Holden to make "important announcement" about its VIC and SA operations

[Lukeyson]

As pointed out earlier in this thread, these days if you say you are buying an "Aussie made big car" (com/falc) it makes people turn their noses up, and if you like big aussie cars, you are a bogan.
Bogans are bad mmmkay

[jmack]

what im about to say is not being racist but just daily observations,asian buy asian cars (u only have to b around greives pde at knock of time to c that ,and thats another point have a look at toyotas workers carpark and its full of them and then check out fords says it all )and if they are well off it is then a merc a bmw etc as it is a status symbol of success,middle eastern buy european because after all they are taxis over there,young guys are into fast and furios crap and as has been previously posted a fare few have had bad dealings with dealers which have also turned people away for good and with only a certain pool of new car buyers around they have made it hard for themselves

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Could probably design the Falcon here, build it in Thailand with the Fiesta and Focus, get it to $29,990 drive away.

But no one would buy it regardless if it was $29,990, or $29 because its a Falcon.

Unfortunately its got a bad image with joe public for what ever reasons.

What a stupid thing to say i would rather drive a Falcon than a crappy Focus that everybody has to squeeze into and can`t tow a trailer. Have you ever owned a Falcon? Some people want a more comfortable car that can fit 5 people in comfortably and doesn`t need to be revved to go up hills.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Very strange misdirection considering a lot of international trade is done in US dollars,
A currency that has slid significantly against the Aussie dollar.

That would then be a misdirected misdirection. the majority of international trade may be done in US dollars, but in the end it gets converted to the home companies currency. BHP may sell some of its iron ore to a Japanese trading house in US dollars, but that trading house sells that iron ore to its customers in yen, it then converts that yen to us dollars, then pays BHP, who then converts that US dollars into Australian dollars so it can pay its workers at pilbara in australian dollars (not done exactly that way, ie mostly electronic, but you get the point). At either end of the supply chain, no one gets to see a US dollar, and apart from small movements in the US dollar from start to finish of transactions, would the US dollar (c0nversion rate) have any effect of the transaction.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by stang65

What a stupid thing to say i would rather drive a Falcon than a crappy Focus that everybody has to squeeze into and can`t tow a trailer. Have you ever owned a Falcon? Some people want a more comfortable car that can fit 5 people in comfortably and doesn`t need to be revved to go up hills.

Funny that, given I've got:

2010 LV TDCI Focus
2009 WS Fiesta
2001 GMC Sierra
1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Have you even driven any new small car thats newer than 1970?

My Focus is diesel, it weighs less than my EL Fairmont Ghia and puts out about the same amount of torque and lower in the range, it would pull a 6x4 better than the Falcon would.

For a large car, there ain't much room in the drivers seat in the EL Fairmont Ghia, the person I bought it off, ditched it for this very reason (replaced with a 2001 Ford Escape), he's 6'2" tall and he barely can drive it in the seat fully back position, his son who is my apprentice can't comfortably drive it and he's 6'4", his knees hit up against the steering wheel and his legs are bent.

Yet my Fiesta and Focus are more comfortable for them to drive? There is more leg room in the front seats, and the steering column moves in/out/up/down and the seat up/down.

Oh and the Focus is capable of carrying my tools and any other assorted crap which floats around in my car in the back, unlike the Fairmont Ghia. Its more practical to load/unload the toolbox loaded and standing up, then try lay it on its back in the boot of a sedan, or on the back seat trying to get it out the rear doors.

The only good quality about it, is it floats over bumps, and the back seat is comfortable for passengers, good long trip car, thats about it.

Its slow, even with ported/polished head, bigger exhaust valves, full exhaust, high flow cat, stiffer valve springs and cam. It Handles like the Costa Concordia and has eleventy million electrical problems.

Also when was the last time you saw a Falcon/Commodore pulling anything larger than a 6x4? Everyone moved to dual cab 4X4s and SUVs for that sort of work.

We'll put my GMC Sierra against your Falcon if you want to have a towing contest See what your piddly petrol 4L Inline 6 can do against 6.5L of Detroit Diesel turbo V8.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

That would then be a misdirected misdirection. the majority of international trade may be done in US dollars, but in the end it gets converted to the home companies currency. BHP may sell some of its iron ore to a Japanese trading house in US dollars, but that trading house sells that iron ore to its customers in yen, it then converts that yen to us dollars, then pays BHP, who then converts that US dollars into Australian dollars so it can pay its workers at pilbara in australian dollars (not done exactly that way, ie mostly electronic, but you get the point). At either end of the supply chain, no one gets to see a US dollar, and apart from small movements in the US dollar from start to finish of transactions, would the US dollar (c0nversion rate) have any effect of the transaction.

Yes. As some transactions/prices may be locked in a year or so ahead.
They are not done like an internet sale and a credit card.
Currency fluctuations can have big effect.

[Scott]

I think..

Ford & Holden are seen as "bogan brands" by the car buying masses and they failed to identify the sweet spot in our market at the time when it really counted.

