technology packs.......who needs em?? - Page 5

JG34JA · 17-03-2014, 06:59 PM

How about if instead of tech boom 2.0 & all the social media, "seamless connectivity", locating your friends at a restaurant, and vanity; we actually spent all the R&D in starship design, hall and ion thrusters, positron storage, maybe even warp systems if we could harness enough power to use them. Now THAT would be a technology pack.

Lardman · 17-03-2014, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG34JA

How about if instead of tech boom 2.0 & all the social media, "seamless connectivity", locating your friends at a restaurant, and vanity; we actually spent all the R&D in starship design, hall and ion thrusters, positron storage, maybe even warp systems if we could harness enough power to use them. Now THAT would be a technology pack.

Not sure if you've seen what the 918 and P1 are doing, but it's already happening that we get F1 tech about a couple of years behind.

When the market starts actually caring about powertrains, the makers will respond. But at the moment the majority want things that make their lives easier and more seamless, and the act of driving easier. Most people couldn't give a stuff if they had 100 horsepower or 150 from a 3cyl turbo or a 4cyl, or couldn't tell.

NX74205 · 18-03-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

arent the technology packs going to make them nightmares as a used car.

Who cares?

I don't give a damn about resale value when I buy a car. When I buy, I plan on keeping it for a long, long time, by which time my car would have depreciated fully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

with every little thing breaking and costing an arm and a leg to fix.

I don't care about that either.

I also don't understand why some people assume having a gadget laden car mean that it will break and it will cost an arm and a leg to fix. I fail to see why it is any more likely to break than any other part of the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

The other day I looked at a mates BMW and it had some gadget to lift your seatbelt up for you when you sit in the car. I mean what is that?

It's a bit awkward to reach for the seat belt in a two door when the B pillar is so far behind the driver's seat.

NX74205 · 18-03-2014, 12:21 AM

Just curious, how many of you anti-tech people drive top of the range cars (Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane Ghia, LTD, G6E, G6ET etc)? Why did you get them if it wasn't for the added features of the top of the range model?

When I bought my EA I got talked out of buying an EA Fairmont Ghia which I was looking at because "electrics won't work and it will cost an arm and a leg to fix" and I had limited funds back then, being a student. To this day it's one of my biggest regrets. When I bought my BF I was targeting a Fairmont Ghia to get the extra gadgets, but I couldn't stretch my budget. Suffice it to say I would have if I could.

I prefer the extra features of the luxury models over the base and performance models. But maybe that's just me. If you are one of those people who think gadgets are largely useless, yet drive a luxury model car, why?

Auslandau · 18-03-2014, 08:14 AM

Maybe because the amount of 'gadgets' in a G6E, even a Falcon XT, is enough for some? Maybe they like the car for other reasons? The question asked is fairly simple. There are going to be yes's and no's and when some one has a different opinion it doesn't make them wrong! It only makes them have a different opinion to you and others ......... so just accept that and stop making out that others are idiots because of a differing opinion!

mcnews · 18-03-2014, 09:49 AM

I have found FG MK II cockpit a much more satisfying place to spend time than MKI simply because of the myriad small improvements that make long drives more enjoyable. I think nothing of driving Melb-Syd with only a brief stop for fuel and it is on drives like this that you appreciate the extra bits and pieces. Most times I drive my car it is for at least 1.5 hours at a stretch without getting out. I never know where I am going when in the city so the inbuilt satnav is great, the directory that allows me to look a particular store chain as I never know where one is and might want to visit one that is en route home from somewhere else is extremely handy, and I can ring the store from the detail provided on screen to check their opening hours or they have what I am after etc. I like the reverse camera. I like how the electric seats automatically adjust for me if I use my key, while if my partner uses their key it automatically adjusts to their set preferences etc. Including the mirrors. It is little things like this that improve the ownership experience I find and keep you happy with your car for longer without feeling the need to update.

I understand for some people it is all about the noise etc. and the drive. And yes there is that too. But if you want the best noise then you wouldn't be driving anything modern and insulated anyway and if you really appreciate the drive more than anything, well then you're probably better off in a sports car.

While doing a night ride home from Wakefield Park to Eildon on Sunday night I think I noticed a blind spot assist function as I slipped past a Captiva on the Hume Hwy, a little orange light appeared on their rear view mirror as I traversed through what could have been their blind spot. I presume that was blind spot assist, if so that's fantastic technology.

