Wade 1004@112 Cam Questions

falcon_ea-ed · 13-03-2005, 11:41 PM

yeah i know there is alot of info around on these cams but im just wondering if any1 has exact details on how much power you can expect to gain from one of these cams (Stock car or one with full exhaust) Also how much does one of these cams cost to get installed and who do you get to install them???
One more thing do u just need the cam or do u also need shims, vernier gear ect.
Thanks all.

Walkinshaw · 14-03-2005, 01:34 PM

this cam with extractors+2.5" in an auto should push just over 130rwkw, and 140 in a manual.

To buy the cam, pricing depends on wether its exchange and postage costs, ring Wade to get an exact answer. Another forum also offers cheap deals on Wade cams.

Instalation can be done at home with some washers a 10+17mm socket and a few hours.

You need shims for the 1004/112, 1mm of shims should be sufficent. Vernier gear is not required unless you want to dial the cam in.

NC_Steve · 14-03-2005, 02:54 PM

I think 130rwkw would be the best you could hope for with a 1004 and an auto, I would be expecting a bit less. 119rwkw was achieved by Gubas in his EB at the last dyno day and he was running a 1004@114, redback 2.5" and pacemaker extractors, K&N panel filter and XH snorkel. I remember reading ages ago on another forum that you can expect around a 6rwkw gain from just the cam itself with no other mods.

ned · 14-03-2005, 03:44 PM

I've got 114.7 at the wheels at the moment with a 2.5" cat back exhaust, XH snorkel and K&N flat panel filter, so I'm hoping that surely extractors and a cam will give me more than 130, yeh?

NC_Steve · 14-03-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ned

I've got 114.7 at the wheels at the moment with a 2.5" cat back exhaust, XH snorkel and K&N flat panel filter, so I'm hoping that surely extractors and a cam will give me more than 130, yeh?

Around 130 would be possible in your case. One thing I forgot about Gubas' car is he is still running stock ignition timing specs where as you are not.

Walkinshaw · 14-03-2005, 04:43 PM

iirc QuikCorty ran 142rwkw with 5speed ea and a 1004.

stockstandard · 14-03-2005, 05:04 PM

The best I got was 122rwkw with a 1004 cam. Was running very rich though so I think 130 is about what you could expect.

Of course there is going to be a lot of variation based on where people get their dynos done.

Sox · 14-03-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

Vernier gear is not required unless you want to dial the cam in.

I don't agree with this, a vernier gear is essential if you want it clocked up to spec, which should provide maximum spread of power.

Rick.

falcon_ea-ed · 14-03-2005, 05:57 PM

i dont really trust installing the cam myself- anyone have some reccomendations on where i can get it installed and the price of it?

Walkinshaw · 14-03-2005, 06:25 PM

Instalation price will vary from workshop to workshop. I would bank on say 2hrs labour.

If your also looking at a vernier it will be arround an extra $100.

Qwikcorty · 14-03-2005, 06:31 PM

i got 141rwkw, and didnt use a vernier gear . just put it in where the old one came out.

ned · 14-03-2005, 06:35 PM

Yeh, true steve I forgot that my timing was advanced a little, time will tell I spose, See whta happens once I get the extra goodies.

SileNceR · 14-03-2005, 06:54 PM

I got 117.6rwkw on the dyno day with 5spd, and no filter (or 115.6 with filter (k&n panel)), extractors, and autolite spark plugs,

what should I expect with a 1004 @ 114-110?

EDXR8 · 14-03-2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I don't agree with this, a vernier gear is essential if you want it clocked up to spec, which should provide maximum spread of power.

Rick.

The cam should be ground to the correct specs, you only need the vernier gear if you want to alter the specs and move the power band from the original specs.

As for the 1004 cam, I think the main thing is that even though it only gives 6-10rwkw improvement, there is also a big improvement in mid range power which is more important than peak power IMO.

neb · 14-03-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstandard

The best I got was 122rwkw with a 1004 cam. Was running very rich though so I think 130 is about what you could expect.

Of course there is going to be a lot of variation based on where people get their dynos done.

hey just wondering what power are you making now?

Sox · 14-03-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDXR8

The cam should be ground to the correct specs, you only need the vernier gear if you want to alter the specs and move the power band from the original specs.

Not so, many cams are not ground to the correct centerline, hence need a little tweaking. I've seen this more times than not.

The other thing is, you need to take timing chain stretch into account.

As I said, a vernier gear is a must for accurate cam degreeing.

Rick.

EDXR8 · 14-03-2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Not so, many cams are not ground to the correct centerline, hence need a little tweaking. I've seen this more times than not.

The other thing is, you need to take timing chain stretch into account.

As I said, a vernier gear is a must for accurate cam degreeing.

Rick.

I have installed 4 cams in my V8 and each time the cam specs were perfect with the cam installed straight up, which is what I would expect from decent cam grinders. I do agree that a vernier gear is a good idea but I don't think you absolutly need one.

Sox · 14-03-2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDXR8

I have installed 4 cams in my V8 and each time the cam specs were perfect with the cam installed straight up, which is what I would expect from decent cam grinders. I do agree that a vernier gear is a good idea but I don't think you absolutly need one.

You've been lucky, I've installed hundreds (literally), and at least 85% of them needed clocking up, hence a vernier gear of some sort.

BTW, not just in Ford I6's.

Rick.

NC_Steve · 14-03-2005, 11:43 PM

So will having the cam dialed in give you a higher peak power or will it just move the power band up/down the rev range?

Sox · 14-03-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Steve

So will having the cam dialed in give you a higher peak power or will it just move the power band up/down the rev range?

It will give you the best spread of power, for maximum performance, just what the cam grinder intended.

Rick.

