Can 186-million consumers be wrong?

G’day mates,

I’ve been doing more research of Ethanol powered cars and although I can find very little on Ethanol powered cars in Australia…apart from one article on an old 1925 Austin that was entered in the 2005 Panasonic World Solar Challenge and completed the rally with ease! The 1925 Austin was powered with straight Ethanol!

This event, which has been running every two years since 1987, now attracts teams from all over Australia and around the world and it runs in late September, from Darwin to Adelaide, over about six days. Further information can be found at:
http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/porta...opDefault.aspx

I did some more checking and found the following URL on Ethanol fuelled cars in Brazil:
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/10/17/Wo...t_the_an.shtml

It states on the site:
Brazil is now almost impervious to the instability of gasoline supplies that has bedevilled the United States in the aftermath of two massive hurricanes and the war in Iraq.
Gas pump prices seem stuck around $3 a gallon, but most U.S. drivers have little choice beyond regular, unleaded or premium.
"There is a lot we can learn from Brazil. They are doing great things," said Gal Luft, an alternative energy advocate at the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security, a think-tank in Washington, D.C.

Now then mates, I’m no maths wiz kid but if the Brazilians are paying $4 us per gallon for petrol, that not much more than we Aussies pay at present! In fact on some days in a lot of places in Australia, motorist could be paying more!

Today, the 29/1/06: 4.00 United States Dollars = 5.32200 Australia Dollars and 1 gallon US, liquid = 3.7854118 litres Australian, so for the equivalent of 1 us gallon i.e. 3.785411 Aus litres x $1.23.9 the price I paid today at the pump = $4.6560555 Aus for one gallon!
No wonder the Brazilians are over the moon with Ethanol straight and blends!
When fuel for their cars is selling for barely $2 a gallon! On top of that, car buyers of new cars also receive an annual tax credit on alcohol cars, which have cleaner tailpipe emissions.

Now can you see why I and a few others are interested in replacing petrol with Ethanol in our cars, generators and many other petrol driven engines?
It makes sense to me and it could save me a packet at the pumps, furthermore, I bet I’m not alone in my thinking! So why can’t Aussie organisations tell us how to alter our cars…if we have to…to use straight Ethanol or E85 or whatever? What do you think? Are we still "The Smart Country" or have we become "It's Too Hard To Do Country"

Cheers mates,

Bill…Kando…With a little help from my friends :

[flappist]

Can 186 million consumers be wrong?

How many people smoke cigarettes worldwide? Maybe they got tricked be glib marketing and "selected statistics" too.

How many are addicted to heroin? Surly they didn't think it was bad for them did they?

And remember petrol is cheaper than water in the middle east.......

Originally Posted by flappist

Can 186 million consumers be wrong?

How many people smoke cigarettes worldwide? Maybe they got tricked be glib marketing and "selected statistics" too.

How many are addicted to heroin? Surly they didn't think it was bad for them did they?

And remember petrol is cheaper than water in the middle east.......

G’day Flappist,

I smoke ciggies too, I also enjoy a few shots of Vodka or Irish Whisky from time to time (Bushmills Black Label)

My dear old grandmother and grandfather smoked cigarettes and drank whisky all their lives, they lived in a very small house with a coal/coke burning open fire, cooked on that fire too but they died poor sods, grandma was only 100 and granddad was only 104 when they passed over…about 14 months between each of their passing…guess you’re right with your No Smoking reply but remember, 60 some odd years ago, there were not that many cars on the road so there was a lot less carbon poisons in the air from cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, aircraft and other inner combustion engine powered machinery, we had a pony and trap when I was a lad, nor had anyone set off any atomic bombs…just to see what would happen!
The yanks, the Brits helped by the Aussies, the French, the Russians, the Chinese and up to today, heaps of other countries have exploded nice clean atomic bombs all around "our" world!
They tell us that the bombs they explode are clean! Well! If they’re so bleeding clean why don’t they explode/test them in their own backyard?
Offcourse fumes from cars are harmless, wink wink nudge nudge! As are those bleeding atomic bombs…it me and others having a smoke that is causing all the pollution in the world!
That’s why all the little kids and others who have never smoked, world wide, are dying from cancers of one form or another! These people have one thing in common…wherever they live in the world! They all breathe air and drink water!

If our polar ice cap (South Pole) where no man lives, is polluted with atomic radiation and carbon poisons from inner combusting engines, what state do you think the rest of the world is in?

