Head on with a minibus full of elderly. Young driver madness.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Express

The severity of the penalty depends on intent.

Many people are killed by others without intent.

The next thing a victim’s family can hope for is neglect.

If negligence can’t be proven then it’s pure and simple an accident and heaven forbid if we start filling our gaols up because of accidents.

If drugs and alcohol aren’t involved I would think just from the face it and with the witness accounts the prosecution will aim towards negligence and if proven hopefully the sentence is long.

You are forgetting that he was (supposedly) unlicensed to be on the road driving that vehicle, intend is not really required in that situation.

So a prison sentence is very appropriate, as he made a choice to get behind the wheel when he is not licensed to do so, and on top of that apparently drove recklessly or in a manner dangerous occasioning death, so it's not an 'accident' as such.

He was (apparently) already disqualified from driving and he is a learner, so there is no real other way to stop tis guy from getting behind the wheel apart from locking him up.

[Express]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You are forgetting that he was (supposedly) unlicensed to be on the road driving that vehicle, intend is not really required in that situation.

So a prison sentence is very appropriate, as he made a choice to get behind the wheel when he is not licensed to do so, and on top of that apparently drove recklessly or in a manner dangerous occasioning death, so it's not an 'accident' as such.

He was (apparently) already disqualified from driving and he is a learner, so there is no real other way to stop tis guy from getting behind the wheel apart from locking him up.

Mate there is no way I’m defending this fellow.

Just saying not everyone deserves to spend half their life in a goal when someone is killed as accidents do happen.

This fellow from the appearance in this article should be locked up.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by MAD

Red lights are optional these days. They're only for people that aren't in a rush.

Same goes for Emergency lanes, left only lanes, right turn lanes, etc etc.
Any piece of tarmac is fair game.

Whilst it's slightly odd topic.

I have noticed a lot of people using turning lanes are there own personal overtaking lanes at lights. They will continue to do it as they will never get caught!

Practically, there is nothing stopping an unsafe driver from getting behind the wheel. It's scary to think that any of the other cars out there could intentionally crash into you.

[russellw]

The minibus was carrying seven residents aged between 71 and 94, a staff member and a volunteer from the nearby Ti Tree nursing home, who were just minutes into an outing to the beach.

... they didn't need an irresponsible young driver. Taking a bunch of circa octogenarians to the beach in the middle of a Victorian winter is hardly the act of a responsible person in the first place.

Cheers
Russ

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

... they didn't need an irresponsible young driver. Taking a bunch of circa octogenarians to the beach in the middle of a Victorian winter is hardly the act of a responsible person in the first place.

Cheers
Russ

They must be ex-pat eskimos.

[GT450]

You obviously don't intend to get old. It wouldn't matter if they were going to the cinema or ice skating this idiot did a stupid thing on a much used local road and one life is no longer with us because of this . It could have been your mother, grandmother , Aunt or sister , sorry but i don't see any humour in this situation and I hope the court dosen't either.
GT450

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by russellw

... they didn't need an irresponsible young driver. Taking a bunch of circa octogenarians to the beach in the middle of a Victorian winter is hardly the act of a responsible person in the first place.

Cheers
Russ

I doubt any of the elderly were driving, I would say a designated driver of the bus would have been driving.

What is wrong with going to the beach in winter?? Not everyone (especially over 70's) would be donning a bikini or speedos and surfing the waves, most elderly that I know would be happy to just sit near the beach and have a coffee and a bit of cake while enjoying the view and scenery getting out from their nursing home.

Surly you can't wish to deny an elderly person some simple pleasures in life??

Your post seems to have an implication of putting the repressibility back on the elderly people and/or the carers/volunteers looking after these old Australian Citizens who have every right to be on a bus to the beach regardless of season or state

Originally Posted by GT450

You obviously don't intend to get old. It wouldn't matter if they were going to the cinema or ice skating this idiot did a stupid thing on a much used local road and one life is no longer with us because of this . It could have been your mother, grandmother , Aunt or sister , sorry but i don't see any humour in this situation and I hope the court dosen't either.
GT450

Agree 200% with this post

[russellw]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I doubt any of the elderly were driving, I would say a designated driver of the bus would have been driving.