Thanatos · 15-03-2005, 08:24 AM

A vernier gear is by no means a MUST! It is highly recommended if you want everything to be perfect and to get the most out of your cam, but you can certainly do without it. ;)

My car made 136rwkw with a stock EA head, lukey extractors and 2.5"exhaust, minor intake mods, and a Wade 1004 / 110.

Sox · 15-03-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

A vernier gear is by no means a MUST! It is highly recommended if you want everything to be perfect and to get the most out of your cam, but you can certainly do without it. ;)

Is this similar to your methods of setting ignition timing?
She'll be right mate......

Ask any competant engine builder what there opinion is on cam degree-ing.
Throwing a new cam in without clocking it up is a very hit and miss affair, and you'll only hit the jackpot by pure luck.

How many cams have you installed, and clocked up?

Rick.

EFFalcon · 15-03-2005, 08:51 AM

no ones saying "DON'T GET ONE"
we're simply saying, you don't *NEED* one.
i have Thanatos' old cam in my car, 1004 110 and i noticed gains straight away, i'm not saying there isnt more in it with proper timing (i'm happy if there is) but the fact is its not 100% neccesary.

therefore ppl have stated it is 'optional'

Thanatos · 15-03-2005, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Is this similar to your methods of setting ignition timing?
She'll be right mate......

Ask any competant engine builder what there opinion is on cam degree-ing.
Throwing a new cam in without clocking it up is a very hit and miss affair, and you'll only hit the jackpot by pure luck.

How many cams have you installed, and clocked up?

Rick.

Here we go with your misconceptions about my ignition timing again, huh? I think someone needs to get a life! :P

Re-read what i said. Now stop. Now re-read it again. Ok, you get it that time? A vernier gear is by NO MEANS A MUST! YOU WILL NOT GET THE SAME GAINS, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ONE IN ORDER TO GET SOME NICE GAINS.

It's a fact, there's enough people around here who don't have vernier gears and still saw a gain in power when fitting their cam (ok, not as much perhaps as they would've with a vernier gear), learn to deal with it.

Sox · 15-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Here we go with your misconceptions about my ignition timing again, huh? I think someone needs to get a life! :P

I have a great life, though thanks for the concern.

Quote:

Re-read what i said. Now stop. Now re-read it again. Ok, you get it that time? A vernier gear is by NO MEANS A MUST! YOU WILL NOT GET THE SAME GAINS, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ONE IN ORDER TO GET SOME NICE GAINS.

And again, this is a very hit and miss affair, and may lead to a lot of dissapointment. If you're happy with that, good for you, I'm not.

Quote:

It's a fact, there's enough people around here who don't have vernier gears and still saw a gain in power when fitting their cam

It's also a fact that many people have fitted cams and have been very dissapointed, a dissapointment which would not have happened if it had of been clocked up.

Quote:

(ok, not as much perhaps as they would've with a vernier gear), learn to deal with it.

I don't need to deal with anything matey, the OP asked if a vernier is neccesary, and I'm stating a very clear yes.

You on the other hand feel that it isn't neccesary, that's fine by me, though don't state that your opinion is fact, when it isn't.

Rick.

Thanatos · 15-03-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I have a great life, though thanks for the concern.

No worries, mate ;) Then why don't you go on living it and forget about my ignition timing ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

And again, this is a very hit and miss affair, and may lead to a lot of dissapointment. If you're happy with that, good for you, I'm not.

It's also a fact that many people have fitted cams and have been very dissapointed, a dissapointment which would not have happened if it had of been clocked up.

I don't need to deal with anything matey, the OP asked if a vernier is neccesary, and I'm stating a very clear yes.

You on the other hand feel that it isn't neccesary, that's fine by me, though don't state that your opinion is fact, when it isn't.

Rick.

I have yet to see a cam installed that saw no gains simply because it wasn't dialed in. Therefore the gains are there WITHOUT using a vernier gear. You will get more gains with one, but it's not necessary.

Dictionary definition of necessary: "1. Absolutely essential"

Is a vernier absolutely essential in order to fit a cam?? NO!

Is it absolutely esential in order to get the most out of the cam? Most Of the Time!

Sox · 15-03-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatos

No worries, mate ;) Then why don't you go on living it and forget about my ignition timing ;)

Nah, I'm never gonna forget that doozy......

Quote:

I have yet to see a cam installed that saw no gains simply because it wasn't dialed in. Therefore the gains are there WITHOUT using a vernier gear.

And this is the difference between you and me.
As I've said in a previous post, I've installed 100's of cams, and I've also seen many engine builders not clock up a cam. Many times these engines have actually gone backwards power wise, simply because the camshaft is sitting 10deg retarded.

This is a lot more common than you think, and there are many causes for it, timing chain stretch, head skimming, thinner head gaskets, worn guides, cams not machined accurately.

Tell me, how many cams have you fitted, dyno tested, then clocked up and re-dyno tested.

Rick.

Thanatos · 15-03-2005, 09:38 AM

Rick, i'm sick of these bullshit arguments with you.

If you want to continue living in your ideal world, where EVERYTHING that has ANY kind of benefit suddenly becomes 100% necessary, then so be it.

Just don't expect everyone else to be the same, some of us are a little more realistic, and we realise that, unless you are chasing MAXIMUM power, you can make compromises to save money, etc. and still be perfectly happy with the results.

Thanatos · 15-03-2005, 09:41 AM

Oh, and incidently, my last cam (1004 / 110, which is now in john's car) i went to dial in (as i have a vernier gear), only to discover that there was NO ADJUSTMENT NECESSARY.

I have also seen this happen on a 1004 /112 in my mates EF fairmont.

Walkinshaw · 15-03-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Is this similar to your methods of setting ignition timing?
She'll be right mate......

Shit stirring for the sake of stirring right there if I've ever seen it.