Having lived and worked all over the Persian Gulf States, I’m well aware of the cost of fuel compared to water…But I never remember being charged for a glass of water in any country of the Persian Gulf…Perhaps they just liked me!
Besides, most if not all the Persian Gulf countries have to distil their water from sea water and that is an expensive process but now the yanks have invented a method to recycle all the water that previously was wasted, now if they desalinate/distil 10,000 Litres of sea water, they get 10,000 Litres of clean fresh drinking water.
I believe the Sydney council along with the NSW government are in the process of planning a big desalination/distilling plant to be built to supply Sydney with drinking water from the sea, using this newly invented American system…100% seawater in…100% clean drinking water out! 1 or 1 million litres! No loss! Apparently a desalination/distilling plant using the old technology was not feasible…to expensive for the NSW government!

As to: How many are addicted to heroin? Surly they didn't think it was bad for them did they?
I’m sure people addicted to heroin never believed they would get hooked! But…As my dear old departed Mother used to say, you made your bed, you lie in it!
I’m 100% sure ever single one of the addicts firmly believed…I’m stronger than that, I won’t get hooked, I’m too smart to get hooked, or they believed, a little bit won’t do me any harm!

Well mate, I spent my younger years and quite a big part of my life in Europe, Turkey, the Orient, Afghanistan, Iran, Yugoslavia, The USA, Canada, North, South, East and West Africa, the Persian Gulf States and too many other countries to list here. A number of my friends and associates used drugs, from cannabis (hashish) to heroin. I myself tried hashish but in those days I preferred a beer with a good Vodka, Whisky, (I preferred Bush Mills Black Label Irish Whisky) Brandy or while in Greece, a nice Ouzo, Retsina (a pine flavoured wine) or a good Metaxa (Brandy) I also enjoyed a shot of Sljivovica (a Yugoslavian plum brandy) in my morning coffee along with my morning ciggie!
BUT! Although other drugs that you and I have mentioned were freely available and cheap to buy in many parts of the world where I lived, No One ever tried to force me to take drugs of any kind! Not ciggies, Not beer or spirits, Not hashish, Not heroin or cocaine! I Repeat! No One even tried to get me to try “ANY” drug! Drugs hard and soft were offered to me but I only had to say…No Thanks…I don’t use it! And that was an end to it! So in my book, addicts have only there selves to blame!
We all know the dangers of heroine and coke and BTW, what has that to do with using Ethanol in ones car?

The same goes for Ethanol, Biodiesel or any other alternative fuel; I will check them out and do the research on them before I use or discard them…If they are better for my pocket and the environment, then you can bet your life that I’ll be converting to one of them!

No one brainwashes me mate! I’m a bit too long in the tooth for that and you could say, I’ve been around a bit! “You” can make up your own mind but in my humble opinion a few people I know and correspond with in the USA, Canada, Germany and Russia are Not Fools and they don't lie! If they have been using Ethanol and Biodiesel for over 15 years with good results (a few of these people generate their own electricity to power their 3 bedroom, two bathroom homes with biodiesel powered generators, a battery charger and a battery bank and their climate is a dammed sight colder than ours here in Victoria) Well mate! Who would you believe? Someone like yourself with no thirst for knowledge, or honest people who have been using a system for years and want to share their knowledge! And No mate! You don’t win a cigar for getting that answer right!

Unfortunately my Ethanol/Biodiesel using friends overseas can not advise me on Ethanol for “my” car as its Australian built! If it was a yank tank or a European car…they would willingly advise me on what I need to do with my car to have it running on Ethanol or an Ethanol blend!

Cheers mate, :

Bill…Kando…With a little help from my friends :

[JC]

You can safely use ethanol at up to 10% blend in Aussie cars. The only reason you shouldn't use more, is that ethanol corrodes the metals used in our fuel pipes. If the fuel pipes are replaced with non-corrosive (by ethanol) material, then you can run your car on whatever blend of ethanol you like. Cars sold in Brazil etc are modified using the right metal piping for ethanol (from memory, it could be copper, but I am probably wrong about that bit).

[Psycho Chicken]

Is this Keepleft's hippy brother?

[Redrum]

Interesting read. You can also run cars on the fumes that hang over Corio of a night, whether it be Hurds or Shell. Just kiddng mate. grew up in that part of the world!! :gren:

[Pieoter]

JC - isn't it plastic and rubber that get easten away by ethanol

[JC]

Pieoter - mostly metals, but some plastics and rubber compounds as well.

