6cyl EL Block - How far can I bore it out?

volcom20 · 19-03-2006, 02:04 PM

Well, it's fairly self explantory

Anyone know how far out the block can go? And are there any detailed engine specs for an EL i6 blocks flowing around? Cheers

Poetic Justice · 19-03-2006, 02:09 PM

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ghlight=stroke

Read!

volcom20 · 19-03-2006, 02:21 PM

Hmm, thanks, it's a very negitive artical, but still, I plan on taking it to a 4.2

Because I'm limited to a 6cyl for the next 3 years of my licence (NSW and thier ******* laws) and I can't turbo.

Boring and new pistons is cheap compaired to headwork :P Plus this engine will have all the headwork goodies on it at the end.

All I want is the quickest 6 cyl N/A car in town, as that's what all my friends will be limited to as well.

Internal mods are the only ones I can get away with the police too, because we're also not allowed to have proformance mods (Wtf, I hate my state lol). But I'm going to do it anyway.

So hopefully I can get away with a bored i6 and heads.

cheers

Poetic Justice · 19-03-2006, 02:46 PM

So if you're banned from turbo and 8 cylinder, how long do you think you'll have the quickest n/a 6 cyl in town?

;)

stockstandard · 19-03-2006, 03:22 PM

There really is bugger all gains to be had by boring it out - certainly nothing your going to notice.

Headwork and cam on the other hand will give good gains. What sort of quotes did you get for headwork? You should be able to get a reasonable amount of work done for $400-$500, but you will want a big cam to use the extra flow. Then youll probably want to get it retuned as well.

BTW: my block is out 40thou which is fine (wasnt taken out for performance though)

volcom20 · 19-03-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackout

So if you're banned from turbo and 8 cylinder, how long do you think you'll have the quickest n/a 6 cyl in town?

;)

Quite sometime :P For atleast 12 months until a rich kid gets his licence :P Most of the current kids my age drive to get from A to B, then there's a small percentage whom are Holden kids and rag on ford etc, so I really just wanna show them how it's done, and completely thrash thier 6cyl *** (which I could prolly do stock, but there's no pride in that, unlike kicking a 5liter holden in the ***

) And considering I've started with the biggest 6cyl around for the moment, I believe it's very posible to keep it that way

(Unlike all my friends who've fallen into the "holden" craze....)

But anyway, I can rake enough cash for both the bottem end and the heads, I feel like it's just cutting corners to leave the bottem untouched, as with a worked head together with the bottem end, should give me a nice engine.

From what I've figured, I'm aiming to bore it 60 thou. Getting a quote on tuesday

Also, what did you pay for those 40thou oversized pistons? I've been looking around, but been a bit lazy on quotes. Roughly 60 - 100 dollars I'm hoping it'll be per piston.

stiddy · 20-03-2006, 12:31 AM

ACL 40-60 thou over pistons are around the $600 mark, I wouldnt go more than 60thou over..

toby123 · 20-03-2006, 03:33 AM

You should never bore out a engine for cubic inch reasons.... as said before you wont notice any gains from it.

Psycho Chicken · 20-03-2006, 11:36 AM

Why are you asking for advice when it's clear you've already made your mind up?

The money would be much better spent in the exhaust or head. The only reason to bore the engine out is if the bores are too worn. You will not notice the .2 of a litre at all.

mcflux · 20-03-2006, 11:53 AM

Maybe he wants to slap 253 badges on it :P

volcom20 · 20-03-2006, 12:03 PM

I'm asking for advice on boring it out, not "Should I bore it out" :P

If liters didn't mean a thing, we'd be running 2.2 6 cyl ricers because they're so fantastic :P

So 40 - 60 thou = 600 dollars for all 6 pistons?

stockstandard · 20-03-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volcom20

If liters didn't mean a thing, we'd be running 2.2 6 cyl ricers because they're so fantastic :P

Litres mean something, a fraction of a litre doesnt do much at all. Certainly not enough to justify the cost and effort.

think about it - increasing the capacity will mean the engine is going to try to draw is slightly more air, but this is through the same head/cam combination that is limiting the flow at factory capacity. You are better of getting the engine to use the capacity it has more efficiently to get more power than trying to get power by increasing the capacity.

Not the case for all engines, but is certainly true for a 4.0L I6

mcflux · 20-03-2006, 12:16 PM

Boring out: if something happens and a bore gets scored, you might not be able to re-oversize them (or sleeve the offending bore) and will be up for a new block!

NEG · 20-03-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volcom20

I'm asking for advice on boring it out, not "Should I bore it out" :P

If liters didn't mean a thing, we'd be running 2.2 6 cyl ricers because they're so fantastic :P

So 40 - 60 thou = 600 dollars for all 6 pistons?

do you mean like the 2.4litre V8 F1 motors making over 750bhp?

complete waste of good money and time. get head work and a new cam. its all internal and no one will ever know and ull get much more power for the same money.

stiddy · 20-03-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volcom20

So 40 - 60 thou = 600 dollars for all 6 pistons?

thats about right, but there is more to it then just buying 6 pistons and dropping them in..
you'll need more $$$ for rings, bearings, balancing, rods/rod bolts, machine work..

