HSV W427 vs other high powered V8 and turbo 6 cylinder sedans

[jpd80]

Guys in fairness my response of two years was in direct reference to plucka's statement thus:

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck
But if ford go down that road with all there performance cars being turbo or supercharged then i will SWITCH TO HOLDEN.
One more gone to the dark side

I took that as when all FPVS and Fords were forced induction which was two years ago.

And I too am confused, one moment we'r talking 640 hp LS9 and the next if FPV goes forced induction, I will switch to Holden/HSV...

FPV finally gives Ford enthusiasts the gun weapon of choice and some here want to go throw in with Holden...(breaks down and sobs)

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Guys in fairness my response of two years was in direct reference to plucka's statement thus:

I took that as when all FPVS and Fords were forced induction which was two years ago.

And I too am confused, one moment we'r talking 640 hp LS9 and the next if FPV goes forced induction, I will switch to Holden/HSV...

FPV finally gives Ford enthusiasts the gun weapon of choice and some here want to go throw in with Holden...(breaks down and sobs)

no matter what Ford/FPV does it never pleases the crittics.

[I8hsv]

Has anyone actually taken the time to read all the specs on the w427 from front to back top to bottom the thing is pretty well set up I'd like to see how much change you would get from 155k setting up a standard gt f6 gs or hsv to compete on the same level as this thing that's including buying the care setting every thing up and keeping it road legal !

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by wildrider

no matter what Ford/FPV does it never pleases the crittics.

Dont be confused. I'm not.
I was just pointing out the s/c LS9 engine as a comparison to fords S/C
Engines.
For me its normally aspirated. And sorry to spoil your fun lads but my N/A
5.9 litre is 570k/w.No computers ,no boost, no nitrous
Bring on your girly hair dryers, they belong in the beauty parlour or your missus cupboard

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by Cambo351

Forced induction is the way of the future, you cannot deny facts.

Ford & FPV = Supercharged Coyote, and don't forget the GT in the US, 5.4L modular with a Lysholm twin-screw, the Mustangs with Eatons, and then the XR6-Turbo, F6, G6E, etc..

Jaguar = Supercharged V8's and now S/C V6's too, in the past S/C inline six

Audi = Twin Turbo V8 & now V10 in the RS6, lots of Turbocharged models

BMW = Ditched the N/A 5.0L V10 in the M5 for a twin-turbo V8

Merc/AMG = All the big guns have been Kompressor's

Almost every Japanese hi-po has been turbocharged since the 90's

The XR6-Turbo rearranged the Aussie muscle car scene...

And, and, and...

Fair dinkum...........
This truley is laughable. Carrol Shelby( or should i say GOD of muscle cars)
Had a Twin Supercharged 427 Ac cobra's in 1964. 900 BHP/ 670kw
Studebaker had S/C Cars in the late 1950's

Thats 50 years ago........LOL
But you Gen y's think you have done it all.. Problem is you are to young to know it all.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Fair dinkum...........
This truley is laughable. Carrol Shelby( or should i say GOD of muscle cars)
Had a Twin Supercharged 427 Ac cobra's in 1964. 900 BHP/ 670kw
Studebaker had S/C Cars in the late 1950's

Thats 50 years ago........LOL
But you Gen y's think you have done it all.. Problem is you are to young to know it all.

force induction will be way of the future as manufacturers look for ways too make engines more efficient. expect too see more turbo diesels on the road for example

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by wildrider

force induction will be way of the future as manufacturers look for ways too make engines more efficient. expect too see more turbo diesels on the road for example

Sorry to burst your bubble wildrider.
But there all things of the past.........lol
And the buyer has the power. You keep buying turbo,s that dont last
they will keep selling them.
Why is it N/A vechiles will produce 4 or 5 times the milage of turbo cars before they need a rebuild ????

[Cambo351]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Fair dinkum...........
This truley is laughable. Carrol Shelby( or should i say GOD of muscle cars)
Had a Twin Supercharged 427 Ac cobra's in 1964. 900 BHP/ 670kw
Studebaker had S/C Cars in the late 1950's

Thats 50 years ago........LOL
But you Gen y's think you have done it all.. Problem is you are to young to know it all.

Hmmm, pretty presumptuous. I'm actually a Gen X, and i'm going to presume that you are a grumpy baby-boomer.

But why is that laughable? Just because something is the "way of the future" doesn't mean that it has to be a new idea...

I listed production cars, that roll off the production line in numbers. Shelby hand-built two Twin Supercharged 427's, hardly a comparison...

Studebakers were good but suffered because they were expensive, and the recession at the end of the 50's put an end em.

Wildrider is spot on and i'm afraid Plucka, you're looking in the wrong direction mate.