Ford has stated that any post-98 car will run on 10% ethanol blend with no problems. Holden says much the same. Fuel experts say that just about any car is fine at 10% blend. It is the higher blends that **can** cause damage, though engines that were tested as part of a 20% blend were an outboard engine and a wipper snipper, and some damage was recorded.

Anyway, check out the attached link - something useful from the government!
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/C...03/03Cib12.pdf

Originally Posted by Redrum

Interesting read. You can also run cars on the fumes that hang over Corio of a night, whether it be Hurds or Shell. Just kiddng mate. grew up in that part of the world!! :gren:

G'day Redrum, :
What you say is true mate but only if the wind is blowing from the North West or the South East, I'm working on a way to bottle it and sell it as a fuel booster for Holdens
I lived in Tully for a time then moved down to Bundy for a few years but I finally ended up back in Corio, Vic...it's hard to stay away from a good thing : Besides, the weather here has been warmer than Brissy this year :

Cheers mate :

[InitialD]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Is this Keepleft's hippy brother?

bwahahahahahhahahhaha Im rolling off the chair laughing rob :P

Originally Posted by JC

You can safely use ethanol at up to 10% blend in Aussie cars. The only reason you shouldn't use more, is that ethanol corrodes the metals used in our fuel pipes. If the fuel pipes are replaced with non-corrosive (by ethanol) material, then you can run your car on whatever blend of ethanol you like. Cars sold in Brazil etc are modified using the right metal piping for ethanol (from memory, it could be copper, but I am probably wrong about that bit).

Thanks JC but I believe you have it a little bit wrong mate, by all the info' I have, Ethanol does not corrode metals but it will destroy rubber and certain plastics...that's why I'm trying to get info from other Aussies that are using Ethanol...to find out what I need to change before I jump in with both feet and...maybe sink :
Besides, I want to take things a step further by brewing my own Ethanol from apples or grape skins...Well, there are heaps of both around here for the asking so I may as well "try" to make use of them rather than see them going down the tip :

Cheers mate,
Bill...Kando...With a little help from my friends :sm_headba

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Is this Keepleft's hippy brother?

Still fooking laughing......some funny sh1t there mate

[ebxr8240]

May find this interesting..I think its Methonol thats corrosive ??
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0

[JC]

Originally Posted by Kando

Thanks JC but I believe you have it a little bit wrong mate, by all the info' I have, Ethanol does not corrode metals but it will destroy rubber and certain plastics...

Yes and No. I'm wrong, but right. Here's why. Ethanol iselft doesn't corrode metal (in its own right), but it does help the fuel in the ethanol blend to absorb more water, and the water is what makes the metal components rust, and eventually fail. This is why a 10% mix is about right, as it would take years for the metals to rust with only a 10% mix "encouraging" the absorption of water into fuel.

[XR Martin]

You know where Brazil grows all the sugar cane to produce Ethanol? In the Amazon, or whats left of it. They get a couple of seasons from a piece of land then move on to another area which has been cut down.
Plus sugar cane requires tropical climate and a massive amount of water, something we dont have alot of, so its not really viable here. Or perhaps you'd rather cheap fuel than Queensland's rainforests?

[JC]

Martin - fair point, but it can be made from any vegetable product basically. Most of the stuff made in Oz is made from wheat and/or cane.

[ebxr8240]

http://www.ford.com/en/vehicles/spec...al/ethanol.htm
;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/11960.shtml

[ebxr8240]

Some tech..
Tuning Tip: Ethanol Content

We've had a few reports where users could not “nail down” their tune on the street with the LM-1. The AFR's would jump about 0.5 AFR across the WOT band even in the same weather conditions in the space of a few days. Instead of holding a tune, the engine seemed to slowly “yodel.”

Naturally the first thing to blame was the LM-1. But it turned out that the users filled up at different gas stations, sometimes filling up on gas that had 10% ethanol mixed in. As expected, when Schnapps is mixed with cars, things get a little complicated.

If ethanol (stoich AFR of 9) is mixed with gasoline (stoich AFR of 14.7) the resulting gas has a lower stoich AFR than 'pure' gasoline. As the fuel injection is tuned to mix a certain amount of fuel for a given amount of air, the resulting mixture would be leaner when using a fuel with lower stoich AFR.