Its not as cheap as you think it will be, for the same money like most guys have stated, a good exhaust/cam/headwork which for the same money you can do will give heaps better results.

BOOSTDEF · 20-03-2006, 02:05 PM

4 litres is plenty in a 6...

if you wanna go quick with an NA setup, go a 5 speed and get some 3.7 or 3.9 diff gears.

as said, SFA gains boring a 4litre.

Psycho Chicken · 20-03-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volcom20

I'm asking for advice on boring it out, not "Should I bore it out" :P

And we're giving you advice.

The cost of getting the bottom end rebuilt is way too high to warrant it. Pistons, $600, rings/bearing/gaskets will probably run to $400, balancing probably won't see you much change from $300, labour on getting it all done will easily set you back $1000. though probably more.

That right there is $2300, which would see an aftermarket ECU fitted and tuned, which would give a hell of a lot more performance gain. Not to mention stronger cylinder walls.

He's not around much anymore, but go look up info on Thanatos' car. If you look at the stickied dyno results thread you'll see his car is second in the I6 dyno results (and we don't have any specs on the first car). He's been getting a crapload of power out of it for a long time. Guess what? It's still got a 3.9 bottom end.

BENT_8 · 20-03-2006, 05:09 PM

For the money all that boring and stroking is gonna cost u could proberbly buy a low Km BA motor with 182Kw stock and work it in and we all know the turbo capabilities of those 4.0 bottom ends

FRDXR6 · 20-03-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOOSTDEF

4 litres is plenty in a 6...

if you wanna go quick with an NA setup, go a 5 speed and get some 3.7 or 3.9 diff gears.

as said, SFA gains boring a 4litre.

Couldn't agree more. Spending $2k on a 5spd conversion and chucking 3.7 or 3.9 gears in a LSD, will easily make the car MUCH more quicker than an auto with 3.08/45 and worked bottom end.

Like others have said its not the bottom end thats restricting flow and power in the 4L its the head and exhaust side which need to be worked on if you want to see any results.

Basically you are wanting to know how to make your car the quickest n/a you can, but you wont listen to thier advice!

snortingboost · 20-03-2006, 06:21 PM

The more you bore the weaker the cylinder wall becomes and along with this comes blowby. In other words, going past 20 thou is going to actually lose power due to the cylinder flexing. It's possible to flex a block with your bare hands in most situations ie cast iron production i6 block. Grab yourself a bore mic and put it between the cylinder walls and try it. Either way you should only bore out if it's necessary, not to add power. Fast cars have diff gears, head work, good cams and a good tune not 60thou over pistons.

volcom20 · 20-03-2006, 07:15 PM

*Sighs*...

Bottem end is combined with heads.

I'm not working a bottem end and leaving the top half stock. The whole head'll be worked, or it'll get a aftermarket one...

Lets just say I'm not really limited to money, and I'm out to build the quickest engine I can. It's not like I'm after bang for buck here, because I'll do the heads, get my bang for buck, then have a fully worked bottem end to run with it.

Money is no objecy when it comes to my car, lol, I'm not worried about spending a lot and getting hardly anything, because I have the budget to do the heads, put a manual in, bore it and put a quick diff in. Plus all the other little extras like custom air intake, ECU, etc etc.

I'm not asking how to "Make my car fast on a budget" :P

Anyway, thanks for the opinions, but I'm not really sure anyone here knows where I'm coming from.

Cheers guys, I thank you for your opinions, but I'll be leaving these threads alone until I have a dyno chart for ya'll.

stiddy · 20-03-2006, 10:39 PM

I see where your coming from, but you didnt say that you had mass amounts of cash to spend and your final goal with what you wanted to do with this motor.
But what you want to do is what Mark from It's Performance does with his engine packages..
He's made 194rwkw(so he's told me) with a full worked motor, top and bottom end, his bottom end is 40thou over.. for something like that though you would want to have around the $7k+ to spend on it.
If your going to do all this, plus have it tuned with a good EMS, exhaust/intake, manual and diff gears it will make for a weapon of a car..

NEG · 21-03-2006, 01:20 AM

ok well if your doing the whole lot that makes more sense but I still wouldnt bore it out for all of the above reason. just get forged high compresion pistons and crank if u realy want to. Like snortingboost said you dont want to weaken your block/ bottom end make it stronger. good luck.

toby123 · 21-03-2006, 02:49 AM

...........

volcom20 · 21-03-2006, 09:51 AM

Cheers guys, I'll look up "It's Proformance"

And give them a ring about what they can do for me.

Sorry for the confusion! But yes, I am trying to make a weapon out of an EF :P

Thanks

stiddy · 21-03-2006, 11:32 AM

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=104 <-- Its Performance thread.

TUFED6 · 21-03-2006, 11:47 AM

You say that you want to go nuts on the internals, but keep the under bonnet looking stock?

I'm thinking you could have a tough time, I don't think any of the OE Ford manifolds are going to be much help to you. And as soon as you change them it will be obvious that the motor is modified.

I suppose you could try to hide the extractors under the factory heat shield.

Don't bore the motor out much further than .040. You want the cylinder rigidity.

- John