2018 Ranger Raptor

[jpd80]

On that note.....

FG50T, have you considered Mazda BT-50, still a Ranger underneath
but different suspension tune and a much lower purchase price...
Not saying it's the vehicle for you but may be worth a look..

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by spvd02

They're fighting an up-hill battle trying to flog it off with that engine. While entirely adequate in a performance sense, it doesn't come near to expectations for what is supposed to be a performance vehicle. We all know that, and so do they. They are now left in a position where they need to convince us otherwise.

It looks like a great vehicle. Maybe one day Ford will admit that they gave it the wrong engine. For me, the ideal choice would be a 2.7tt v6 petrol. Imagine how many people would be interested then! Fuel economy would be acceptable, performance amazing, NVH excellent... it would be the complete package, not the compromised 'performance' vehicle it is now.

Sorry buddy, that opinion ain't welcome. Agree with everyone else or leave.

[jpd80]

spvd02 knows what he wants in a vehicle but Ford is not currently providing that
(how many times have we heard that, so we shouldn't try to defend or persuade)

All I can say is this product cycle ends in 2021, so this RR has under three years to run
and now that the yanks are on board, the door has been opened to do more...

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by spvd02

Wrong! I would have NO complaints if this vehicle came with a 2.7tt ecoboost. It would suit the character of the RR much better, since it is designed for performance, not to tow heavy loads. Diesel is great for towing, but petrol has vastly superior performance. Unladen, even the fuel economy would be fine. Maybe Ford didn't have a choice, but it is not the ideal engine for a performance off-road vehicle, no matter how you look at it.

Load it up with 700kg for a family trip around Oz and I’d take the 2 litre diesel anyday over the 2.7 Ecoboost, that’s just me though, have been all over Oz in various set ups and I’d take the 2litre diesel everytime. Can’t please everyone unfortunately, might go your way though in a few years.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

Load it up with 700kg for a family trip around Oz and I’d take the 2 litre diesel anyday over the 2.7 Ecoboost, that’s just me though, have been all over Oz in various set ups and I’d take the 2litre diesel everytime. Can’t please everyone unfortunately, might go your way though in a few years.

Interesting - why would you take the much weaker 2litre diesel (especially at higher speeds) over the 2.7? Is it just fuel economy? Plenty of reviewers so far have stated that it lacks punch, especially at highway speeds. Add 700kg on board and you would really know what you're missing!

I don't understand what advantage the 2litre would have. Comparing it with the hypothetical 2.7tt option, the positives of the 2litre certainly don't outweigh it's shortcomings. Can you explain why you would prefer it?

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by spvd02

Interesting - why would you take the much weaker 2litre diesel (especially at higher speeds) over the 2.7? Is it just fuel economy? Plenty of reviewers so far have stated that it lacks punch, especially at highway speeds. Add 700kg on board and you would really know what you're missing!

I don't understand what advantage the 2litre would have. Comparing it with the hypothetical 2.7tt option, the positives of the 2litre certainly don't outweigh it's shortcomings. Can you explain why you would prefer it?

No but thanks for askin. I know what I want after years of travelling, explaining would be a ‘bang ya head against a brick wall’ exercise here. Many want the 2.7 ecoboost, and as mentioned you may see it one day - Until then there’s plenty of options, an absolute shyte load of options including what’s coming from the states. If you don’t need a bespoke set up like the Raptors platform then to me it’s a no brainer - look elsewhere. Nothing will come close to the performance of this thing off-road, if ya don’t need the off-road performance why even bother with it. The only petrol I would even consider would be the 3.5 ecoboost, especially given the thing is nearly 2.5 TONNES EMPTY!! Even then I’d still go the 2 litre. Would never look at one with a 2.7

[XR Martin]

F150 with the 2.7 ecoboost runs mid 14s, more than adequate for a truck.

[chrisandsharon]

It is mate - 2018 model also runs a full aluminium body and is 150kg lighter than the Ranger Raptor RR fully loaded is close to 3.1 tonne, around Oz and big trips it’d be the diesel for me. Again though each to their own. If we’re talkin the 3.5, that’s a different story.

[jpd80]

Thanks for sharing that chrisandsharon, I think you're typical of the buyer
that Ford was targeting with the 2.0 TD RR. I can tell by some exchanges
here that some people find it hard to accept that the diesel was right choice
for you even after you fully explained why.

Sadly, this is why I think many RR owners won't bother posting here
I'm sure they have better things to do than have their vehicle choice
second guessed and criticized by others.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Thanks for sharing that chrisandsharon, I think you're typical of the buyer
that Ford was targeting with the 2.0 TD RR. I can tell by some exchanges
here that some people find it hard to accept that the diesel was right choice
for you even after you fully explained why.

Sadly, this is why I think many RR owners won't bother posting here
I'm sure they have better things to do than have their vehicle choice
second guessed and criticized by others.