This can be calculated:

sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100

where:
sAFR is resulting stoich AFR
%ofAdditive is amount in % of mass of additive (ethanol) mixed in
sAFRadditive is stoich AFR of additive (9 for ethanol)
sAFRgas is stoich AFR of base gasoline (14.7)

For a 10% mixture of ethanol to gasoline by mass the resulting stoich AFR is 14.13

So, for an engine that's tuned to certain AFR at a certain load and RPM on straight gas, the resulting (gasoline equivalent) AFR when running the mixture can be calculated as:

new AFR = tuned gas AFR * (gasoline stoich ratio) / blend stoich ratio

An engine tuned to 12.5 gas AFR will run at the equivalent of 13 gas AFR with a 10% ethanol blend. This is what these people were seeing.

Of course, when running in closed loop, the engine will run at 14.13 AFR instead of 14.7. O2 sensors (incl. widebands) don’t measure AFR, but Lambda. Lambda is defined as actual AFR/stoich AFR. It's a ratio. In closed loop part throttle the engine is just running at Lambda 1.0, regardless of fuel. The same would be true for other Lambda values when running closed loop at WOT using a wideband. The engine would run at the tuned Lambda and everything would be fine. Open loop systems would need to be retuned for alcohol blends though.

[AUIII XR8 MAN]

Very interesting. I guess we all need to start looking for other fuel sources as petrol becomes costly for everyday driving needs. I like the sound of these flex-fuel cars. I wonder when Oz will start seeing these car over here.

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

You know where Brazil grows all the sugar cane to produce Ethanol? In the Amazon, or whats left of it. They get a couple of seasons from a piece of land then move on to another area which has been cut down.
Plus sugar cane requires tropical climate and a massive amount of water, something we dont have alot of, so its not really viable here. Or perhaps you'd rather cheap fuel than Queensland's rainforests?

: Last time I checked, most of Australia was tropical, from Northern NSW to the top end (North and Far North Queensland) and right across the top from east to west then down the west coast for a few thousand miles!
Here in Australia we don't have to cut down the remaining QL rainforest, or any other rainforest!
We have had hundreds, if not thousands, of sugarcane farms in Northern NSW and Queensland for over 100 years!
When I worked on the King Ranch in Tully, NQ, over 20 years ago, there were heaps of cane farms all around, in fact if my memory serves me well, from Northern NSW right up to Cains and beyond, they were mostly cane and banana farms and a lot of those blokes had started their cane farm 30 and more years before that, some were fourth generation cane farmers and if you think they are short on water up in the cane country...then you haven't been in Tully or up north on a rainy day never mind the wet season!
They get more rain in a day than Canberra gets for the whole year!
At times, workers for the King Ranch banana plantation and the other veggie growing sections who live in Tully have to go into work...by boat! And that's No BS!

Besides, Ethanol can be brewed from bananas, apples, spuds, cabbages, pears, wheat, corn and lots of other grown products! You don't need to use cane, you can use all the fruit that those poor sods of fruit farmers are now dumping due to all the cheap imports coming into Australia! Ethanol is brewed the same way as you would brew any other alcohol and you can use the same ingredients and tools...even old stale beer and yeast!
Turning farmed products, i.e. fruit and veg, into a viable fuel, could possibly solve a lot of the Aussie farmers financial problems as well as our fuel problems…or perhaps you think it’s better for us to keep paying the high prices for petroleum based fuels, prices set by the multinational oil companies and backed-up to the hilt by all parties of our greedy government!
Or perhaps you think that the oil producing nations, of which Australia is one, will take pity on the common Aussie and drop the price of fuel! Fat chance! I have news for you mate! Fuel will only increase in price…not go down!
Silly bugger that I am, I sold my 80 acres in the hills at the back of Childers back in 1988…My old mate Snowy, advised me that I was a silly old bugger and I should not sell my land!
Why? Because they aint making any more land and once you sell it you’ll never get it back! He was dead right!
The same goes for oil…but more so! Oil is a dwindling Non renewable resource! Just wait a few more “months” not years, till China gets into full production mode and starts buying even more oil than they buy now…then you’ll see what we’ll be paying for petrol!

Perhaps you’re financially rich or have a company or government car where you don’t pay for fuel…I myself don’t give a dam if the price of petrol goes to $20 a litre, I’ll still keep and drive my Fairlane and my Saab, fortunately I’m in a position to do so but there are plenty of people who are having problems over cars due to the price of fuel now…where will they be if fuel costs go beyond their reach? Or perhaps that’s not important to you.
Unfortunately we Australians “need” our cars…some more than others, it’s not like living in London, New York, Paris or any other city! In those cities and most countries, you can jump on a bus or a train and get where you want to go quickly!
Have you ever tried to get to some bush town, not an outback town, a bush town, by public transport? Or even to get from one side of Melbourne or Sydney to the other by public transport? It’s not easy mate! Try it sometime when you have a day to kill!