What is wrong with going to the beach in winter?? Not everyone (especially over 70's) would be donning a bikini or speedos and surfing the waves, most elderly that I know would be happy to just sit near the beach and have a coffee and a bit of cake while enjoying the view and scenery getting out from their nursing home.

Surly you can't wish to deny an elderly person some simple pleasures in life??

Your post seems to have an implication of putting the repressibility back on the elderly people and/or the carers/volunteers looking after these old Australian Citizens who have every right to be on a bus to the beach regardless of season or state

Agree 200% with this post

I see you've had a sense of humour bypass this morning. Lighten up.

Russ

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Someones dead grandmother or mother is probably not something I joke about, but each to their own I guess this is the Intranetz

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by russellw

I see you've had a sense of humour bypass this morning. Lighten up.

Russ

I'm with the others....there's joke threads for that. Some poor bugger died in a very harsh way.
Suggesting old people can't go to the beach in winter defies about a million basic ethically humane standards. imho.
But, it's a free world...

[Charliewool]

Ironic that 2 members with abnormally high amounts of red ink beside their names seize an opportunity for some payback time against admin??

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Express

Just saying not everyone deserves to spend half their life in a goal when someone is killed as accidents do happen.

Allot of people love to use the word accident, by definition an accident is:

"Where the outcome is not reasonably foreseeable".

Now you don't have to be very bright to see that the possible outcome of erratic driving and overtaking when unsafe to do so that could result in a head on collision is reasonably foreseeable, therefore it was not an accident!

[lucas2]

I heard from a source that the driver may have been under the influence of a substance. I'm sure VicPol may release more information once investigated further.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by lucas2

I heard from a source that the driver may have been under the influence of ice.

No excuse whatsoever. People should take more responsibility of their actions, and that includes taking drugs. The results of taking these drugs is well documented.

[lucas2]

I agree completely. It's a shame one's selfish actions may have been the cause of someone's death.

[ford71V8]

Workmate here lost his good friend from a hit and run the other week.
He was telling me yesterday the guy that did it sped off, burnt out his vehicle and threatened his female passenger with a gun to keep quiet when she wanted him to turn around. Lovely. The 2 little kids who saw it all (and lucky not to be dead also) now have no dad.
These people don't answer to anyone and do as they please apparently.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Workmate here lost his good friend from a hit and run the other week.
He was telling me yesterday the guy that did it sped off, burnt out his vehicle and threatened his female passenger with a gun to keep quiet when she wanted him to turn around. Lovely. The 2 little kids who saw it all (and lucky not to be dead also) now have no dad.
These people don't answer to anyone and do as they please apparently.

Now that's the type of actions I'd be happy to see absolutely EVERYTHING thrown at that guy. He used up all his 2nd chances in one go. That's disgusting. What a lowlife.

[mik]

Originally Posted by russellw

... they didn't need an irresponsible young driver. Taking a bunch of circa octogenarians to the beach in the middle of a Victorian winter is hardly the act of a responsible person in the first place.

Cheers
Russ

You may be reading too much into that Russ, i take my dear old 70+ mum to beach fairly often for a feed by the ocean , i think it would be doubtful they are going for a dip.

[GTP534]

I remember Frank Gardner had a Drive to Survive book (not sure if that's the right title).

He said no such thing as an accident - a crash is a crash. Someone has done something wrong to cause the incident and he wouldn't accept that as an accident.

[Charliewool]

Just heard a 2nd lady has died in hospital from this... Very sad way to end your years.. Poor old dear

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by GTP534

I remember Frank Gardner had a Drive to Survive book (not sure if that's the right title).

He said no such thing as an accident - a crash is a crash. Someone has done something wrong to cause the incident and he wouldn't accept that as an accident.

