VFACTS April '07

[mattcosa]

As according to drive.com.au

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=38829&vf=2

Scary figure for Falcon, not helped by the manufacturing supplier issues last month.

Reminds me of the AU sales figures, and I know BF is better positioned that AU was.

1. Holden Commodore 4724

2. Mazda3 2438

3. Toyota Yaris 2325

4. Ford Falcon 2255

5. Toyota Corolla 2202

6. Toyota Camry 1975

7. Toyota Aurion 1715

8. Hyundai Getz 1640

9. Ford Focus 1381

10. Holden Astra 1198

11. Honda Civic 1180

12. Honda Jazz 1157

13. Ford Territory 1104

14. Mitsubishi Lancer 1097

15. Toyota Prado 1075

16. Toyota RAV4 1043

17. Suzuki Swift 1039

18. Nissan X-Trail 1027

19. Mazda6 1010

20. Holden Captiva 955

[Hally]

Interesting that the Captiva is just 160 odd sales behind Territory. I am suprised by that.

[FlipXW]

Originally Posted by Hally

Interesting that the Captiva is just 160 odd sales behind Territory. I am suprised by that.

I bet if it was dawoo badged things would be alot different. And more than double commos sold than falcons thats the scary part

[ClevlndStemer]

Mazda3 is doing well, very well. Camry/Aurion once again beat the Falcon with Commodore on top. Ford should be worried the falcon is suffering badly. Orion is needed soon and hopefully its a decent product.

[swanee]

Just looking at carsales... there are alot more VE commodores for sale than BF2 Falcons.

53 Falcons (and other variants) Vs 126 VE Commodore (and other variants) for sale at dealerships.

Is it becuase people are more satisfied with the Fords?

[mattcosa]

Originally Posted by swanee

Just looking at carsales... there are alot more VE commodores for sale than BF2 Falcons.

53 Falcons (and other variants) Vs 126 VE Commodore (and other variants) for sale at dealerships.

Is it becuase people are more satisfied with the Fords?

Probably because there are twice as many VE's, there for there are twice as many for sale second hand?

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by swanee

Is it becuase people are more satisfied with the Fords?

I'd severely doubt that for an answer. It would have something more to do with fleet purchasing.

Likewise, the massive majority of VE and Falcon sales are to fleets and not to private purchases.

[bathurst77]

camry/aurion combined 3690 makes it 2nd and falcon 5th

Interesting the fall off in corolla numbers, was 1st or 2nd for a few months there

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by philxy351

I bet if it was dawoo badged things would be alot different. And more than double commos sold than falcons thats the scary part

Maybe holding off for ORION ??
It's not that far off now and B series platform is pretty old hat.........not that appealing anymore to potential new car buyers.

I've seen heaps of Toyota AURIONS on the road. Not a bad looking car, don't know how they go dynamics wise, but they are selling like hotcakes.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Interesting the fall off in corolla numbers, was 1st or 2nd for a few months there

New model is due in about 3 months. Also interesting to see Holden Barina has dropped off the face of the earth. Maybe Toyota and Holden have had supply issues this month.

[Fairlane]

Mazda 3 still selling well, Yaris wiping the floor from the other mini cars- Astra (Focus doing better with no diesel) getting caned and Tiida still a disaster seem to be the main results.

Good to see the territory has weathered all that Captiva hype pretty well.

Otherwise I still cant believe Nissan still sell that many X-trails, they are as old as methusala- especially when compared to something like the Kluger (which i dont even hear of anymore)

And finally Where are these 1000 car fleet orders for the 380 as well? it still hasnt bumped up into the top 20

[Smoke Pursuit]

Fords poor sales comes down to poor marketing, holdens already started marketing for the end of the Financial year? Whats ford doing, chucking some extras on and selling cars at retail, if they had any brains they would discount the cars harder, eg BF XT $29,990 drive away! instead of BF ES Pack for $36990 drive away?? (not to mention the fact that they only built a handful). and they should drop the Territory TX RWD price back to $35990 drive away, to compete with this new captiva shitbox.

