chris0

Hard pressed getting 14's, 15's can be achieved pretty easily with exhaust+timing+cai+good launch. N/A 14's = cams+tune
They only weigh ~1050kg. Not having a dig at you or anything, but i drive one everyday

My brother drives one everyday. They are a mid-high 15 sec car stock but most N/A I see at WSID are 15.2-15.5, although I have NFI what mods they may or may not have.

I love how torquey they are low down compared to the 10 year newer Duratec 2.0. And I can appriciate how a low weight car doesn't need a high power engine to perform. My first car was a N12 Pulsar ~700kg lol.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

They aren't an invasion of civil liberty. No one is stopping you from having a high performance car. They are stopping you from having a high performance vehicle on public roads. If you notice that a lot of the slightly more experienced performance car enthusiasts on this forum have a high performance track/weekend car, and a modest "daily". It's funny how many young drivers paint themselves as performance enthusiasts yet whenever I go to test and tunes the 17-21 year olds are few and far between.

It is an invasion of civil liberties. Why should a certain age group be restricted from doing something that everyone else can? Why should it be one country in the civilised world that does it, that's supposed to be free and have a good living standard? Why accept that?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Steffo


Mmm 172 Cup. I thought they eventually made ABS an option on those things.
Clio V6 – a Clio owner on another forum claimed that you could bring them in new from NZ when they were still making them for about $70k.

It’s always hard to judge how good/bad a car performs at least on a track you hope that the driver has some idea or at least is willing to take steps to improve their performance. Sometimes it is hard to tell the mods and track conditions at least with the Vic tracks I’ve got some idea of what they should achieve. At Sandown a stock DC2R on RE540s should be doing around 1:33 (according to a guy who raced them in GTP years ago). There are some quicker ones (Steven Wong around 1:25-somethings from memory) but his car is far from a road car. Some of the ITRs have been fiddled with (but also some of their drivers are 5h1t and some of the mods are backwards steps so it evens out I guess).

TopGear times have to be taken with a grain of salt – the track layout isn’t fixed (marked by witches hats), different days and different Stigs – still the Clio’s times look good given those qualifying statements. Motor looked like they got 1:47.16 out of a Clio in PCOTY 2005 and a DC2R is a sniff quicker there but that may be down to gearing or something for that particular track – I’m looking for 1:43 (maybe 1:42 with a good driver) on RE55’s (a friend driving my car did 1:43 on “slower” RE540s). Good drivers in DC2R’s on R spec rubber can do 1:58’s down at Phillip Island. A stock DC2R on R spec rubber will beat most stock V8s under brakes and in the turns and Greg Cricks mildly tweaked DC2R was a giant killer in Targa Tassie. If your RSC is close (or better) than an ITR you will have an absolute ball with it. A friend who races the ADM DC5R and services my DC2R loves the improved rigidity of the shell, stronger engine of the newer model but reckons they threw away any gains by reverting to a cheaper suspension.

I haven’t seen that many RenaultSports down here on the roads (they have that “stealth” element) and haven’t encountered any on track days so it’s hard for me to compare. The closest I’ve come are Peugeot 205/306 GTi’s and various Alpines (4 and 6 cyl). The Clio always seemed to offer incredible value for money and if they had come out a month or two earlier I probably would’ve bought one. As it is I walk past a light blue (Gordini Blue?) example with white stripes almost everyday and think that could’ve been me.

Good luck on the track and keep on lifting those rear wheels in the air!

The Top Grear track never varies in layout, however I do agree that the accuracy of the times is a degree lower then a test by someone like EVO or even MOTOR etc.

The problem with importing the Clio V6 here has to do with crash saftey regulations or something, from what I understand. There is one I know of in Australia, and the guy who owns it owned it for 1 year+ overseas and brought it back with him - which you can get away with. Its a Renaultsport Clio V6 255 (Phase II) with the 255hp (190kW) 3.0L V6 and the newer front.

The 172 Cup never had ABS. The 182 Cup did. The 172 was far more of a stripper model then the 182 Cup turned out to be... but then again, there's the 182 Trophy...

The biggest surprise to me was how the S2k goes in comparison to the RSC and ITR. I was expecting them to be alot better but they're... well... not.

