How Holden Was MURDERED

[DFB FGXR6]

A lot of what is presented in this video I have thought for years. The way GM sacrificed divisions of the company outside of the USA to prop up their own deficiencies is pathetically bad business management, in fact its shameful. Instead of the US perhaps learning from the success of the overseas markets, they exploited them instead......................classic lazy American tendencies.

"When an overseas division becomes profitable, it gets systematically drained to help Detroit and send more money to shareholders. They are not allowed to invest their own profits in updating factories and developing new models. And they can't keep them in a war chest, instead they are promised that GM itself will serve as their war chest, the problem is, the keys to this war chest remain in Detroit."

There is also some damming info about how Holden had to pay GM to use the VE's Zeta platform that THEY designed and engineered at their own cost. Again, instead of GM working as a united team, they were self-sabotaging. Then there was GM insisting Holden use its profits to bail out GM-DAT, effectively Daewoo, to the tune of $251-million! THAT is why Holden dropped all of the quality Opel models for the stream of woeful rebadged Korean vehicles like the Daewoo Kalos-based Barina, the woeful Epica, the Viva.................



The same applies to Ford Australia, there was never a desire to make products here, it was all about diverting government funding back to Detroit. Who remembers the EcoBoost Falcon, which including their own money was a co-investment with both federal and Victorian governments to the tune of $42-million dollars.

“We greatly appreciate the assistance of the Australian and Victorian governments towards the development of Falcon EcoBoost.

I'm sorry, but importing an engine and putting it into an existing platform did NOT cost what Ford said it did. Yes, crash testing a different frontal footprint is expensive, but not that expensive. The development cost of the EcoBoost was heavily inflated and ensured Ford Detroit enjoyed the bonus cash flow.

Be it Ford or Holden, there were multiple grave diggers that led to the death of locally made cars. But the fact that Ford and GM themselves played a role in digging that grave, well it's almost unbelievable.

[Syndrome]

Step 1 of the murder occurred on 22nd May 2013.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Step 1 of the murder occurred on 23rd May 2013.

No, it had been going on long before that, for both Ford and Holden.

When it comes to Ford, I believe the decision was made in 2009/2010 when Ford announced the reprieve for the Geelong engine plant and 4.0 inline 6. In 2007, it was announced the Falcon would switch to an imported V6 engine to save on development costs and bring Falcon into a modern era of powertrains. To renege on that plan, as well as the cancellation of the locally made Focus, well that clearly shows Ford saw no future beyond the FG and SY/SZ. So, while everyone was rejoicing that the Barra would continue on, it was a nice distraction as to what was actually happening.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

No, it had been going on long before that, for both Ford and Holden. When it comes to Ford, I believe the decision was made in 2009/2010 when Ford announced the reprieve for the Geelong engine plant and 4.0 inline 6. In 2007, it was announced the Falcon would switch to an imported V6 engine to save on development costs and bring Falcon into a modern era of powertrains. To renege on that plan, as well as the cancellation of the locally made Focus, well that clearly shows Ford saw no future beyond the FG and SY/SZ. So, while everyone was rejoicing that the Barra would continue on, it was a nice distraction as to what was actually happening.

The trouble started in 1984 with the release of the Button Plan.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The trouble started in 1984 with the release of the Button Plan.

Go back even further to the Lima Declaration.
The slow transfer of industry to developing nations to help them grow.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by smoo

Go back even further to the Lima Declaration. The slow transfer of industry to developing nations to help them grow.

Hence Trump's actions to reverse some of this.

[DFB FGXR6]

The video centers around how GM internally sabotaged Holden, multiple times spread over many decades, but especially from the mid 2000's. To me, this is not related to US politics. And even when local politics enters the equation, the cessation of governmental funding was just a convenient moment to pull the plug after a carefully orchestrated murder plot.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

THAT is why Holden dropped all of the quality Opel models for the stream of woeful rebadged Korean vehicles like the Daewoo Kalos-based Barina, the woeful Epica, the Viva.................

Having worked for GM at the time, believe me, the opel sourced products may have been a better finished product than the Daewoo product, but by the time the warranty period was over...... wooooooo boy did you ever need to get rid of that Opel!

Originally Posted by smoo

Go back even further to the Lima Declaration.
The slow transfer of industry to developing nations to help them grow.

And nearly half a century down the track, its still screwing over the developed countries to the benefit of countries still stuck in the dark ages.

Gotta love bleating heart do-gooders

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

H but by the time the warranty period was over...... wooooooo boy did you ever need to get rid of that ****

**** You could just about insert any Euro Badged Car.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

No, it had been going on long before that, for both Ford and Holden.

When it comes to Ford, I believe the decision was made in 2009/2010 when Ford announced the reprieve for the Geelong engine plant and 4.0 inline 6. In 2007, it was announced the Falcon would switch to an imported V6 engine to save on development costs and bring Falcon into a modern era of powertrains. To renege on that plan, as well as the cancellation of the locally made Focus, well that clearly shows Ford saw no future beyond the FG and SY/SZ. So, while everyone was rejoicing that the Barra would continue on, it was a nice distraction as to what was actually happening.