I can't see either becoming a "home-grown darling" in the near future, in our small population it'll take a new generation to get on board and make them seriously relevant again.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Yes. As some transactions/prices may be locked in a year or so ahead.
They are not done like an internet sale and a credit card.
Currency fluctuations can have big effect.

Currency fluctuations can have a big effect, but it has nothing to do with the US dollar being used as a global trading currency.

Thats why you can convert most currencies from one country to another. If I want to buy Yen, I dont have to go and buy a US dollar with my aus dollar and then use the US dollar to buy yen. The US dollar is simply used as a "base" for comparisons. I was being a bit "simple" before in the explanation.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stang65

What a stupid thing to say i would rather drive a Falcon than a crappy Focus that everybody has to squeeze into and can`t tow a trailer. Have you ever owned a Falcon? Some people want a more comfortable car that can fit 5 people in comfortably and doesn`t need to be revved to go up hills.

that's what I love about falcon!!! but it cant compete with the idiots that complain about fuel etc. I got told buy some idiot at the servo when I put fuel in my ute a couple of months ago I should run it on LPG. I said why??? it runs fine now as it is and i'm happy with it. the only car i'll buy that's LPG is one from the factory. pretty much told is she going too pay for the LPG conversion?? didn't say much after that. I was wondering too. with the amount of diesels getting sold more and more are we going too see more runaway diesels on the side of the roads??? I honestly doubt some of the "keeping up with the jones" people would know what too do in that situation??

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Joshua Dowling making excuses but no outcry about Australian tax dollars going to waste.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226615044540

He pretty much does here.

http://www.news.com.au/opinion/oi-ho...-1226615946918

[Scott]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

He pretty much does here.

Pretty succinct really:

Originally Posted by JOSHUA DOWLING

Hey Holden - I want my money back

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

He pretty much does here.

http://www.news.com.au/opinion/oi-ho...-1226615946918

I am shocked

[Mick K.]

I don't think we can blame the state of the auto industry on people not wanting to buy an Aussie assembled Cruze, that is outclassed by the majority of its imported competitors.

Hilux has been the best selling vehicle in Australia for years and a lot of big sellers are also commercial vehicles and SUVs. The Territory is the only SUV made in Australia and Ford can't afford a massive revamp of its 2004 underpinnings. There are no dual cabs assembled here to support the resources sector that is otherwise underpinning the Aus ecomony.

Maybe if the Aus car makers were not propped up by government funds for so long they would have moved with the market forces and maybe Ranger and Captiva would be have replaced the slow selling large cars on Australian production lines a long time ago.

Either the whole industry is about to go or at best there will be some local assembly of foreign made cars, maybe with some Australian input into design? Sad to see, but reality is the cars being made here are not being bought, are not able to be sold cheap enough to compete with imports and our workers aren't able to compete with cheap overseas labour.

MK

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

He pretty much does here.

http://www.news.com.au/opinion/oi-ho...-1226615946918

That article brings up a question for me. I keep hearing on here that Ford Aust has much better cost control base then Holden. However, Holden builds twice has many cars, yet only employees 50 more people? Wouldn't that make it the other way round??

[jpd80]

Yesterday we asked the boss of Holden, Mike Devereux, if Australian taxpayers got good value for money. Three times. And three times Mr Devereux did not answer the question, instead talking about the sensitivity of future negotiations.

But if the boss of Holden can’t say Australian taxpayers are getting good value for money, who will?

Does this have a familiar ring?

I now expect a straw man argument to rival the likes perpetrated against Ford.

It is only at the end that Holden fans will realise just how two faced the once generous press now are...

Welcome to the club, Holden...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Scott

Pretty succinct really:

Hell hath no fury.......

[Nikked]

Can't say im to fond of the storm brewing...

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Funny that, given I've got:

2010 LV TDCI Focus
2009 WS Fiesta
2001 GMC Sierra
1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Have you even driven any new small car thats newer than 1970?

My Focus is diesel, it weighs less than my EL Fairmont Ghia and puts out about the same amount of torque and lower in the range, it would pull a 6x4 better than the Falcon would.

For a large car, there ain't much room in the drivers seat in the EL Fairmont Ghia, the person I bought it off, ditched it for this very reason (replaced with a 2001 Ford Escape), he's 6'2" tall and he barely can drive it in the seat fully back position, his son who is my apprentice can't comfortably drive it and he's 6'4", his knees hit up against the steering wheel and his legs are bent.

Yet my Fiesta and Focus are more comfortable for them to drive? There is more leg room in the front seats, and the steering column moves in/out/up/down and the seat up/down.

Oh and the Focus is capable of carrying my tools and any other assorted crap which floats around in my car in the back, unlike the Fairmont Ghia. Its more practical to load/unload the toolbox loaded and standing up, then try lay it on its back in the boot of a sedan, or on the back seat trying to get it out the rear doors.

The only good quality about it, is it floats over bumps, and the back seat is comfortable for passengers, good long trip car, thats about it.