So! I will persist in learning all I can about Ethanol and other renewable fuels and running a car on 100% Ethanol as well as E85…Not because I can’t afford petrol, that’s the least of my worries, but because I enjoy learning new things, plus…I don’t believe governments use the billions of dollars generated from taxes wisely and if we can find a better way to “use” the locally grown products that are now being dumped down the tip and help Aussie farmers at the same time…then I’m all for it mate!

One thing more before I put away my soapbox...Did you know there is a car in Melbourne that cost about 20 cents a day to run?
It's a full four seater small electric car with a range of about 160 Kilometres between charges, it can be plugged into any standard 10amp power-point for charging and cost about 20 cents worth of electricity to charge from empty to full capacity!
True, it’s no use for a long trip, top speed is 65KPH but it’s perfect for people who live in the city or for people who only do short trips.
These cars were created in Spain but they are now used all over Europe in the cities, even in London and other cities in the UK.
A great car I think for retired and other city dwellers, I would buy one for the wife…the price for one of these brand new cars would be just under $15,000.
And the Australian importer in Melbourne has one right now, if fact he has had it for well over two years but…he can’t get to show it of! He states that he has people lining-up to buy the car but he can’t sell a single car!
Why not?
Because the car is stuck in a bonded warehouse and customs won’t release it!
Why not?
Because in Victoria, nor any other state in Australia, there is no classification for the car!
The English importer had the same problem with English classifications but the pommy government created a classification for the car and got it through parliament … in nine (9) days!
So why can’t the Aussie government do the same? You tell me!
A spokesman for the RACV stated publicly on TV, that the Australian government will “never” create a classification for these cars and they (the governments of the day) will never, in our lifetime, permit these cars to appear on the roads of Australian towns and cities!
Why not? Because they, Australian governments of the day, would loose too much money in fuel taxes and speeding fines!
And that’s a fact! :

[blutura]

the fact that almost everytime you answer a criticism on this subject, you go off on a thousand word rant, is not helping your appearance as a raving lunatic.

calm down, lay off the sugar pills and confine your posts to a more intelligent, succinct response, and you may find more people listening to what your saying.

[EDManual]

PETROL IN THE US IS NOT US$4 a GALLON, but an average of just $2.30, which is around $3 australian for 3.75 litres. THAT IS ONLY 80cents a litre.
see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317029/


Why do we pay $1.25?!!!

Originally Posted by blutura

the fact that almost everytime you answer a criticism on this subject, you go off on a thousand word rant, is not helping your appearance as a raving lunatic.

calm down, lay off the sugar pills and confine your posts to a more intelligent, succinct response, and you may find more people listening to what your saying.

G’day mate, :

Constructive criticism is okay in my book but… criticizing a product, a service or anything else when the person/s doing the criticizing doesn’t “seem” to have a clue on what is required to create the product or the service carried out…well that to me is like me criticizing anything when I know nothing on that subject!
Quite simply I can’t do it…because I know “nothing” on the subject!
On the other hand, I do know how to build a still and make alcohol but… I “don’t” know how to use Ethanol…safely…in any inner combusting engine of today!

I know that here in Australia a number of people drove their cars and trucks on 100% Ethanol during the war years when petrol was rationed to most people.
Furthermore, in 2007 “all” cars in the Indy Car Series in the USA will be run on 100% Ethanol. Check their site: http://www.drivingethanol.org/aspx/i...g/default.aspx

If people were running on 100% Ethanol during the years of the last war and the drivers of Indy Cars will be running on 100% Ethanol in 2007… and those cars will be traveling at over 220 “mph”, a speed much faster than I need to travel at… then I “want” to learn what I need to do to my cars to safely run my cars on 100% Ethanol!
I don’t want to hear someone sprouting that the sky will fall, or we will have to chop down all “our” remaining forest for motorist to convert to Ethanol or another alternative fuel!
Being one of those people who firmly believe we can do whatever we put our minds to and do it with little or no impact on our environment plus sharing (not selling) information is the best way to achieve things…I will continue to seek information and advice on 100% Ethanol driven cars.