In the latest Motor they test the new Clio 197 R27 F1 from o/s and they mention that the Clio 197 (based on new Clio III) will be here in early 08. 145kW @ 7250rpm, 215Nm @ 5550rpm, 6sp gearbox (up from 5sp in 182/172). 1240kg, so its 105kg lighter then the new CTR which has similar power and less torque... but its also a fair bit heavier then the 172 (1035) and 182 (1090). Interestingly though, Renault claims 6.9 0-100 for it compared to 7.1 for the 182 and 7.3 for the 172. All of the times being nice and conservative of course, seeing as EVO did it in 6.6 in the 172 way back when.

I really want to do Eastern Creek in the RSC... and wouldn't mind doing Sandown in Vic (always liked that track).

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by chris0

Hard pressed getting 14's, 15's can be achieved pretty easily with exhaust+timing+cai+good launch. N/A 14's = cams+tune
They only weigh ~1050kg. Not having a dig at you or anything, but i drive one everyday

The N14 Pulsar SSS is 1141kg.
The N15 Pulsar SSS is 1142kg.

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by Steffo

It is an invasion of civil liberties. Why should a certain age group be restricted from doing something that everyone else can? Why should it be one country in the civilised world that does it, that's supposed to be free and have a good living standard? Why accept that?

Carp!

Would you like cheese with that whine?

It's recognition of the FACT that young drivers are inexperienced. Everyone has rules and restrictions in life and most live them by. That's the way society maintains itself.
It's the same as many things in life from an apprenticeship to graduating from a Degree and working in professional practice to climbing up the working ladder. You learn and you move forward with less restrictions but everyone has some.
There are always exceptions but we all have experienced restrictions due to minority behaviour.

[XR8-260]

Integra type-R. I'm not sure if they are p plate legal though. They can run a 14.7 second 1/4 mile (stock/stockish) from what I saw at the drags. They are very peaky though.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Steffo

It is an invasion of civil liberties. Why should a certain age group be restricted from doing something that everyone else can? Why should it be one country in the civilised world that does it, that's supposed to be free and have a good living standard? Why accept that?

Why cant you drink in pubs at 14?

250cc for L's?

[TEaaron]

Get a cordia with unique cooling system. It will run 13's all day. Just make sure you fix the torque steer problem.

[TZENU]

I will never understand the thought process of the government..

Cant have an 8, turbo 6 or 4 blah blah blah...


Here is an idea
Go out get your bike licence ... then a buy a GSXR or the likes that will blow every single car on the road away... Why haven't they put a stop to a scenario like this????

Not enough young riders being killed????

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Steffo

It is an invasion of civil liberties. Why should a certain age group be restricted from doing something that everyone else can? Why should it be one country in the civilised world that does it, that's supposed to be free and have a good living standard? Why accept that?

Yes but they don't let people walk around with loaded guns either and although some people may see that as an invasion of privacy the majority can see that the law results in fewer deaths.

Anybody can have a high performance car nobody is denying your right to have one.

They are denying you the privilege to drive it on public roads.

[Zetec20]

decent cheap car would be an older corolla with a 4age (1.6L 100kw) engine in it, you can get them in either the sx or the gti's

they're nice light cars that can put alot of things to shame, and if you feel the need in future, drop the 4agze (same but supercharged) in there hand have some more fun

Originally Posted by Zetec20

decent cheap car would be an older corolla with a 4age (1.6L 100kw) engine in it, you can get them in either the sx or the gti's

they're nice light cars that can put alot of things to shame, and if you feel the need in future, drop the 4agze (same but supercharged) in there hand have some more fun

Beware the mum's car. :P

Originally Posted by TEaaron

Get a cordia with unique cooling system. It will run 13's all day. Just make sure you fix the torque steer problem.

You need to be wearing empty Toob packets to get into the 13s

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Carp!

Would you like cheese with that whine?

It's recognition of the FACT that young drivers are inexperienced. Everyone has rules and restrictions in life and most live them by. That's the way society maintains itself.
It's the same as many things in life from an apprenticeship to graduating from a Degree and working in professional practice to climbing up the working ladder. You learn and you move forward with less restrictions but everyone has some.
There are always exceptions but we all have experienced restrictions due to minority behaviour.