Rodge · 18-03-2014, 10:09 AM

Agreed Trev that Mk1 FG owners like myself are feeling the pinch with missing technology like MK2 owners have. Yeap that's blind spot assist and I agree its worthwhile kit. You forgot to mention your superior Mk2 DSC system :-)

Ford have invested in new equipment to enable the development of blind spot assist and adaptive cruise control for the FH so hopefully this development actually happens and will be forthcoming in that model and if so, along with the shape change and tech in your Mk2 that would give Mk1 owners such as myself a pretty useful bunch of new technology to enjoy.

Bent8 · 18-03-2014, 03:06 PM

Bluetooth is useful, handsfree comms so you can keep your eyes on the road, aircon keeps you comfortable, power windows also help to keep your hands on the wheel.

We should remember that as competent drivers, we should always be aware of our surroundings and not rely on electronics to do this for us.

The trend I'm seeing is car makers trying to move all physical controls to a touchscreen LCD to simplify the dash layout but that's actually a bad move as it diverts your attention off the road.

Blind spot assist?... turn your head and do a visual check! (takes less than 2sec)

Radar cruise control... again, it's actually making us lazy drivers. Watch the road and apply the brakes as needed. (really not that hard)

Obviously, tech is there to sell the car but in my opinion, most of these features just encourage laziness in drivers and add unnecesary weight to a car.

Itsme · 18-03-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

Bluetooth is useful, handsfree comms so you can keep your eyes on the road, aircon keeps you comfortable, power windows also help to keep your hands on the wheel.

We should remember that as competent drivers, we should always be aware of our surroundings and not rely on electronics to do this for us.

The trend I'm seeing is car makers trying to move all physical controls to a touchscreen LCD to simplify the dash layout but that's actually a bad move as it diverts your attention off the road.

Blind spot assist?... turn your head and do a visual check! (takes less than 2sec)

Radar cruise control... again, it's actually making us lazy drivers. Watch the road and apply the brakes as needed. (really not that hard)

Obviously, tech is there to sell the car but in my opinion, most of these features just encourage laziness in drivers and add unnecesary weight to a car.

Yes & no for making lazy drivers, depends on you how you are taught to drive.....I driven a lot of cars with high tech but still do the basics as visual checks & concentration.
I see some of the high techs as added features for safety just in case you make an error, we are human & prone to make errors at times.

Cheers.

XBv8mmm! · 18-03-2014, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

Just curious, how many of you anti-tech people drive top of the range cars (Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane Ghia, LTD, G6E, G6ET etc)? Why did you get them if it wasn't for the added features of the top of the range model?

When I bought my EA I got talked out of buying an EA Fairmont Ghia which I was looking at because "electrics won't work and it will cost an arm and a leg to fix" and I had limited funds back then, being a student. To this day it's one of my biggest regrets. When I bought my BF I was targeting a Fairmont Ghia to get the extra gadgets, but I couldn't stretch my budget. Suffice it to say I would have if I could.

I prefer the extra features of the luxury models over the base and performance models. But maybe that's just me. If you are one of those people who think gadgets are largely useless, yet drive a luxury model car, why?

Yes but, when gadgets add to the car and the driving experience, that's one thing. When the gadgets are there to distract you from the fact that a car is rubbish that's another.

For instance, I have a top of the line late 2012 i45 company car, it has all the gadgets that were available at the time, ipod, blue tooth, keyless entry/start, paddle shift auto trans, power folding mirrors, colour touch screen, reversing camera, sat nav etc., etc.

All very nice, but they don't make up for the fact that there are rattles in the roof and the doors and the dash, the trans is so unintuitive that you have to use the paddles to do the shifting for it, the handling is, at times dangerous (massive understeer), trim falling off, the tech plays up on a semi regular basis and even though it has the so called "large and powerful" 2.4 ltr engine it is gutless.
Honestly, I feel sorry for anybody that actually parted with their hard earneds for one of these pathetic buckets of crap.

And that is the problem with tech. When it is used in conjunction with a car that is a good driving car, Mercs, beemers, Audi's and yes, Falcons, it complements the driving experience.
But at the moment it's mostly used by manufacturers to mask their poorly designed, engineered and built rubbish, and with the OEM's target demographic having no idea of what a good driving car should be, all they see is a cute little car with all the gadgets.

And that is a serious shame.