As to:
>the fact that almost everytime you answer a criticism on this subject, you go off on a thousand word rant, is not helping your appearance as a raving lunatic.

Yes mate, you're right…I must admit…I do get a bit fired up on a number of things, like governments, federal and state, that screw battling Aussies while looking after themselves and their mates, fuel taxes and some other things, including people with the “I/We can’t do anything about it” mentality! I guess it must have something to do with the Irish, Scottish and Greek blood running in my veins. out:
In future I shall try real hard to refrain from getting on my soapbox and airing my grievances to one and all.

Bill...Kando...With a little help from my friends _2:

Originally Posted by EDManual

PETROL IN THE US IS NOT US$4 a GALLON, but an average of just $2.30, which is around $3 australian for 3.75 litres. THAT IS ONLY 80cents a litre.
see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317029/


Why do we pay $1.25?!!!

G'day Ed,

The four bucks is charged for petrol in Brazil...Not the USA.
As to why we Aussies pay $1.25 plus per litre? That's due to Aussie government fuel taxes mate it:

Cheers mate :

[Casper]

I think the ethanol debate has been going now for about a year or so (strange, same length of time as the forum.. weird).
Personally I see it this way.
As a performance fuel I cant see 100% ethanol replacing petrol..not enough kick (like LPG, not enough kick). When it comes to a good, affordable performace fuel pertol is king.
HOWEVER....
Given 99% of the time vehicles are not performance based and of those 1%, about 90% of the time a full performance fuel is not needed, it leaves a huge market for Ethanol fuel's.
I have run the 10% blended 98RON fuel in my XR6 a number of times, no issues and, if anything, a smoother feel...... but I wont use it for going to the race track.. yet.
With newer cars the 10%blend is great option and cost effective without being damaging. Hell, if they made a 100% Ethanol fuel and cars that were esigned to run on it I'd love that too.... as a commuting vehicle it would be cheap to run... probably cheaper then LPG. Not performance people, commuting. All the performance people step back from the keyboard... I'm not saying its better then petrol

As for making it... it can come from any sort of waste product (biomass) as JC said. Given the wastage in this country of everything from oranges getting dumped by the ton to straw being plowed under by the tens of tons to sugercane being left to rot buy the hundreds of tons, I dont think there is a shortage of product to make it from.
No extra water needed, its already there right now.

Yes, I'm pro Ethanol... kind of.

Originally Posted by Casper

As a performance fuel I cant see 100% ethanol replacing petrol..not enough kick (like LPG, not enough kick). When it comes to a good, affordable performace fuel pertol is king.

G'day Casper...Ethanol mate :

Check out the Indy Racing Site at:
http://www.drivingethanol.org/aspx/...ng/default.aspx
The 220 MPH with 100% Ethanol driven cars is plenty fast enough for just about anyone racing a car in Australia.
I can't wait to see what conversion the engineers had to make to the engines and running gear to run the cars on 100% Ethanol...Hope they reveal all the details!

Yes mate...Lets get back to being the smart country we used to be and start using all the great products we produce here in Australia...instead of dumping them down the tip sending growers broke in the process...enough is enough!

[Des]

Originally Posted by Kando

G'day Casper...Ethanol mate :

Check out the Indy Racing Site at:
http://www.drivingethanol.org/aspx/...ng/default.aspx
The 220 MPH with 100% Ethanol driven cars is plenty fast enough for just about anyone racing a car in Australia.
I can't wait to see what conversion the engineers had to make to the engines and running gear to run the cars on 100% Ethanol...Hope they reveal all the details!

Yes mate...Lets get back to being the smart country we used to be and start using all the great products we produce here in Australia...instead of dumping them down the tip sending growers broke in the process...enough is enough!

10% ethanol - 90% methanol for 2006 and 100% ethanol for 2007.
Will be interesting to see the changes required and the resultant performance and reliability.

[cupic]

if they can guarentee ethanol safe people might convert @ a cheaper price to petrol

[Casper]

Ethanol in indy is fine... but what would they do on real petrol?
Sorry, petrol still has more kick the ethanol..

I'd still run 100% Ethanol in the family car if I could.

[GTENVY]

Originally Posted by EDManual

PETROL IN THE US IS NOT US$4 a GALLON, but an average of just $2.30, which is around $3 australian for 3.75 litres. THAT IS ONLY 80cents a litre.
see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9317029/


Why do we pay $1.25?!!!

Don't forget the the US standard unleaded fuel is only rated at 86 RON not 92 like ours is!