Its slow, even with ported/polished head, bigger exhaust valves, full exhaust, high flow cat, stiffer valve springs and cam. It Handles like the Costa Concordia and has eleventy million electrical problems.

Also when was the last time you saw a Falcon/Commodore pulling anything larger than a 6x4? Everyone moved to dual cab 4X4s and SUVs for that sort of work.

We'll put my GMC Sierra against your Falcon if you want to have a towing contest See what your piddly petrol 4L Inline 6 can do against 6.5L of Detroit Diesel turbo V8.

So you have a 16 year old falcon and you compare it to a 3 year old focus.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Lukeyson

As pointed out earlier in this thread, these days if you say you are buying an "Aussie made big car" (com/falc) it makes people turn their noses up, and if you like big aussie cars, you are a bogan.
Bogans are bad mmmkay

How do you go about making them cool again tho, it's almost like being a proud Australian isn't cool either. no1 cares anymore that the country is going to crap as long as they get a cheap price.

Being a small business owner I tend to have the opinion that if I don't buy locally first and get cheaper imported stuff I am not supporting the companies that pay their employees who could be a potential customer of mine.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

He pretty much does here.

http://www.news.com.au/opinion/oi-ho...-1226615946918

That last post is just sensationalist crap designed to appeal to common sentiment as misguided as it may be. Click bait basically.

Its about on the same level of journalistic talent as the idiot in Motor magazine who wrote about how he "took a dump" as if anyone needed to know. Gutter journalism.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by stang65

So you have a 16 year old falcon and you compare it to a 3 year old focus.

And I've driven BA/FG, and they both still have the space issue for tall/fat people, BA moreso.

Seat is too high, steering column too low and they still handle like ***.

I'm pretty sure if people wanted the Falcon, it'd sell more than like 750 cars a month.

Unfortunately I'm good at playing the guy with the unpopular opinion.

The large car is the Dr Pepper of today, fantastic for some and has its fanatical supporters, the rest of us, not so much.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

And I've driven BA/FG, and they both still have the space issue for tall/fat people, BA moreso.

Seat is too high, steering column too low and they still handle like ***.

I'm pretty sure if people wanted the Falcon, it'd sell more than like 750 cars a month.

Unfortunately I'm good at playing the guy with the unpopular opinion.

The large car is the Dr Pepper of today, fantastic for some and has its fanatical supporters, the rest of us, not so much.

I've never driven any buzz box FWD crap that even comes close to the handling of my FG XR6T.. The front end grip of a Falcon leaves any small FWD for dead & over all handling for dead!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That article brings up a question for me. I keep hearing on here that Ford Aust has much better cost control base then Holden. However, Holden builds twice has many cars, yet only employees 50 more people? Wouldn't that make it the other way round??

Dowling misquoted himself.
In an earlier article done last November, he mentions that Ford Australia's work force was 1500
before the 330 reduction which means FoA is now under 1200, not 1700..

Just my opinion but I think 335/month is still a little too high but Holden has every right to
be confident and try with VF and new Cruze before making any more cuts (if needed of course)

I'm sure that the press is only too willing to continue the tirade for as long as it sees fit..

[imugli]

Originally Posted by jmack

what im about to say is not being racist but just daily observations,asian buy asian cars (u only have to b around greives pde at knock of time to c that ,and thats another point have a look at toyotas workers carpark and its full of them and then check out fords says it all )and if they are well off it is then a merc a bmw etc as it is a status symbol of success,middle eastern buy european because after all they are taxis over there,young guys are into fast and furios crap and as has been previously posted a fare few have had bad dealings with dealers which have also turned people away for good and with only a certain pool of new car buyers around they have made it hard for themselves

. (Just because your post was missing one. Anywhere.)

[chris01]

with the japanese devaluing the yen they'll be more cheap jap cars around...and no aussie ones...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I've never driven any buzz box FWD crap that even comes close to the handling of my FG XR6T.. The front end grip of a Falcon leaves any small FWD for dead & over all handling for dead!!

RS Focus?
Megane RS Trophy?

Both are pretty handy and make mince meat of some RWD cars.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Unfortunately I'm good at playing the wind up merchant with the unpopular opinion.

Fixed for you Damo



It's sad to see things this way, but it is what it is. None of us can do anything about it so I don't see much point in arguing.

[BHDOGS]

im confused is this thread about holden or not? as for ford fords rule if people dont like em then go drive your jap cars with your lattes you cheese eating surrender monkeys.

[jpd80]

I'm floored at just how quickly the media turned from gushing all over Holden, it's new VF Commodore
and plans for for the future to grilling Holden over money spent versus value.

As Ford supporters, we have seen this nasty underside for years and now it seems that Holden is viewed in the same vein.
This is now proof positive to me that even if Ford laid out it's future plans for the press to dissect, The media would still continue
to grilled Ford......just like what's now happening with Holden.

[ryeman]

Remember Melbourne newspapers are basically syndicated Sydney newspapers topped up with local sport and ambulance chasing stories.
The editorial stance on manufacturing support is determined by Sydney based editors.