Rodge · 19-03-2014, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

Blind spot assist?... turn your head and do a visual check! (takes less than 2sec)
Radar cruise control... again, it's actually making us lazy drivers. Watch the road and apply the brakes as needed. (really not that hard)

Obviously, tech is there to sell the car but in my opinion, most of these features just encourage laziness in drivers and add unnecesary weight to a car.

Just a thought...while your twisting your neck around for up too two seconds you're not looking forwards where your driving are you ?
OTOH a quick flick of one's eyes to check the blind spot assist takes a mere fraction of a second...dunno about others but i think I know which is safer.

Radar cruise control, lazy, or more relaxed so you stay in better shape for a long journey ?

chopstar87 · 19-03-2014, 09:08 AM

adaptive cruise control is probably one of my favourite features of my car, makes the drive less stressful and less worried about speeding.. especially with all the road works around at the moment (i live in QLD)

I will be driving 400kms this Saturday and another 400kms on Sunday and it makes the drive a lot better.. and much more relaxing. the car slows when in cars front slow down due to turns or road works and just driving slowing, it slows down with me not needing to do anything and will stay the distance i sit behind the car at all times. so instead of getting frustrated sitting behind a slow car, i let the cruise control look after the speed while i steer, til i find a place to past the car. its makes a major difference on long drives for sure!

Blind spot monitoring is great to... specially in my car which inst the best car to see out of at times. very handy and good to have as a extra safety net for sure. you dont rely on it, but you use as 2nd set of eyes on what you are doing, which i cant see how thats a bad thing?

MAGPIE · 19-03-2014, 09:17 AM

Radar cruise is one thing that I would like to have, the amount of numpties on the road that can't stick to a consistent speed is incredible.

mcnews · 19-03-2014, 09:24 AM

Head check is always something every one should do, even if they have blind spot assist, it is not something to be relied upon, it is a double check somewhat of a fail safe, Falcon pillars do make head checks a huge chore, the ute is terrible for this, and bikes can be missed, having that little bit of extra assistance is obviously a good thing for everyone, but particularly for those that have no idea how to drive.

HULK_I6T · 19-03-2014, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

I couldn't care that the tech in my new car might be an issue for future owners. As long as it isn't for me as the first owner.

well you will if the warranty has run out as noone will buy your car if its full of issues. It will be your cost to fix (expensive) otherwise take a bath on the sale price.

Unless you get rid of cars within warranty period.

HULK_I6T · 19-03-2014, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

Who cares?

I don't give a damn about resale value when I buy a car. When I buy, I plan on keeping it for a long, long time, by which time my car would have depreciated fully.

I don't care about that either.

I also don't understand why some people assume having a gadget laden car mean that it will break and it will cost an arm and a leg to fix. I fail to see why it is any more likely to break than any other part of the car.

It's a bit awkward to reach for the seat belt in a two door when the B pillar is so far behind the driver's seat.

If you keep the car for a long time the tech issues will still present themselves for you, be there for you to fix. They will also be expensive as these tech packs get upgraded every year so you need bits that are precise to a particular model/year/month even.. The spare parts department will hit you for a home run when you ask for these one off pieces.

A gadget laden car is more likely to fail than a simple car. More fiddly bits to go wrong, theres no denying that.

johnydep · 19-03-2014, 09:45 AM

The car mags have all criticised the VF Commo for not increasing the size of the side mirrors. However, with Blind Spot Alert you don't need bigger mirrors.

After having the Territory's fantastic side mirrors, I always thought that the Commodore's were puny. Not now.

Love the Blind Spot Alert.

Love technology

HULK_I6T · 19-03-2014, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

The car mags have all criticised the VF Commo for not increasing the size of the side mirrors. However, with Blind Spot Alert you don't need bigger mirrors.

After having the Territory's fantastic side mirrors, I always thought that the Commodore's were puny. Not now.

Love the Blind Spot Alert.

Love technology

People are confusing technology packs with safety enhancements.

Rodge · 19-03-2014, 10:52 AM

Reality check : I'm sure almost everyone on here would agree that in recent times recent innovations of dynamic stability control and ABS brakes are great and very useful technology improvements, likewise multiple airbags.
It seems strange that nobody seems that worried about these sort of systems causing massive issues with future reliability but some people seem profoundly worried about the future reliability of things like adaptive cruise control, blind spot assist and heads-up display's, go figure...

b0son · 19-03-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

otherwise take a bath on the sale price.

you're going to do that with an Aus-built car regardless

Rodp · 19-03-2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

OTOH a quick flick of one's eyes to check the blind spot assist takes a mere fraction of a second...dunno about others but i think I know which is safer.