Turbo diesels are massively popular in Europe. Why? Because most will do >50mpg and have become as smooth & powerful as petrols. People want to buy them.

It's a fact that engine capacities are heading down, and the difference is being made up by forced induction &/or smarter, more efficient designs.

Get with the trend or get left behind!

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Why is it N/A vechiles will produce 4 or 5 times the milage of turbo cars before they need a rebuild ????

Well i mate of mine just put a 2005 Jaguar S-Type Twin Turbo Diesel out to pasture with 450'000kms on it. Nothing wrong with the engine, never had any Turbo related problems. The rear wheel bearings were gone, the transmission worn out and the brakes needed replacing, not worth spending the money, so it was exported to Syria.

But it's OK, obviously you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong...

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by Cambo351

Hmmm, pretty presumptuous. I'm actually a Gen X, and i'm going to presume that you are a grumpy baby-boomer.

But why is that laughable? Just because something is the "way of the future" doesn't mean that it has to be a new idea...

I listed production cars, that roll off the production line in numbers. Shelby hand-built two Twin Supercharged 427's, hardly a comparison...

Studebakers were good but suffered because they were expensive, and the recession at the end of the 50's put an end em.

Wildrider is spot on and i'm afraid Plucka, you're looking in the wrong direction mate.

Turbo diesels are massively popular in Europe. Why? Because most will do >50mpg and have become as smooth & powerful as petrols. People want to buy them.

It's a fact that engine capacities are heading down, and the difference is being made up by forced induction &/or smarter, more efficient designs.

Get with the trend or get left behind!


Well i mate of mine just put a 2005 Jaguar S-Type Twin Turbo Diesel out to pasture with 450'000kms on it. Nothing wrong with the engine, never had any Turbo related problems. The rear wheel bearings were gone, the transmission worn out and the brakes needed replacing, not worth spending the money, so it was exported to Syria.

But it's OK, obviously you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong...

Hmmmmmmm...........Maybe your friends twin turbo Jag was really a black taxi based on your qouted figure. Seeing the average cab in europe does 70,000 per year average.... See below

Nissan says the NV200 will be cheaper to buy than the TX4 and – based on the 70,000km average yearly mileage of a black cab and the NV200’s better fuel economy – should also save drivers roughly $1000 in fuel per year.

And yet again...Below is from europe, and another turbo diesel.

The problems suffered by the Woods, from Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire, highlights the rising cost of repairs for diesel cars, and the rights consumers may, or may not, have when they buy a used car that's more than three years old.
When the RAC turned up to rescue the Woods, it diagnosed a failed turbo, and took the car back to Sky Ford.
The mechanics first replaced a fuel filter, but then decided the RAC man was right, and that the problem was a failed turbo. They warned the couple that installing a reconditioned unit would cost around £1,700.
According to a letter sent by Sky Ford to the Woods, after it fitted a replacement turbo and ran the engine for a few minutes, they were forced to move the car out of the workshop because it was smoking so much.

They failed in the 50's and 60's and they will fail again.....

Smell the roses

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Sorry to burst your bubble wildrider.
But there all things of the past.........lol
And the buyer has the power. You keep buying turbo,s that dont last
they will keep selling them.
Why is it N/A vechiles will produce 4 or 5 times the milage of turbo cars before they need a rebuild ????

plenty of turbo diesels getting about with high milage. my mates turbo diesel GU patrol still drives ok with 500,000kms on the clock. no rebuild yet still runs fine!! they will always sell. there are many advantages a turbo has over a naturally asparated motor

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by wildrider

plenty of turbo diesels getting about with high milage. my mates turbo diesel GU patrol still drives ok with 500,000kms on the clock. no rebuild yet still runs fine!! they will always sell. there are many advantages a turbo has over a naturally asparated motor

Hmmmmmmm......maybe the patrol is a taxi too by the amount of kilometres on it.
But wait ...here is more evidence of the diesel failure in europe.............................There doomed

The Mazda 6 is a perfect case in point. The petrol-engined cars are highly praised by owners for their excellent reliability. The 2.0 litre diesel models though have suffered a spate of expensive problems, including engine failures. Mazda are by no means alone in this issue.
Unless you drive high mileages – 18,000-plus annually – you will probably be better off buying a petrol vehicle, is the general view – unless you know its history.
One of the problems is that diesel cars are now so sophisticated that many dealer mechanics don't know what they are doing. If you have been quoted an astronomical figure by the dealer to resolve a problem, try a specialist instead. Feather Diesel Services in Halifax have won plaudits from customers for both service and price.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Hmmmmmmm...........Maybe your friends twin turbo Jag was really a black taxi based on your qouted figure. Seeing the average cab in europe does 70,000 per year average.... See below

Nissan says the NV200 will be cheaper to buy than the TX4 and – based on the 70,000km average yearly mileage of a black cab and the NV200’s better fuel economy – should also save drivers roughly $1000 in fuel per year.