BFII hasnt done well since the day it was launched, maybe Ford should have spent a few million and gave it more then a nose job to get it thru the 18 months it has to live.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Fords poor sales comes down to poor marketing, holdens already started marketing for the end of the Financial year? Whats ford doing, chucking some extras on and selling cars at retail, if they had any brains they would discount the cars harder, eg BF XT $29,990 drive away! instead of BF ES Pack for $36990 drive away?? (not to mention the fact that they only built a handful). and they should drop the Territory TX RWD price back to $35990 drive away, to compete with this new captiva shitbox.

Reducing the price per vehicle is going to give Ford Australia a lower retail margin, meaning there is even less money going forward for the Orion, not to mention, wiping of $7k is going to have a major effect on resale which is exactly what gave Ford a lot of trouble previously when it heavily discounted ELs against the then recently released VT commodore and TE Magna back in 97. And resale is a pretty important issue with the current position of the B series Falcons.

The BA2 and BF already has the lowest resale of any Australia car at the minute - around about 38% value after three years on an XT. The resale for Falcon is even worse than the resale on Mitsubishi's 380.

Likewise, as for the argument on reducing the price of the Territory (which is the only model with any sort of consistant sales), many of the purchases are private purchases involving the higher spec trims whereby Ford makes a healthier profit due to the up-scale pricing ability.

As for advertising, given the fact that the Orion is just around the corner, it would make prudent sense to reduce expenditure on BF advertising and save for the Orion launch. The B series is at the end of it's lifespan, and the VE is the better, newer car in the market's eyes. Spending millions on a large marketing campaign now would be like flogging a dead horse. I would imagine that private sales of the vehicle are now dwindling except for the FPV variants.

[mattcosa]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Reducing the price per vehicle is going to give Ford Australia a lower retail margin, meaning there is even less money going forward for the Orion, not to mention, wiping of $7k is going to have a major effect on resale which is exactly what gave Ford a lot of trouble previously when it heavily discounted ELs against the then recently released VT commodore and TE Magna back in 97. And resale is a pretty important issue with the current position of the B series Falcons.

The BA2 and BF already has the lowest resale of any Australia car at the minute - around about 38% value after three years on an XT. The resale for Falcon is even worse than the resale on Mitsubishi's 380.

Likewise, as for the argument on reducing the price of the Territory (which is the only model with any sort of consistant sales), many of the purchases are private purchases involving the higher spec trims whereby Ford makes a healthier profit due to the up-scale pricing ability.

As for advertising, given the fact that the Orion is just around the corner, it would make prudent sense to reduce expenditure on BF advertising and save for the Orion launch. The B series is at the end of it's lifespan, and the VE is the better, newer car in the market's eyes. Spending millions on a large marketing campaign now would be like flogging a dead horse. I would imagine that private sales of the vehicle are now dwindling except for the FPV variants.

Great post. Tom said something about all this at the start of the year. I still think they do need to increase exposure on ES Falcon (the one with stability, 6sp auto etc). Falcon B series is still a really great platform, only second in comparison to the comparative VE V8 range (including Calais, SS SS-V). XR6 "looks" a little flat now in comparison to the SV6 or whatever theyve called it now.

Base model XT still is a competitive product, just not exposed enough (VE is fresher in the eyes of the market).

[Falc'man]

Yeah I agree, they should be focused alot more on selling the Falcon ES, its a bloody good car for the money. Esp, ZF 6sp, Ford badge, what more could you want?

Who knows whats going on with the Fiesta these days? They should be shifting heaps of those. For a car that looks so cool, I'm surprised its not in the top 15 let alone top 20.

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by ESP

Maybe holding off for ORION ??
It's not that far off now and B series platform is pretty old hat.........not that appealing anymore to potential new car buyers.

I've seen heaps of Toyota AURIONS on the road. Not a bad looking car, don't know how they go dynamics wise, but they are selling like hotcakes.

The Aurion provides the best balance of power, size, fuel economy and looks. Fuel economy is fantastic. Average is always 9.9 - 10.4 L/100km, which is very good for a 3.5L V6 engine.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

The Aurion provides the best balance of power, size, fuel economy and looks. Fuel economy is fantastic. Average is always 9.9 - 10.4 L/100km, which is very good for a 3.5L V6 engine.