What if blind spot assist has either failed or simply failed to pick up something in your blind spot? Regardless of whether I had blind spot assist in the car I was driving, it would never stop me looking over my shoulder. At best I would use it in conjunction with a shoulder glance.

Iggle Piggle · 19-03-2014, 02:08 PM

The safety stuff I certainly have no issue with - even if me/we don't need it, we are sharing the roads with some lazy and/or crazy numpties that do, so if they have it and it stops them crashing in to me and my family or running us off the road I am all for it.

The nice-to-have stuff - if people use common sense when and how they use it then it is not an issue. If it comes to me at no added cost I am all for it; if it is a cost option then I determine if the cost is worth it (to me) and either tick or leave that box. If it truely is just a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have then who gives a stuff if it fails sometime down the track out of warranty and is expensive to fix - I don't need to have it so if I don't value it I won't bother fixing it, and if I really value it that much then I would wear the cost of the fix just as I would wear the cost of expensive mechanical repairs.

Bent8 · 19-03-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Just a thought...while your twisting your neck around for up too two seconds you're not looking forwards where your driving are you ?
OTOH a quick flick of one's eyes to check the blind spot assist takes a mere fraction of a second...dunno about others but i think I know which is safer.

Radar cruise control, lazy, or more relaxed so you stay in better shape for a long journey ?

I was waiting for someone to say this...

I'm not going to sit in heavy traffic and rely on a little light to tell me if it's safe to change lanes, I'm going to observe the road ahead, make an executive decision to turn my head and visually check before departing my lane.

The reverse sensors in my XR8 sometimes go off as I'm reversing near trees which are not right behind me but to my sides.. so I just ignore the beeps and visually check my surroundings..

There's a very fine line between driver assists and drivers completely relying on them to reach their destination safely... makes me wonder what happens with insurance claims if a driver relies on their blind-spot assist and has an accident, is it driver error or are the electronics to blame?

To me, radar assisted CC promotes laziness in a driver, if you jump in your car and go for a 3 hour drive but then feel you have to leave the braking/acceleration responsibilities to an electronic chip to handle, you might be better off pulling over and taking a break.

I'm always using my CC on long trips but I'm still well aware of whats ahead of me and applying the brakes myself because I'm in control of the car instead of a bunch of sensors!

My 2c worth

Rodge · 19-03-2014, 02:56 PM

[QUOTE=Rodp;5049419]What if blind spot assist has either failed or simply failed to pick up something in your blind spot? Regardless of whether I had blind spot assist in the car I was driving, it would never stop me looking over my shoulder. At best I would use it in conjunction with a shoulder glance.[/QUOTE]

That's what I'm getting at. A quick glance at the blind spot and then a quick double check glance over your shoulder as opposed to a good look over your shoulder, which is safer and which takes your eye's off the road ahead for longer ?

Bent 8 - Your perspective is no less or more valid than mine but here's a thought. You, I and a heck of a lot of other people use normal cruise control on long trips for a reason right ? To let a bit of technology maintain a set speed so you don't have to concentrate on doing this manually with varying throttle input and by using cruise control this free's you up to concentrate on other aspects of driving and / or relax more so you don't get so fatigued on a long trip. All adaptive cruise control does is adjust's your speed for the intrusion of other vehicles into your planned cruise speed setting, so how can that be a bad thing given that you're already using normal cruise control ?

In practice I find if you set the adaptive cruise control for 2 seconds following distance, it keeps the distance between your vehicle and the one in front at a constant and safe distance, arguably better than many humans are capable of accuratly doing on a sustained basis. Lets be honest here, many of us, myself included don't always stick to the 2 seconds following rule and often follow the vehicle in front closer than that.