As soon as Ford hatched plans for AUS Focus production, the Asian countries threatened to
place tariffs on it or just refuse to permit its sale, they wanted production in Thailand.
So Ford had a choice, give back the $30 million or get the Barra Euro 4 compliant
which ended up costing $20 million thanks to borrowing the Emissions program software for T6.
And yes, FG was seen as the last product cycle - max 8 years as Ford wouldn’t authorise Euro 6 work.

Few people know that Holden also started the Sigma global large car project back in 1998
but GM wanted that prioritised to Cadillac as a line of luxury sedans but narrower width
than wat Holden needed for Commodore and Statesman, so they gave in and did as asked
and kept refreshing the V car platform - that’s why it looked so bloody dated by mid 2000s

ever since the late 1990s, GM started messing Holden around and kept putting conditions
on all the ED financial applications and the moment Holden started development on Zeta,
GM started changing the goalposts, make it bigger heavier to also cover Taverse replacement
that would never happen, or do this or that for Buick versions or Pontiac this and then cancel
because of changes to CAFE fuel economy regulations…..what a mess.

Honestly, Ford did the kinder thing freezing out Falcon/Fairlane from Middle East contracts.
At least the Ford execs were straight up about confining Aussie products without false hope.

Holden also did a lot of quirky things with Zeta supply change, supporting a lot of local cottage industries.
I can’t help thinking that innovative can do work around sort of irked the GM chiefs when it came to
supplying sufficient parts to North American production plants.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

**** You could just about insert any Euro Badged Car.

I was keeping it on topic re: opel.


Its funny y'know, we cant survive without global scale of operations, but eventually we end up paying the price to offshore money.

Damned if we dont, damned when we do.

[Citroënbender]

I don’t think Aussies over the last 30 years are so resolute or stalwart as they imagine. Fawning over anything imported is an integral part of why big manufacturers played us and the government for fools.

Holden surged ahead of Ford with the VE vs Falcon but failed to consolidate their gains.

[lra]

After 10 years, enthusiasts are now waking up to the idea that Joe Hockey didn't kill Holden and the Australian car industry.
Both GM and Ford would have kept bleeding the Aus Govt, ie taxpayer, for as much subsidy as they could, for too long, to inflate the profits for shareholder in the USA.
As it was, if the Govt had agreed to the further GM greediness, Holden would have only survived until 2022, on the updated VF, and imported stuff that nobody wanted.
Extending local production was never part of the big plan.
GM after the GFC was no longer a car company, it was a business to extract as much profit from outside sources as possible. And it started well before the GFC, which was the good excuse.
But nobody wanted to see it that way ........... just blame Joe Hockey and the Liberal Govt of the day.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I don’t think Aussies over the last 30 years are so resolute or stalwart as they imagine. Fawning over anything imported is an integral part of why big manufacturers played us and the government for fools.

Holden surged ahead of Ford with the VE vs Falcon but failed to consolidate their gains.

As an import myself I'll never understand the Australian cultural cringe; in so many ways, what we have here is the world class and they shun it. In terms of cars this was fullsize, safe, simple, reliable, durable family cars that were very affordable for working families - and incredibly affordable as 2-3yo ex-fleet.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Hence Trump's actions to reverse some of this.

Yep, if the working class in developed nations over the last 50 years actually got into power, well it has and the anger and urge to fix the globalism fallout they suffered looks exactly like this.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The video centers around how GM internally sabotaged Holden, multiple times spread over many decades, but especially from the mid 2000's. To me, this is not related to US politics. And even when local politics enters the equation, the cessation of governmental funding was just a convenient moment to pull the plug after a carefully orchestrated murder plot.

And this is why it is so important that the next time Australia builds vehicles, it MUST be patriotically Australian owned.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by lra

After 10 years, enthusiasts are now waking up to the idea that Joe Hockey didn't kill Holden and the Australian car industry.
Both GM and Ford would have kept bleeding the Aus Govt, ie taxpayer, for as much subsidy as they could, for too long, to inflate the profits for shareholder in the USA.
As it was, if the Govt had agreed to the further GM greediness, Holden would have only survived until 2022, on the updated VF, and imported stuff that nobody wanted.
Extending local production was never part of the big plan.
GM after the GFC was no longer a car company, it was a business to extract as much profit from outside sources as possible. And it started well before the GFC, which was the good excuse.
But nobody wanted to see it that way ........... just blame Joe Hockey and the Liberal Govt of the day.

Thanks Ira, the most confounding or is that compelling part of history was Holden’s plurality of comments
A report in the Wall Street Journal noted GM’s intention to pull out of Australia while at the same time
Holden’s rep said to Hockey and co that no decision had been made….

Hockey noted that over $1 billion in assistance had been earmarked for beyond 2015, so he called
them to declare whether they go or stay and actually dared them to go…..