Australia is the only civilised first world country in the world that in certain states enforces these restrictions upon its population. Don't forget its not nation-wide either... if it were such a life-saving legislation, don't you think it would be?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Yes but they don't let people walk around with loaded guns either and although some people may see that as an invasion of privacy the majority can see that the law results in fewer deaths.

Anybody can have a high performance car nobody is denying your right to have one.

They are denying you the privilege to drive it on public roads.

The notion in this country that driving is a privilege is well...

The law (P-Plate restrictions, not guns) has not resulted in fewer deaths, rather its resulted in more deaths and the newer laws will result in even more deaths then previously, since now they're more then doubling the amount of young P-Plate drivers on the road following each other around at night since they can't carry passengers.

The fewer deaths from the gun thing is debateable. There are countries that allow the populace to own guns that have a lower murder rate then Australia does. I'm also firmly against Australia's gun laws too. They don't kill people, people kill people. Take away guns and the weapons will become knives or blunt objects... somehow take that away and people still have their hands, and will use them.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The notion in this country that driving is a privilege is well...

The law (P-Plate restrictions, not guns) has not resulted in fewer deaths, rather its resulted in more deaths and the newer laws will result in even more deaths then previously, since now they're more then doubling the amount of young P-Plate drivers on the road following each other around at night since they can't carry passengers.

The fewer deaths from the gun thing is debateable. There are countries that allow the populace to own guns that have a lower murder rate then Australia does. I'm also firmly against Australia's gun laws too. They don't kill people, people kill people. Take away guns and the weapons will become knives or blunt objects... somehow take that away and people still have their hands, and will use them.

The law hasn't resulted in more deaths. Provisional drivers die because they quite simply drive "beyond their skill level". They believe that because they completed Gran Turismo in record time that they have the skill set of a race car driver. They believe because they were able to do a 3 point turn and reverse park in test conditions they are just as skilled as someone that has been driving for thirty years. So what you have to wait 3 years to get a performance car... you had to wait 16 years to drive it anyway.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

The law hasn't resulted in more deaths. Provisional drivers die because they quite simply drive "beyond their skill level". They believe that because they completed Gran Turismo in record time that they have the skill set of a race car driver. They believe because they were able to do a 3 point turn and reverse park in test conditions they are just as skilled as someone that has been driving for thirty years. So what you have to wait 3 years to get a performance car... you had to wait 16 years to drive it anyway.

Nice generalisation. Please in future refrain from telling me what I believe, because what you have said resembles what I believe in no way, shape or form.

I am a performance car enthusiast. I am a car enthusiast in general. I enjoy driving and am forever looking at ways to improve on my driving. I make sure I am well aware of the conditions on the road, traffic and what not and adjust my driving to suit. I make sure to pay attention to what other morons on the road are doing, lest they do something that could cause harm to me. I am a P-Plater though, so according to you, I think because I completed Gran Turismo (despite never having owned a playstation in my life) I am Michael Schumacher, which is not the case.

The laws are garbage. They help nothing. The deaths in NSW for P-Plate have steadily increased since their introduction, and will do so again. Rather then actually teach people how to drive and handle a motor vehicle, they impose dictatorship-esque restrictions on their freedom to drive what they choose to. That's not good leadership, that's horrible leadership with no true concern for its populace, just filling someone high up's pockets and projecting a false image as if they're "trying," to fix a problem they've done nothing but make worse.

I am glad I've beaten their idiotic laws. I hope others do. Better yet, it would make my day if every P-Plate driver in NSW and Victoria bought a restricted vehicle. What would they do then, cancel all their licences? Not likely...

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

The law hasn't resulted in more deaths. Provisional drivers die because they quite simply drive "beyond their skill level". They believe that because they completed Gran Turismo in record time that they have the skill set of a race car driver. They believe because they were able to do a 3 point turn and reverse park in test conditions they are just as skilled as someone that has been driving for thirty years. So what you have to wait 3 years to get a performance car... you had to wait 16 years to drive it anyway.

now this isn't fair ... some of us YOUNGER drivers are FAR better than the older ones ... and who the hell plays Grand Tourismo? its GTA all the way now? ... and yes, i believe i can hijack a car and out run the cops and get it re-sprayed for a mere $100 :

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