Yes, it was called "Drive to Survive". I still have my copy on the bookshelf which I refer to occasionally.

Unfortunately nearly all of it is now hopelessly out of date. People are no longer meant to know how to drive. Just follow the speed limit signs, traffic lights and the lane they are in. Everything else is controlled by ABS, ESC, AEB etc as well as dumbed down road rules and speed limits.

And some don't even want to drive to survive, like this idiot.

[GT450]

[QUOTE=russellw;5457500]I see you've had a sense of humour bypass this morning. Lighten up.

Russ[/QUOTE

No Humour at all on the death of two elderly citizens by what the local police believe to be a person under the influence. You are usually sensible Russell , a voice of reason I might say, but not on this occasion.
GT450

[russellw]

Originally Posted by GT450

No Humour at all on the death of two elderly citizens by what the local police believe to be a person under the influence. You are usually sensible Russell , a voice of reason I might say, but not on this occasion.
GT450

Maybe and maybe not. Depends on what the motivation was doesn't it?

But, hey, you stick to your opinion - I think I can live with it.

Russ

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You are forgetting that he was (supposedly) unlicensed to be on the road driving that vehicle, intend is not really required in that situation.

So a prison sentence is very appropriate, as he made a choice to get behind the wheel when he is not licensed to do so, and on top of that apparently drove recklessly or in a manner dangerous occasioning death, so it's not an 'accident' as such.

He was (apparently) already disqualified from driving and he is a learner, so there is no real other way to stop tis guy from getting behind the wheel apart from locking him up.

At a trial all the evidence & facts will be presented & prison sentence may be appropriate then again might not happen at all depending on prior offenses, if the magistrate sees signs of remorse for his actions & prospect of rehabilitation.

I find too many people here are prejudging before all the facts are known.

[XG_Falcon]

Just last night when I was on a walk at about 8.30pm, I noticed a silver Nissan S15 (non-turbo) absolutely flying down the main street of town - a 60km/h zone. Judging from the speed of other cars, he must have been going at least 120km/h - he was passing everyone like they were stationary. I actually stood watching in awe because I couldn't believe the stupidity especially considering how greasy the roads were...

Then he nearly hit another car when he had to plant the brakes for the blind-corner roundabout which caused him to understeer into the other cars lane. If someone had been crossing the road there (I just had), he would never have seen them at the speed he was going. The S15 sped off up a 50km/h zoned side road, judging from gear changes and engine note I'd say he was going at least 100km/h again.

Less than two minutes later I was passed by a police car apparently oblivious - heading in the opposite direction. So it seems like 9/10 idiots will continue to get away with it.

[MITCHAY]

If you kill or seriously injure someone from driving dangerously and/or under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, prison should be a given not an option as far as I'm concerned.

[tozaq]

Harsher penalty its called colpable driving and the scum only do 4 years prison it needs to change min 15 years and for people that die under the age of 18 because of a driver should get never to be released ,true accidental death is different,for instance my mum was doing 50 ks in a 60 ks zone a 53 year old woman looking at her phone stepped onto the medium strip and with out looking kept walking while looking at her phone,dont worry the woman was struck but survived,totaly different set of cercumstances .and today i was traviling down a back street at 50 ks and bloke in his 30's on a push bike and a t intersection ,he was at a stop sign, just slowly rolls out not caring hoping i would stop to let him continue,he was using the pedestrans have right away with the 1 meter pushbike clearance rule.but if i hit him im in the wrong colpable driving if he dies,or i could just stop the car pull the hand break get out and kick him off his bike for being a smart **** or just stop because this idiot is just that and thinks the world owes him that right.i quess theres an idiot born every minute and right now two more idiots have breed another one and its being born right now.then that idiot grows up under the guidence of there idoit parents ,17 years later they get a car and scream down the street at 120ks cause he can.it will never change its upto us to protect ourselves from the idiots because no one else will sad but thats just the way of the world we live in.

[Road Games]

Alrighty then ...

[Falcon Coupe]