If it came down to the fact that the $1 billion in assistance ready to sign was not going to be enough,
then clearly, Ford’s decision to exit with even less assistance offered makes perfect sense.
I think head office was keen to kill Holden after PSA showed no interest in acquiring it
as part of the sale of Opel Vauxhall brands in Europe, you could see this coming a mile off…

[lra]

A Belgian named Guido Dumarey wanted to buy Holden back in 2015, continue the building of the VF and new smaller cars.
Apparently, he owned plants which made parts ( transmissions etc ) for GM vehicles, and it looked good, for a while.
His meeting with GM execs in the USA where he put his proposal was reported as lasting 5 minutes.
Perhaps he was told "No. Drop the plan or you will lose your contracts"

Comments in that video failed to show anything about the 'new' Torana, the Coupe60 / VE Monaro which was proposed as the 'new' Camaro, and the Nullabor SUV, all of which never got approved.
There was also a sub-Torana-sized RWD small car concept that appeared and disappeared very quickly.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think head office was keen to kill Holden after PSA showed no interest in acquiring it
as part of the sale of Opel Vauxhall brands in Europe, you could see this coming a mile off…

Yep...............

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

And this is why it is so important that the next time Australia builds vehicles, it MUST be patriotically Australian owned.

Well, the closest thing to an Aussie car these days is Ranger..............an American-owned company making these vehicles $4.50 in Thailand and sold at absurd markups to us "dumb" Aussies (Don't take that as an insult from me, this is the impression I get from conversing with the yanks on a frequent basis, we are seen as hopefless fools).

And the next closest thing is the oversized American pickups that actually tow less than a Ranger. Go figure.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

And this is why it is so important that the next time Australia builds vehicles, it MUST be patriotically Australian owned.

We do not have any patriotism in a country full of dual and triple citizens now.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

We do not have any patriotism in a country full of dual and triple citizens now.

The funny thing is, most Aussies think they are patriotic, but are oblivious to the fact they actually aren't.

If there is one thing the yanks do better than us, its bringing up their children with a STRONG patriotic nature. It's almost like a cult in how its drummed into them.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The funny thing is, most Aussies think they are patriotic, but are oblivious to the fact they actually aren't.

If there is one thing the yanks do better than us, its bringing up their children with a STRONG patriotic nature. It's almost like a cult in how its drummed into them.

No they aren't if they have a vested interest in other countries.
Some actually are and we did used to bring up children with a patriotic nature.

I would love to see countries ditch the dual citizenship like Japan, Austria, India and Norway

For most here these days it a flag of convenience when it suits.

[Sprintey]

It's funny, many of us come from another place and can draw on that background, all the strengths and the weaknesses, but we are here in Australia right now and the country has been hollowed out in it's ability to produce real things, it's been weakened and we can see this as the world changes and goes back to old fashioned great power rivalry and we have an economy that relies on stuff being delivered from offshore.

On my Aussie side a family member fought at Kokoda, Milne Bay and in the Solomons (very similar geopolitically today to 1931-42), it's possible to take the patriotism from more than one source. These areas were really important as the IJN and IJA were trying to break the supply route from San Fran/Pearl/Brisbane and knock Australia out of that particular war.

For tomorrow: Lest we forget.

[Sprintey]

Back on topic, the corporate strategy and siphoning should see that this company is never allowed to own any automotive subsidiary in Australia ever again.

(Pretty sure the motor in the ED XR8 Sprint, prepared by Watson Engineering in Michigan and costing $$$$ is an example of transfer pricing. It goes! So there's that.)

[EBSXR6]

I remember reading when Peter Hanenberger was running GMH, the idea of relaunching the Torana nameplate as a luxury car to go against 3 Series, C Class etc was one idea to keep GMH going.
It would have been interesting which drivetrain they were planning on using.

[lra]

2004 Torana >

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...-classic-motor

Saw it at the Sydney Motor Show. My eyes have never been the same since due to colour and interior.

[jpd80]

The fact that GM execs allowed the company to to go bankrupt and accepted a bailout from
the US government tells you all you need to know about who was controlling Holden’s fate.

GM even had the temerity to visit Ford and want to take control of its $30 billion cash
as part of a joint effort to save both companies….GM would of course control the cash.
Bill Ford politely told them no thanks and they left

[Interceptor]

It makes me wonder exactly how different the scenery would be if when the government handed out millions and billions in bail-outs and subsidies, full accountability was required as to where the money was going and what it was being used for.

But then again, for any government to ask that would require a certain level of hypocrisy.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

It makes me wonder exactly how different the scenery would be if when the government handed out millions and billions in bail-outs and subsidies, full accountability was required as to where the money was going and what it was being used for.

But then again, for any government to ask that would require a certain level of hypocrisy.

It wasn’t like that with GM bail out, there were no recriminations and in fact,
it was more like giving a drunk a wash, a shave and a full wallet to go play.
They didn’t even have to pay back any of the $10 billion given to them in escrow.
And, all the losses left behind with the old bankrupt version of GM could be claimed
as tax deductions by New GM for years after…….zero need to kill off Holden.

In case anyone is wondering, Ford didn’t need a bail out from the US government,
they instead were given access to to low interest Department of Energy loans that were
paid back in full with interest.