How Holden Was MURDERED

[MFL]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Your story is but the tip of the iceberg b0son, but that's for another thread

Originally Posted by b0son

They know how, they just don't need to, because nobody cares enough to do anything about it. The certifiers who are supposed to be independent and engaged by the buyer (not the builder), almost always come recommended by the builder so as not to 'slow down the process'. , . But did they investigate any of the trades that did that non-compliant work? .......

and if you happen to be a public servant who does care, its a quick way to become an ex-public servant. (story for another thread)

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Exactly what happened to us. Mum's family always had Holdens and when she returned (with us! and Dad) from Europe I remember the back seat of the XD wagon as one of my first car memories here. My wife's family who were farmers switched from FJ through to HZs to XD-E-F and then EA EB AU... Many sales there...

In his case, there was no XD Fairmont Ghia wagon at the time of purchase in 79. (was there ever a Ghia wagon ??)

It was very early shortly after the XD release and he had already sold the HZ wagon to me as my first car.

[swamp]

hi
Holden was stabbed in the back by GM financially

If that was not bad enough
GM usa had fingers in the majority of Australian designs that were at best mediocre . .
If u look into each models design and read enough there are common themes .
Unfortunately GM forced Holden to produce econo boxes . VN commodore and prior .
If you think GM Asia /Europe was positive think again
When Holden designers were given free hand Holden designs were good . Did not happen enough

Racing take a minute to understand why HQ full size vehicles were not developed properly for racing or even for every day use .
Economics were behind the Torana 6cyl selection but amazing enough the v8 in later Toranas made a come back . More by accident than intent .

The Commodore was going to be a WA or WB Statesman bodies and rebadged . Holden did develop these vehicles into road going examples .
The Hq 2dr was gong to be developed into a cross with ""commodore " ie featureless with WB statesman body influences .
All this was absolutely crushed

The Holden V8 had some outstanding design released in 1986 . Upgrades designed years before . Well before the GM usa chevy LS motor . Yet the Holden had many of its features . The next gen Holden V8 would have been interesting .

In many cases the export Holdens had far less restrictions . Some markets received mostly chev 6cyl and v8Ozzy Holden and Ford killed the golden goose

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

(was there ever a Ghia wagon ??)

Yep, From I believe from XD to ED, i've seen examples of XF and EB..... really regret not buying the EBII I was offered, black, V8, sunroof, full leather.....

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Yep, From I believe from XD to ED, i've seen examples of XF and EB..... really regret not buying the EBII I was offered, black, V8, sunroof, full leather.....

back in the ol Tickford/FPV days held at Ford dealers ie Brad Garlicks.
I was gizzzing over the Herrod AU Fairmont Ghia V8 Black wagon.
I saw it arrive on a table top covered in glad wrap haha
It looked absolutely dynamite !
Here's similar in sedan - how friggin good.
https://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/a_1511/article

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Yep, From I believe from XD to ED, i've seen examples of XF and EB..... really regret not buying the EBII I was offered, black, V8, sunroof, full leather.....

I believe the 1st Fairmont Ghia wagon was released for the Oct-86 XF update & the last (as you say) was EBII.

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Yep, From I believe from XD to ED, i've seen examples of XF and EB..... really regret not buying the EBII I was offered, black, V8, sunroof, full leather.....

XD Ghia wagon ????

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FTE217

back in the ol Tickford/FPV days held at Ford dealers ie Brad Garlicks.
I was gizzzing over the Herrod AU Fairmont Ghia V8 Black wagon.
I saw it arrive on a table top covered in glad wrap haha
It looked absolutely dynamite !
Here's similar in sedan - how friggin good.
https://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/a_1511/article

You know, I've always had a thing for the AU Fairmont Wagon (there was no Ghia in the AU series). I don't normally like black, but I'd have one in Silhouette with Tickford wheels and the optional V8 engine and sports suspension. Surely a rare combo.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by swamp

hi
Holden was stabbed in the back by GM financially

If that was not bad enough
GM usa had fingers in the majority of Australian designs that were at best mediocre . .
If u look into each models design and read enough there are common themes .
Unfortunately GM forced Holden to produce econo boxes . VN commodore and prior .
If you think GM Asia /Europe was positive think again
When Holden designers were given free hand Holden designs were good . Did not happen enough

Racing take a minute to understand why HQ full size vehicles were not developed properly for racing or even for every day use .
Economics were behind the Torana 6cyl selection but amazing enough the v8 in later Toranas made a come back . More by accident than intent .