Thanks jpd80, for pointing that out. I do find it hard to accept only because it doesn't make sense to me, which is why I asked for clarification.

From my experience, where turbo-diesels go well, turbo petrols go better. These days they can also be linear in their power delivery, and they don't feel confined to an extremely narrow power-band.

So what kind of buyer were Ford targeting exactly? Buyers who prefer economy over performance, clatter over refinement, style over substance, disposability over longevity? There aren't many performance enthusiasts I have come across who prefer their vehicles to be slow. It must be a small target audience indeed!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by spvd02

So what kind of buyer were Ford targeting exactly? Buyers who prefer economy over performance, clatter over refinement, style over substance, disposability over longevity? There aren't many performance enthusiasts I have come across who prefer their vehicles to be slow. It must be a small target audience indeed!

How much time do you spend in the 4wd scene?

And if turbo petrol is better than turbo diesel for hauling weight, how many turbo petrol trucks are there?

Also, the target audience is small. It's a niche vehicle. They have regular ranger to cover the large audience. You can't build cars that are all things to all people. Ranger Raptor is a very targeted vehicle available to anyone who wants one.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by prydey

How much time do you spend in the 4wd scene?

And if turbo petrol is better than turbo diesel for hauling weight, how many turbo petrol trucks are there?

Also, the target audience is small. It's a niche vehicle. They have regular ranger to cover the large audience. You can't build cars that are all things to all people. Ranger Raptor is a very targeted vehicle available to anyone who wants one.

700kg is not what you would call hauling weight. If the RR was a towing vehicle it wouldn't have lost 1000kg of its capacity compared with regular versions. Diesel IS suited to towing, but also IS inferior when it comes to performance. It may be superior in low speed tasks such as rock crawling, but the RR is supposed to be a high speed desert runner. Do you see the contrast?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by spvd02

So what kind of buyer were Ford targeting exactly? Buyers who prefer economy over performance, clatter over refinement, style over substance, disposability over longevity? There aren't many performance enthusiasts I have come across who prefer their vehicles to be slow. It must be a small target audience indeed!

Diesel dominates in 90% of Ranger's global markets, it is those buyers that Ford is seeking out.
The new engine is pretty quiet and apart from criticism of overtaking acceleration,
it does quite well in the bush with maintaining speed off road.

Edit,
Not dismissing your claim for a more powerful TT V6 vehicle but the timing for this does not suit,
I'm sure that Ford has heard the complaints and now that the yanks are part of the picture, we should
see some progress on the next product cycle in under three years time.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Diesel dominates in 90% of Ranger's global markets, it is those buyers that Ford is seeking out.
The new engine is pretty quiet and apart from criticism of overtaking acceleration,
it does quite well in the bush with maintaining speed off road.

Edit,
Not dismissing your claim for a more powerful TT V6 vehicle but the timing for this does not suit,
I'm sure that Ford has heard the complaints and now that the yanks are part of the picture, we should
see some progress on the next product cycle in under three years time.

I accept this, and hopefully Ford do stand up and take notice of well-founded criticism, especially of course when it affects their sales. There are many strong selling points on the RR, and there will be those who can overlook its deficiency in the power department, but will also be many who cannot. The current offering certainly makes for some good, passionate discussion from both sides, which can only be a good thing, right?!

[jpd80]

Not necessarily, perceived bashing/criticism post after post won't be tolerated.

Have your say yes but don't go on and on about it in a good news thread,
it really goes against the spirit of wishing the product well and encouraging
owners to post their view......

In the meantime,
If you are serious about buying a TT V6 Ranger Raptor, start a petition and address it to Ford,
gather enough signatures of people who are willing to buy one and see what happens.

[spvd02]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not necessarily, perceived bashing/criticism post after post won't be tolerated.

Have your say yes but don't go on and on about it in a good news thread,
it really goes against the spirit of wishing the product well and encouraging
owners to post their view......

In the meantime,
If you are serious about buying a TT V6 Ranger Raptor, start a petition and address it to Ford,
gather enough signatures of people who are willing to buy one and see what happens.

Point taken. I was trying to be reasonable in expressing my opinion, but maybe came across a bit too strongly in some instances. I do apologise for that.

As far as the product itself goes, it is what it is, and owners have plenty of reason to enjoy it for what it is. Overall it looks like quite the comprehensive package, a commendable effort by the engineers involved.

I don't intend to be purchasing this type of vehicle personally, as it doesn't suit my purposes. No doubt there will be others who will appreciate the RR's range of abilities and put them to good use. To those that do, Enjoy!

[nstg8a]

I think there wouldn't have been as much criticism of the 2.0 if it's numbers on paper were a significant improvement on the old 3.2.
I can understand why people would be puzzled with fords decision, especially in a market where larger capacity vehicles (especially those with a blue oval badge) have traditionally been favoured.