And yet again...Below is from europe, and another turbo diesel.

The problems suffered by the Woods, from Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire, highlights the rising cost of repairs for diesel cars, and the rights consumers may, or may not, have when they buy a used car that's more than three years old.
When the RAC turned up to rescue the Woods, it diagnosed a failed turbo, and took the car back to Sky Ford.
The mechanics first replaced a fuel filter, but then decided the RAC man was right, and that the problem was a failed turbo. They warned the couple that installing a reconditioned unit would cost around £1,700.
According to a letter sent by Sky Ford to the Woods, after it fitted a replacement turbo and ran the engine for a few minutes, they were forced to move the car out of the workshop because it was smoking so much.

They failed in the 50's and 60's and they will fail again.....

Smell the roses

well the XR6 turbo certainly hasnt failed now has it?? I love the note most V8s have but those XR6 turbos give alot of V8s a good scare!! why are turbos heavily used in diesel applications if there no good?? if you seriously beleive that they have failed you have been living under a rock for the last 50 years

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Hmmmmmmm......maybe the patrol is a taxi too by the amount of kilometres on it.
But wait ...here is more evidence of the diesel failure in europe.............................There doomed

The Mazda 6 is a perfect case in point. The petrol-engined cars are highly praised by owners for their excellent reliability. The 2.0 litre diesel models though have suffered a spate of expensive problems, including engine failures. Mazda are by no means alone in this issue.
Unless you drive high mileages – 18,000-plus annually – you will probably be better off buying a petrol vehicle, is the general view – unless you know its history.
One of the problems is that diesel cars are now so sophisticated that many dealer mechanics don't know what they are doing. If you have been quoted an astronomical figure by the dealer to resolve a problem, try a specialist instead. Feather Diesel Services in Halifax have won plaudits from customers for both service and price.

yea i guess thats why most heavy vehicles are diesel too. never seen a mazda 6 haul 42 tonnes before

[PlukaDuck]

And yet another diesel turbo fiasco...... Thats enough for now as there are literally thousands of problems listed on the net with turbo diesels. Get with the program lads.
EVERYONE IS GOING BACK TO PETROL.


My Focus Studio TDCi suffered turbo failure last February. I took it to my garage and they quoted me £1300 to replace and flush out the engine etc. At that time I wasn't aware of the problems surrounding turbos on these models. Apparently the engine is manufactured by Peuoget and is used across a number of different manufacturers cars including the Stuido TDCi.
Last week, just four months later the turbo failed again. My garage then took it to the local Ford main dealer.
When I rang to enquire about the repair, they said they were still having problems getting parts and cleaning out the engine. When I questioned them more closely, I asked what would they do if after this repair the turbo went again.
Their reply was basically nothing - apparently you only get one chance at a warranty claim such as this, and after that you are on your own. The guy in the showroom told me to contact the orginal supplier of the vehicle.
Ford it seems just walk away from warranty claims on an engine which is known to have major turbo problems.
Is this right, can they refuse to repair the turbo again? The car has been serviced regularly, is a 55 plate with 50.000 on the clock - hardly old for a diesel.

[Cambo351]

Originally Posted by wildrider

if you seriously beleive that they have failed you have been living under a rock for the last 50 years

I suspect he has...

[PlukaDuck]

WILDRIDER. This threads about cars not trucks.
Maybe better to start a thread on trucks. Maybe you can include airplanes
as well.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

And yet another diesel turbo fiasco...... Thats enough for now as there are literally thousands of problems listed on the net with turbo diesels. Get with the program lads.
EVERYONE IS GOING BACK TO PETROL.


My Focus Studio TDCi suffered turbo failure last February. I took it to my garage and they quoted me £1300 to replace and flush out the engine etc. At that time I wasn't aware of the problems surrounding turbos on these models. Apparently the engine is manufactured by Peuoget and is used across a number of different manufacturers cars including the Stuido TDCi.
Last week, just four months later the turbo failed again. My garage then took it to the local Ford main dealer.
When I rang to enquire about the repair, they said they were still having problems getting parts and cleaning out the engine. When I questioned them more closely, I asked what would they do if after this repair the turbo went again.
Their reply was basically nothing - apparently you only get one chance at a warranty claim such as this, and after that you are on your own. The guy in the showroom told me to contact the orginal supplier of the vehicle.
Ford it seems just walk away from warranty claims on an engine which is known to have major turbo problems.
Is this right, can they refuse to repair the turbo again? The car has been serviced regularly, is a 55 plate with 50.000 on the clock - hardly old for a diesel.

there are literally Miliions of problems on the net with petrols cars too. doesnt make them a bad either does it? here in australia look around theres no shortages of turbo diesel utes. the hilux is very common and alot of people recommend the turbo diesel models over the petrols.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

WILDRIDER. This threads about cars not trucks.
Maybe better to start a thread on trucks. Maybe you can include airplanes
as well.

i'm just stating if there so unrealiable why are they used in heavy vehicles??