The power it has is wasted, is so hobbled by traction control aids that it may as well have 2/3rds the power. As for economy the one I drove dropped nearly a 1/4 in about 100kms, pretty crap if you ask me, granted it was getting a workout but still.....Couldnt tell you the exact L/100 because it didnt have a trip computer, either that or I couldnt figure how to get it up. The one I drove suffered driveline shunt when manually changing from 2nd to first, and it only had 5000kms on it. I didnt study it too hard but the driver's side of the dash didnt look like it lined up properly with the door trim either.

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

The power it has is wasted, is so hobbled by traction control aids that it may as well have 2/3rds the power. As for economy the one I drove dropped nearly a 1/4 in about 100kms, pretty crap if you ask me, granted it was getting a workout but still.....Couldnt tell you the exact L/100 because it didnt have a trip computer, either that or I couldnt figure how to get it up. The one I drove suffered driveline shunt when manually changing from 2nd to first, and it only had 5000kms on it. I didnt study it too hard but the driver's side of the dash didnt look like it lined up properly with the door trim either.

This months (or last months, whatever one had the new REX on it) Wheels didn't think the Aurion was all that crash hot. They thought the dynamics of it were poor and belonged out on the ocean. The interior while nice wasn't what you would call stylish or of high quality. They weren't able to get anything under 11 for fuel either.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

This months (or last months, whatever one had the new REX on it) Wheels didn't think the Aurion was all that crash hot. They thought the dynamics of it were poor and belonged out on the ocean. The interior while nice wasn't what you would call stylish or of high quality. They weren't able to get anything under 11 for fuel either.

Thanks for bringing this months Wheels comparison article to attention ClevlndStemer (Commodore/380/Falcon/Aurion) - its a bit more scientific than our Toyota troll. Those who doubt the Falcon should also read the review. The Toyota's spooky driving dynamics and the fact that it handles like a barge in a flood tide don't affect sales though - Australians flock to it like sheep because its a T-o-y-o-t-a.

[mattcosa]

Originally Posted by QualityCounts

The Aurion provides the best balance of power, size, fuel economy and looks. Fuel economy is fantastic. Average is always 9.9 - 10.4 L/100km, which is very good for a 3.5L V6 engine.

Yeh - I challenge those claims. I'll like to have a good read of a proper real world comparison.

Isnt it a 3.0 litre engine as well?

[Poetic Justice]

No. 3.5L only.

Our sales guys drive Aurion's here and all do well in the fuel economy department. Perhaps people who are criticising the economy of these vehicles are also the people who got their hands on one for a day or so (or whatever) and give it a flogging to see how the car goes.

Could I point out:

* For daily driving the fuel economy of the Aurion, if not matching the marketed fuel usage - it's not far off it.

* For daily driving, you don't throw an AT-X, Prodigy or Presara into corners hard so I'm not understanding the whole critical fact of its handling. For daily driving, every Aurion out there handles well and the Sportivo even better.

It seems like everyone here is a boy racer and only judges a car on how fast and hard they could drive it to work in the morning. I really don't think this is Toyota's aim with any of their cars.

Furthermore, in regards to the Corolla, the new generation Corolla should be in dealerships as early as 14th May 07. I'm expecting mine around that time with it's new 6 speed manual!

[new2ford]

blackout, the issue of handling isn't just related to the 'racing' fraternity. Its also how comfortable the car is to drive - perhaps not a big deal on short city distances but definitely on longer distances. Apart from the primary safety issues, lack of precision in handling produces a tense driver because the car doesn't give you confidence and you're always on guard for the unpredictable. My experience in driving fleet Toyotas on country trips is to feel spooked, you always have to 'work' the car. They're definitely not driver's cars. And they're often ergonomic nightmares with no legroom (if you're tall) and poor operating layouts. Compared to say a Ford, you feel buggered and stressed when you get back.