GT450 · 19-03-2014, 03:43 PM

I think many of the recent features added to our vehicles are of great signifigance especially if they increase primary safety and relieve the stress of driving and in certain circumstances driving can be very stressful.
However judging by some of the people I see every day on my commute to work I think the following maybe of more importance to some. Larger and more interior mirrors to help with applying makeup/ masscara and plucking the eyebrows . As well as a breakfast dish holder for the bowl of cereal/ large coffee that's eaten at every stoplight. Possibly even the darkest possible windows so you can't be seen obviously using your mobile phone.
Any safety device the manufacturers can put in place to save me from these people will always be welcome.
GT450

Itsme · 19-03-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6_benito

If you keep the car for a long time the tech issues will still present themselves for you, be there for you to fix. They will also be expensive as these tech packs get upgraded every year so you need bits that are precise to a particular model/year/month even.. The spare parts department will hit you for a home run when you ask for these one off pieces.

A gadget laden car is more likely to fail than a simple car. More fiddly bits to go wrong, theres no denying that.

Any car will wear out over time regardless of having technology parts or not, there is no substantiated proof a car with technology parts will wear out quicker, it all comes back how you treat your car.

johnydep · 19-03-2014, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

I was waiting for someone to say this...

I'm not going to sit in heavy traffic and rely on a little light to tell me if it's safe to change lanes, I'm going to observe the road ahead, make an executive decision to turn my head and visually check before departing my lane.

The reverse sensors in my XR8 sometimes go off as I'm reversing near trees which are not right behind me but to my sides.. so I just ignore the beeps and visually check my surroundings..

There's a very fine line between driver assists and drivers completely relying on them to reach their destination safely... makes me wonder what happens with insurance claims if a driver relies on their blind-spot assist and has an accident, is it driver error or are the electronics to blame?

To me, radar assisted CC promotes laziness in a driver, if you jump in your car and go for a 3 hour drive but then feel you have to leave the braking/acceleration responsibilities to an electronic chip to handle, you might be better off pulling over and taking a break.

I'm always using my CC on long trips but I'm still well aware of whats ahead of me and applying the brakes myself because I'm in control of the car instead of a bunch of sensors!

My 2c worth

I'm used to people my parents age putting any new gadget, that uses electrics, into the "technology" bracket

I remember all the old guys saying the same thing when (ABS) Anti-lock brakes started to show up on mainstream vehicles in the 1980's.

My father & his mate opened an automatic transmission repair shop in the early 70's; most workshops didn't want to know about auto's because they thought the auto trans "promotes laziness" & they wouldn't be big sellers.

My point - consumers have an enormous appetite for any technology that is useable. Be it Bluetooth, ABS, self tinting mirrors, electric seats, Navigation systems, reverse sensors, cruise control, DSG, turbo/super charger, fuel injection, auto lights, auto windscreen wipers, etc. It's all "technology" to the consumer, and most don't think about what will goe wrong and how much it will cost when it stops working.

On the subject of things breaking; anyone know the break down rate of today's gadgets compared to yesteryear?

I'm pretty confident that it's better now than 30 years ago.

Rodge · 19-03-2014, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trublu

Any car will wear out over time regardless of having technology parts or not, there is no substantiated proof a car with technology parts will wear out quicker, it all comes back how you treat your car.

I think there's a significant difference bewteen the reliability issues, (especially in regard to electrical issues), experienced by people who park their cars outside in the extreme's of heat and cold and subject to moisture ingress on a consistent basis when it rains, compared too vehicles that are garaged nice and dry and protected from the elements.

A vehicle that's consistently parked in a dry covered garage both during work hours and overnight must have a huge reliability head start over other cars subject to climate extremes, surely ?

Itsme · 19-03-2014, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

I'm pretty confident that it's better now than 30 years ago.

I agree with what you say except for the last comment you quoted, Electronics these days is produced cheap in high volumes usually non serviceable & is really a throw away commodity.
In my opinion quality is less today than 30 years ago.

Eg TV's, try to find a service/repair..... you probably won't.

Cheers.

Rodp · 20-03-2014, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

That's what I'm getting at. A quick glance at the blind spot and then a quick double check glance over your shoulder as opposed to a good look over your shoulder, which is safer and which takes your eye's off the road ahead for longer ?

The difference would be inconsequential to me. You either take a proper glance or you don't bother. I try to keep a reasonable picture of what's around me at all times in case of an emergency (like some clown not seeing a freaking white car coming towards an intersection, entering it turning right then STOP in your lane when they do see you. Yes, I'm talking about you! Dopey Charade driver yesterday..) and that *may* aid in keeping track of what's around me. However, after 25 years behind the wheel, using blind spot assist in lieu of checking over the shoulder would probably be a hard habit to break.