[Cambo351]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

This threads about cars not trucks.

No it just seems to be about you now...

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by wildrider

i'm just stating if there so unrealiable why are they used in heavy vehicles??

Basically diesel is used in trucks because of economics.
More in long haul vechiles. If you search around abit on the net you will find that CNG is starting to make a presence in heavy haulage.

Some good reading there.
Also CNG is becoming very popular in the pacific asia arena for cars and trucks.

Hey the turbo debate will go on forever and ever. And fuel prices vary greatly between differant countries which can sway people either way
when buying diesel or petrol or LPG or CNG

Getting back to your original post......tell your mate they only sold 200 of them because knowbody wanted one.....

[tex]

The last dozen posts have been very worthwhile, I didn't know the w427 was ear marked for a 6bt cummins in the next iteration.

Glad you boys stayed up so late to debate its merits.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Dont be confused. I'm not.
I was just pointing out the s/c LS9 engine as a comparison to fords S/C
Engines.
For me its normally aspirated. And sorry to spoil your fun lads but my N/A

Have you even gone for a ride in a new GT?

5.9 litre is 570k/w.No computers ,no boost, no nitrous
Bring on your girly hair dryers, they belong in the beauty parlour or your missus cupboard

Obviously not factory, do you have problems with the transport department driving on the road?

[red_hotxr6]

And at the end of the day the speed limit, is still between 40 and 110 klms, for either hsv or fpv, but if i had the money, i would be getting the fpv.....period...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

And at the end of the day the speed limit, is still between 40 and 110 klms, for either hsv or fpv, but if i had the money, i would be getting the fpv.....period...

Exactly.
Some people dismiss the GS or GT without ever going for a ride - something guaranteed to change a lot of minds..

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ummm, one second you are raving about the virtues of LS9 (which is a SUPERCHARGED engine) and then you rabbit on about how if Ford move away from N/A (which they did about two years ago) you will go to Holden.

Duck you certainly are plucked........

And even posted a Lingenfelter Corvette. They are factory right....

[jpd80]

From what I'm perceiving of this thread, the W427 is a rare example of a large capacity NA engine in a performance car
and even though HSV doesn't sell a 7.0 engine these days, their 6.2 is a close approximation with the right parts.

I wonder how much of the desire for a 7.0 litre engine is reactance, people say you can't have one
so buyers then insist on having one. Car enthuiasts are a funny lot, give them what they want
and two groups emerge, those that willingly pay and those that continue to complain.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Dont be confused. I'm not.
I was just pointing out the s/c LS9 engine as a comparison to fords S/C
Engines.
For me its normally aspirated. And sorry to spoil your fun lads but my N/A
5.9 litre is 570k/w.No computers ,no boost, no nitrous
Bring on your girly hair dryers, they belong in the beauty parlour or your missus cupboard

What is your n/a 5.9L? How steetable is it and what is the economy like. Most of the modern blown cars have street manners as well as the runs in the board at the strip.

[Rusty62]

The fact is that the W427 is well and truly collectable, even if its not up with today's fast fords. Never driven one, but surely they would be an awesome car. The lucky owners of these things, have certainly got bragging rights for owning a piece of automotive history even though they've probably lost more than $50k by now, they will eventually hold value or increase just because they are rare and one of a kind.
Somewhere in the future when we are driving 7 second 1/4 mile hydrogen powered wizardry , someone will want an old school big block commondore, even if its a bit slow by then

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by burnz

was that born in the USA, or dancing in the dark?

isn't a ford turbo 6 just a couple of tenths slower than the wd40 over the quarter
i mean, if the small block ls engines are that close to the 427 in acceleration then why did holden need to put a $23,000 engine in the wd40 to only go 1 tenth faster

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

isn't a ford turbo 6 just a couple of tenths slower than the wd40 over the quarter
i mean, if the small block ls engines are that close to the 427 in acceleration then why did holden need to put a $23,000 engine in the wd40 to only go 1 tenth faster

I think Mr Walkingshaw was trying to improve on this car, but the Aussie authorities wouldn't allow it....He did bolt a S/C on one (or more) in England and do some testing...But it failed the Aussie ADR's and he wasn't prepared to make the necessary changes to get it to comply.

So he was trying to get the bigger improvement