Running an ED on Gas

94EDxr6 · 08-10-2005, 01:05 AM

Thanks to these beautiful fuel prices I see getting a Gas conversion as a sorta investment for the future. Iv been told many conflicting things and I was wonder if anybody could help clear my mind.

I'v been told that installing multi-point gas gives you the same amount of power as fuel does. Is this true?

I'v also been told that running gas all the time is not 'good' for your car as it needs more services. Is this true?

Also what is duel fuel like? Is it true that because of the conventional sparkplugs that I will loose power from both running gas or fuel?

Has anyone had any experiences on gas that they would like to share?

oneredED · 08-10-2005, 03:29 AM

I run LPG on my ED (it has a factory fitted IMPCO system). It's done 250 odd thousand clicks now which means it's getting a bit tired i guess, but no smoke noises etc and it still goes alright. It made 98rwkw on petrol and i think 96rwkw on LPG, so the differences aren't all that bad, assuming a petrol only ED with the same kays and punishment mine has had should make around 105rwkw (at a guess).

Quote:

I'v also been told that running gas all the time is not 'good' for your car as it needs more services. Is this true?

With the buick derived and ecotec commodore motors this is very true. Something to do with valve seats, but i'm not sure specifically. The falcon I6's however it's a completely different story. You should see around 300,000 (at a guess again :P) at least on the head I would think if you started with a new motor (mine is not buggered but apparently will be due for work in a few ten thousand kays).

Quote:

Also what is duel fuel like? Is it true that because of the conventional sparkplugs that I will loose power from both running gas or fuel?

Sparkplugs? I don't think so. At least not as much of a loss as you will get from the restriction on the intake side of things due to the mixer. Also something to take into account also is the slower throttle response on gas (to help this the mixer should be as close to the throttlebody as possible...)

I'd go gas for sure if i were you, but i'd probably buy a car that already had it. Our workshop does gas installations (using impco stuff mostly) and they do cost quite alot. There has also been a major shortage of LPG tanks recently. We were told we had to wait over a month to get ANY LPG tanks in stock as a heck of a lot of people are converting to LPG at the moment. The savings of having a car on LPG are amazing to say the least at the moment, I couldn't have afforded my car up until now if it was on petrol only.

One vote for LPG here :P

Jared

niko · 08-10-2005, 11:50 AM

im running dual fuel gas research, love it.

jd dad · 08-10-2005, 04:09 PM

Got a 2nd kit from the wreckers for my ED. Towing the trailer is about the only time I notice a big difference in power from petrol. The best notice is at the bowser $30 to fill not about $80

Go for an Impco kit if you can

94EDxr6 · 08-10-2005, 05:09 PM

oneredED, are u running multi point? How much do u think it would cost for mulipoint?

oneredED · 08-10-2005, 08:39 PM

Well, it's multi-point on petrol :P On gas it's just the single impco suck-through mixer, diaphragm type. :S I'm not really sure what you mean by multi-point LPG ? Do you mean LPG injection? (replacing the injectors with LPG variants) Again i'm not sure, but I don't think that has been realeased to the general public yet. (someone help me out, i am confused again :P)

*I am not the mechanic at our workshop, nor the money handler, but i can find out our specific prices to give you a guide if you want to know more.

94EDxr6 · 08-10-2005, 11:42 PM

I'v been told that you can get multi point LPG (meaning a gas injection to each cyclinder). Apparently this is ment to give as equal power as fuel does - obviously i have multi point fuel at the moment).

Is it true running duel fuel is slower than running straight multi point gas?
is it also true that running straight gas at all times is bad for your engine ?

niko · 09-10-2005, 12:30 PM

if you want to save some $ get gas, if your worried bout effects of fuels used in your motor, dont drive a car at all coz engines die regardless of what fuel your using. there are variables yes. but either way engines DIE lol

trick_xd · 09-10-2005, 01:14 PM

94edxr6
if you run straight gas then its not so bad so long as you dont run out of gas its not as easy to call a m8 and bring down a gerry can . at Our workshop allso we do gas conversions and ppl want it done now..

onereded ..is right in what he is saying
last friday we got 2 tanks 1 for a AU and 1 for a EF (same tanks) there was a 1 day date stamp the diffrence in numbers and the diffrence was 650 tanks made . now im not sure if 1 tank was morrning and the other afternoon or not but that is still a hell of a lot of tanks in a day to me and they still cant keep up we are doing close to 7 kits a week a.t.m. if we get a full kit if not we just do what we can ..

gas burns cleaner so there is not as much crap in your motor and if you look at a car that is allways on gas then there oil is still a dark honey colour even after 10,000km where a car on petrol after 10,000km is black so if oil when new is honey colour and is still allmost the same 10k later i think it would be better to have then black oil 10k later so GO the GAS