[merlin]

Got to agree with the whole Holden marketing being better. I have a female friend who works for Council and they get to choose off a list of government approved vehicles. She chose the base model Commodore. When I asked why she didn't get another Falcon (she currently has a BAMK2 Falcon) she stated that the Commodore was the "only Australian car with ESP standard across the board". I pointed out that at present the BF2 comes with a pack with ESP, 6 spd ect. but she had already been convinced that the Commodore was safer through the marketing.

[sleekism]

Does these raw numbers tell everything?

How much profit does Toyota and Holden make per vehicle?

What is the model mix, most BA,BF's I see on the road are XR series which must make quite a bit of profit, comparitively I hardly ever see an SV6.

Sales figures dont tell everything I've actually heard that Holden is in deficit, actually loses money with it's export program and that the Pontiac GTO was a relative flop in America.

There is no money in fleet sales, all the money is in retail which Ford has been trying to concentrate on since the AU.

Also Falcon and Territory sales should be counted together most wagon buyers switched to Territory and many Falcon private buyers also have switched to Territory.

Effectively the Territory cannobolises Falcon sales so in my mind the current sales of the Falcon considering it's an old platform are remarkable.

The Territory is probably Ford Oz's smartest move ever and probaly the reason why we still have the Falcon.

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by merlin

Got to agree with the whole Holden marketing being better. I have a female friend who works for Council and they get to choose off a list of government approved vehicles. She chose the base model Commodore. When I asked why she didn't get another Falcon (she currently has a BAMK2 Falcon) she stated that the Commodore was the "only Australian car with ESP standard across the board". I pointed out that at present the BF2 comes with a pack with ESP, 6 spd ect. but she had already been convinced that the Commodore was safer through the marketing.

The Aurion range is the only locally build car that has standard ESP, six airbags, six speed auto, dual exhausts, 8-way powered driver's seat, LED back lights and projector head lights.

[QualityCounts]

Originally Posted by mattcosa

Yeh - I challenge those claims. I'll like to have a good read of a proper real world comparison.

Isnt it a 3.0 litre engine as well?

The fuel economy is for an Aurion that has done more than 8500 km in 80% city and 20% highway driving. Ask anyone who has owned an Aurion for a few months and I'm pretty sure you'll hear the same fuel economy story. The 3.5L engine is certainly impressive.

[xrfalcon]

When i did work for a local council in Nsw changing the Handsfree kits a two ways over they went through holdens every 3 months but they had a deal going that the dealership would buy them back for x amount of dollars so they can get the turn over of cars was crazy

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Reducing the price per vehicle is going to give Ford Australia a lower retail margin, meaning there is even less money going forward for the Orion, not to mention, wiping of $7k is going to have a major effect on resale which is exactly what gave Ford a lot of trouble previously when it heavily discounted ELs against the then recently released VT commodore and TE Magna back in 97. And resale is a pretty important issue with the current position of the B series Falcons.

The BA2 and BF already has the lowest resale of any Australia car at the minute - around about 38% value after three years on an XT. The resale for Falcon is even worse than the resale on Mitsubishi's 380.

Likewise, as for the argument on reducing the price of the Territory (which is the only model with any sort of consistant sales), many of the purchases are private purchases involving the higher spec trims whereby Ford makes a healthier profit due to the up-scale pricing ability.

As for advertising, given the fact that the Orion is just around the corner, it would make prudent sense to reduce expenditure on BF advertising and save for the Orion launch. The B series is at the end of it's lifespan, and the VE is the better, newer car in the market's eyes. Spending millions on a large marketing campaign now would be like flogging a dead horse. I would imagine that private sales of the vehicle are now dwindling except for the FPV variants.

Yes true, I agree with most of what you said but if you sell loads of special runouts with 6 auto, Sports Suspension, ESP, Alloys etc etc the Joe Blogs Base 4 Auto 2 tenths of bugger all equiptment isnt going to keep a very good resale when they are on the market and as demos and superseeded anyway.

If I were Ford any BFs that are not sold when Orions launched I would let go a super runout prices for bargain shoppers, sell tons and then when everyones watching Falcons sales let them see 10 or 12 thousand sold letting them realise what a success the new model is as the figures are incorporated with the Orion as we all know people want whats all the rage...Oh wait thats what Holden do isnt it?...