[simon varley]

it's also a market that accounts for about one poofteenth of Global sales, so why would anyone care? we get what everyone else gets. bear in mind that the development team and management team all live and work here so know exactly what Australians 'say' they want. what they actually buy is a totally different kettle of fish.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's also a market that accounts for about one poofteenth of Global sales, so why would anyone care? we get what everyone else gets. bear in mind that the development team and management team all live and work here so know exactly what Australians 'say' they want. what they actually buy is a totally different kettle of fish.

This.
I get the feeling that there's a fair degree of what I'd call, "HP advocating" going on where
certain people think that they and their vehicle preferences represent the majority view on AFF.
It's a noble gesture but perhaps we all need to understand where we are in the cosmos these days,
we're a little RHD backwater market, a niche where Mustang and Ranger sell "OK" but not much else
so I don't think we have that much access to ready in RHD product, Ranger Raptor was restricted to what
the whole Asian region and European market would buy, not just Aussie HP fans were wanting, a TT V6.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This.
I get the feeling that there's a fair degree of what I'd call, "HP advocating" going on where
certain people think that they and their vehicle preferences represent the majority view on AFF.
It's a noble gesture but perhaps we all need to understand where we are in the cosmos these days,
we're a little RHD backwater market, a niche where Mustang and Ranger sell "OK" but not much else
so I don't think we have that much access to ready in RHD product, Ranger Raptor was restricted to what
the whole Asian region and European market would buy, not just Aussie HP fans were wanting, a TT V6.

Fair call but shouldnt we then apply this logic to Holdens situation to a certain extent, they too exist in a niche market?
They cant provide what they did before because the parent company doesn't make it due to lack of demand anywhere other than here.
Although im sure theres a reason why its a different situation...

[jpd80]

Maybe expectations were different.
People are buying the Raptor in higher numbers than Ford expected
where as ZB was clearly over ordered by former Holden executives...

Raptor is also just one version of Ranger with significantly more sales that
don't determine its fate that of the of diesel Ranger Raptor either way..

Local HP buyers are in the wilderness now, there's really only Mustang or Camaro
or go pay for something really expensive, all we can do is wait for a change of wind...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by spvd02

They're fighting an up-hill battle trying to flog it off with that engine.

Man did you get this statement wrong. Did you see previous posts about having to increase production to meet demand?

Originally Posted by Fordman1

I wonder what the next generation Amorak is like ...

Probably pretty similar to the Ranger if the deal goes through.

[Dr Smith]

Mind you while diesel is currently 24c/Lt greater then petrol I probably wish I was driving petrol powered vehicles at the moment. Can the Ecoboost from the Escape fit in a Transit Custom or Ranger....and then I can swap out engines based on fuel prices.

[Craig@AUDI]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's also a market that accounts for about one poofteenth of Global sales

Agreed, which makes me wonder why the Transit and the Mustang have so many different factory fitted options available. Sure make sourcing cars fun!

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Mind you while diesel is currently 24c/Lt greater then petrol I probably wish I was driving petrol powered vehicles at the moment. Can the Ecoboost from the Escape fit in a Transit Custom or Ranger....and then I can swap out engines based on fuel prices.

3c and 5c difference in my local servo's

[chrisandsharon]

Yeah wow, 98 is 8c dearer than diesel at my local Mobil today (premium diesel $156.9) Not sure if the 2.7 requires 98 though. The 91 is cheaper than the diesel by 7c.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Mind you while diesel is currently 24c/Lt greater then petrol I probably wish I was driving petrol powered vehicles at the moment. Can the Ecoboost from the Escape fit in a Transit Custom or Ranger....and then I can swap out engines based on fuel prices.

One interesting power train Ford has coming in next year's Explorer is a 3.3 V6 Hybrid' a brilliant move in an SUV but I wonder if Ranger could benefit from hybrid V6..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

One interesting power train Ford has coming in next year's Explorer is a 3.3 V6 Hybrid' a brilliant move in an SUV but I wonder if Ranger could benefit from hybrid V6..

But will they share the powertrain love downunder...or even a RHD Explorer?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

But will they share the powertrain love downunder...or even a RHD Explorer?

Whisper is no, Ford NA will be focusing on its own market so probably no RHD Explorer. Pity...
Best hope is that next Gen Ranger has access to hybrids or PHEVs to balance against diesel sales.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I can tell by some exchanges
here that some people find it hard to accept that the diesel was right choice
for you even after you fully explained why.

Sadly, this is why I think many RR owners won't bother posting here
I'm sure they have better things to do than have their vehicle choice
second guessed and criticized by others.

Much like Jeeps motto is “it’s a Jeep thing”, the Ranger motto can be “don’t worry, they just don’t get it”.

I can think of a couple of other Fords which were apparently great but people just didn’t ‘get’. The ecoboost Falcon, and ecolpi Falcon. Different buyers and different market I guess.