The Commodore was going to be a WA or WB Statesman bodies and rebadged . Holden did develop these vehicles into road going examples .
The Hq 2dr was gong to be developed into a cross with ""commodore " ie featureless with WB statesman body influences .
All this was absolutely crushed

The Holden V8 had some outstanding design released in 1986 . Upgrades designed years before . Well before the GM usa chevy LS motor . Yet the Holden had many of its features . The next gen Holden V8 would have been interesting .

In many cases the export Holdens had far less restrictions . Some markets received mostly chev 6cyl and v8Ozzy Holden and Ford killed the golden goose

The HQ - HJ 2 door coupe bodies were all used up. 600 left for it's final swan song, the beautiful HX LE Monaro.

As for WB Statesman, it did have Commodore European influences in the squared off rear passenger roof area including the extra rear quarter windows.

To me the big one that got away was the WB Sandman van.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

You know, I've always had a thing for the AU Fairmont Wagon (there was no Ghia in the AU series). I don't normally like black, but I'd have one in Silhouette with Tickford wheels and the optional V8 engine and sports suspension. Surely a rare combo.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18564400/
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18720689/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(AU)

DFB think there was Ghia through to AU11 my friend.
I know my eyes seeing that Herrod one off wasn't decieving me.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FTE217

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18564400/
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18720689/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(AU)

DFB think there was Ghia through to AU11 my friend.
I know my eyes seeing that Herrod one off wasn't decieving me.

Ghia Wagon

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by FTE217

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18564400/
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...E-AD-18720689/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(AU)

DFB think there was Ghia through to AU11 my friend.
I know my eyes seeing that Herrod one off wasn't decieving me.

There was no AU, AU II or AU III Fairmont Ghia wagon, perhaps I got my wires crossed?

https://www.fordforums.com.au/photos...y.php/cat/2405
https://www.fordforums.com.au/photos...y.php/cat/2402

[bb_zetec]

Ive Owned a few GM Cars, A VL Calais, a VE SSV Wagon and a VFII SV6 Wagon.


The Cars in their own right were built for Australian Conditions, yes the VL was unreliable, but most 80s Cars built here had quality problems, even the locally built Toyota and Chrysler/Mitsubishi.

I found dealing with GM/Holden Dealers to be a terrible experience, and i suspect now that the dealers themselves were under constant pressure from GM to cut costs and give away all their money back to the mothership made things the way they were, customers were not their priority...and they never were.

A lot of Manufacturing has gone from this country, and most similarly divert profits back to their parents offshore for Tax minimisation amongst other things.

They "borrow" money from their Parent for R/D etc... then have to pay back the loan from their profits...they are in the Red on Paper.

Aust Government did subsidise the industry, but do did the UK, the Germans etc...to keep them open and have some sort of manufacturing presence.

It may have been different in the 50/60s/70s, but late 70s>80s Corporate Greed was the beginning of the end.

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi Guys,
We did have a great car industry in Australia Once now of course its all gone. In December 2008 President Bush bailout out General Motors and Chrysler $13,4 Billion dollars.

Chrysler in America closed down the Adelaide plant saying sales were down and they wanted to restructuring its operations.
They (General Motors in the states) said Production costs including wages too high. small Domestic Market also.

The first Holden rolled off the production line in 1948. Holden was our top selling car for 15 years so we must have been doing something right.

Ford was a little later The first Ford Falcon was launched in 1960. Like Gemeral Motors and Ford Australia they were told what to do from there Bosses overseas.

We cant reverse the clock but how did something that was good go so bad so quick?

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

We cant reverse the clock but how did something that was good go so bad so quick?

Unions & corporate greed

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Unions & corporate greed

Haha isn’t it ironic unions are in the best position since those heydays the millennials have no idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Haha isn’t it ironic unions are in the best position since those heydays the millennials have no idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not disputing that unions have a valuable presence in workers lives, but when you get to a situation where the workers are getting paid more than the average wage for what is often low skilled labour, it has a detrimental effect on business.

[FTE217]

True true they have a task looking after workers and not just salaries.
The rouge leaders preaching the attitude influencing a us vs employers has been a terrible cancer as well.
I get the early early days the pioneer factory owners etc exploited workers but that changed so long ago.
Unions with the Gov killed local manufacturing and I’ll never forgive them for that.
Govs change come and go but their mindset in certain industries haven’t infact worse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

Chrysler in America closed down the Adelaide plant saying sales were down and they wanted to restructuring its operations.

Chrysler didn't close the Adelaide plant, they sold he whole operation to Mitsubishi in 1980 & they ran it until 2008, when Mitsubishi shut it down.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

The first Holden rolled off the production line in 1948. Holden was our top selling car for 15 years so we must have been doing something right.

For the 69 years Holden was made here, it was top seller for nearly 50 of those years.

Dr Terry