Spark plugs yep you need realy good spark if you running gas so a good set of plugs ( I use denso) and leads ( I use 10mm(overkill i know ) and you should be right with no backfires .

on gas you will have no rev limite or speed limite and can run a good cam shaft
so if you have a EA to AU sedan expect a price of $1,980 - $2,100 for a good impco kit with a 2 year warranty

When you shop around for gas kits make sure you find out what kit they will use they might use a O.M.V.L. or LANDY kit and they will work but not as good and you will notice the diffrence when it comes time for take off power or going up a big hill / towing .
Thats just what i have found i have had cars with o.m.v.l. and another with a landy both EAs and they where crap but i did get a 87rwkw from a landy and cfi 3.9 ea but i have no doubt that i could have had more with a impco kit they are just easyer to set up and run and tune and better power for some reason ..

Cheers

ilsautomotive · 09-10-2005, 03:33 PM

I lean towards straight gas because there is less to go wrong having only 1 fuel system. It can be tuned optimally accordingly.

The 'multipoint LPG' you speak of has a web site, www.gas-injection.com.au . I asked the owner about it and he says they are still seeking investors to bring the technology to market within 18 months or so. Test cars have run well for some years, and they have found on an LS1 HSV that gas injection outperforms PULP. This is my kind of technology - just a shame we have to settle for mere gas injection in the meantime.

94EDxr6 · 10-10-2005, 10:17 PM

Wow, this information has been very helpful. Can the Impco kits be installed anywhere or only a specialised Impco dealers? Also can the Impco kits come in 'multipoint'

MADED-6 · 14-10-2005, 10:41 PM

Dont Do It Man! You'll Kill You Xr6!!!!!!!

94EDxr6 · 15-10-2005, 06:11 PM

I'v put a deposite for the installation of straight mulipoint gas. Iv found that it can be tuned much better so I will be getting more performance from a cheaper fuel that Iv i had done duel fuel

94EDxr6 · 17-10-2005, 05:48 PM

Its an 8 week wait now. Where is the best place for the gas tank - I want to ask the dude if he can remove the fuel tank and replace it with the gas tank but I don't know how safe it is having a external gas tank. Also how much would an EMPTY fuel tank weight, because even if i have to put the gas tank in the boot, i'll still get the fuel tank removed for lightness

EBII Fairmont · 17-10-2005, 08:15 PM

Just make sure the people who do it, do a proper job. I don't kid you after all the s@*t we went through with my dads system. THe problem with my dads was that there was no second hose from the gas tank, meaning that gas was leacking into the car, there was no mixer and some computer. They replaced everything except for the gas tank. This was the reason for constant backfiring and destroying the air box. Do your research and ask these boys who know exactly what is happening before you jump into it. Do it once and do it properly, because as seen before, it can have dier consequences of blowing up.

94EDxr6 · 17-10-2005, 08:28 PM

im being charged $2700 for a multi point staight gas. The dude said that he's installing a 'gas research system' which he said uses a different manafold (dunno how to spell it). Does this sound dodgy? If it does well too late iv already but a $100 deposit on it

trick_xd · 17-10-2005, 08:36 PM

94EDxr6
yes you can have the tank under the car but its hard to do . i have only ever seen 1 at a car show But i have heard of people doing it never have i seen 1 up close

I seen a ED AND a XD a few mths ago that had the boot floor cut out and a drop tank put in and it was all done by the kids dad and it looked sweet I NOW WANT TO DO IT !
he had the tank mounted inside the drop tank AND another tank in the normal spot
behind the back seat 2 L.P.G. tanks means long range and drop tank looks great from behind the car but i would have no idea how much money it would cost to do a big job like that .

trick_xd · 17-10-2005, 08:39 PM

M8 you dont need gas research unless you pumping out big numbers
Even a impco system will run on a 400hp V8
bit of a overKill but its good to see you are going to gas

17-10-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94EDxr6

im being charged $2700 for a multi point staight gas. The dude said that he's installing a 'gas research system' which he said uses a different manafold (dunno how to spell it). Does this sound dodgy? If it does well too late iv already but a $100 deposit on it

This is prolly about right given the recent demand for gas kits and the fact it is a Gas Research kit (a little more expensive I believe).

I had an ED Fairmont sedan that I had a Sprintgas kit installed into in 1995. The best thing I did. You will not look back after having gas fitted.

Am not sure if high performance is an issue for you or not....but if after a standard type gas install an Impco or Sprintgas kit would most likely work out cheaper than the Gas Research Kit and are a reliable product. The Gas Research kit (...and I will stand corrected if I am wrong) gives a little more flexibility when modding for performance later on if this is your aim then this is your obvious choice.

FYI I currently run 2 EL Fairmonts - one a wagon and one a sedan doing high mileage highway commuting. Both are LPG and I would not have it any other way. Just work out which style/make of kit best suits your needs and budget. Also, wagon kits tend to be more expensive depending on spare wheel/gas/petrol tank configuration when compared to sedans. (not sure if you have a wagon or not....), so expect pricing to be approx $600-800 more expensive for a wagon.

94EDxr6 · 17-10-2005, 08:52 PM

Overkill - what do you mean by this. obviously it can't be bad for my car to have this or can it. When you say a research kit will work out more expensive - do you mean installation wise or do you mean it will duzzle more gas? Also I am after performance as well as cheaper fuel (obivously lol) so if you were me, would you have got the gas reasearch system

I dunno if it means anything but these are my mods on my car:
BMC Pod filter with XH snorkel
Extractors and 2.5 Catback

Soon to be getting: Unichip or Chiptorque with Cam and dyno tune

17-10-2005, 09:52 PM

[QUOTE=94EDxr6] When you say a research kit will work out more expensive - do you mean installation wise or do you mean it will duzzle more gas? Also I am after performance as well as cheaper fuel (obivously lol) so if you were me, would you have got the gas reasearch system

From my experiences, Gas Research kits are more expensive to purchase/fit. Last quote I had to install a Sprintgas kit in a falcon sedan was around $2200 (3 months ago).....so from your quote the GR is $500 more expensive.

Now what I was saying in my post was basically this - Is the GR kit a $500 better kit for what you want?.....Will you get $500 worth of benefit from a GR kit as opposed to an Impco or Sprintgas?....This is the answer that you will need to determine.

Now having never owned a GR system I am not qualified to say.....but what I can tell you is that having run 3 Falcons, 2 with Sprintgas and one with a hybrid Sprintgas kit, I would have no hesitations in installing one or recommending one, although I am not looking for drag strip performance, nor do I get it. I do however get VERY close to petrol performance from these cars for a fraction of the fuel costs when compared to running on petrol.

You asked what I would do personally?....If it were me I would not change a thing I have done in the past....standard Sprintgas kit and save the extra $$ on a performance kit I will not need....but then I am not (and never have been) interested in huge performance gains. This setup give me all the power I need to cruise the highway at 110km/hr and is economical. I think however you are more performance oriented so what I would do may not suit you....You need to speak to those with GR experience to determine if the functionality of that kit is worth the extra $$ with what your own objectives are.

ilsautomotive · 17-10-2005, 10:19 PM

This is confusing me. I don't think GRA do multipoint, and I believe Impco is the same company.

In any case I'm very interested because I wanted multipoint and was told it was not readily available yet. I am also unclear as to whether it is possible to get any serious power figures using gas injectors.

94EDxr6 · 18-10-2005, 04:29 PM

I am after performance basicly what i asking is: is a GR kit what i should get for performance? also what accually is a 'sprintgas' kit.

18-10-2005, 05:58 PM

As for performance....speak to some fo the guys on here who have LPG as well as modded cars.....this is not an area that I have experience in other than reading over old posts etc.....From what I have read the GRA kits can give more flexibility for modding than some of the more standard kits....but speak to some of those who have 'been there and done that'..

As for Sprintgas - they are a brand of LPG kit just as GRA, Landi, Impco and Parnell are just to name a few. They are distributed in NSW by a company called Gaspower in Newcastle - not sure who distributes them in other states but their website should tell you. From memory I think that Gaspower in Newcastle is the company that actually 'develops' the kits.

My experience with them is purely as an owner of their products. I have found their technical service very good (Tony has helped me out with a couple of problems I had with my ED well after it was 'given up on' by the installer). I have stuck with their product since for this reason.

From what you are saying your main reason for going gas is HP gains and not necessarily cheaper running. From that angle you best speak with some of the guys on here regarding what setups they have for perfromance.

Hope this helps.....

94EDxr6 · 18-10-2005, 06:05 PM

can you hook the fuel gage up so that it reads the gas, instead of installing a different gas gage

18-10-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94EDxr6

can you hook the fuel gage up so that it reads the gas, instead of installing a different gas gage

Speak to your installer about this......there are several option in this regard = depends on if your installer wants to do it...or more importantly if it means extra time or $$ if you are prepared to pay for it.

Nothing is impossible.

Personally, I prefer the separate LED guage and changeover switch (which can come in many varies shapes/sizes/forms. My sedan has a genuine ford panel where the demister/electrial aerial switch is that the LPG Kit supplier installed the LED/Switch in. Looks pretty trick - is as if it was in the car from the factory!. If you want a pic let me know.....

oneredED · 18-10-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

can you hook the fuel gage up so that it reads the gas, instead of installing a different gas gage

My factory installed impco kit has this feature. The guage is just the standard one in the dash. Not sure how hard it would be to implement into an aftermarket install though. I personally hate the multiple LED guages, they look old :P

94EDxr6 · 18-10-2005, 08:24 PM

yea a pic would be nice